PE Summit vs. Alderlea T6 vs. Enerzone 3.4 vs. Jotul F600 FL vs. Jotul Carrabassett

[scooby074]

Like the title says, those are the stoves Im trying to choose between to replace my undersized Napoleon 1450i, in my 1700sqft hilltop, window filled, single floor ranch home.

The Napoleon just doesnt have the oomph and the firebox is too small to have long burns.

Right now, the Summit Classic is my #1 choice, mostly due to a close friend who has been burning one for about 3 years now and loves it.

The Alderlea is #2, but im not sure the added cost of the cast iron cover is worth it.

The F600 and Carrabassett are a little lower, mostly due to the lesser warranty, and the fact that CI stoves will require more maintenance over their life with necessary re-sealing.

The Enerzone, is a new product around here. They seem to be offering alot for the money (included blower) and look to make a lot of heat with their built in heat exchanger. I understand they are made by the same company that makes Osburn (dad has an Osburn, and its been very good to him). Issue for me is that it looks a bit crude compared to the PE and they are new. What is the country of origin on the Enerzone, at $2000 it seems like a bargain if it is made here.

Are these stoves easy to clean? How about removing the baffles? Im re-doing my flue soon and will be removing my cleanout T. This means that I will have to go through the stove, so being able to easily access the fluepipe is essential.

Suggestions? One thing against the PE right now is that they aren't offering a "free" blower. That would add about $200 to the price.

 

[Mike M.]

I have the Nap 1450 and push it hard to heat my home. I also have many large windows. Last night it was really cold and windy here (in WI) and the stove could not keep up at about 4 in the morning. I loaded it full at 9:30. So I guess I have the same issue that you have. So other than burn times, what are your problems with this stove? My issue is coal build up. I have been looking at the Summit as well. The 1450 can hold its own if the temps are in the teens but after that it struggles. Have you looked at the Nap 1900?

 

[FyreBug]

All the brands you are looking at are good. I work for SBI / Enerzone. I dont want to bias you so I'll just mention some of the specs...

First of all Enerzone is not a new brand been around for a while. Specs for 3.4 Plate top steel 3/8", Warranty on secondary tubes lifetime, Warranty on glass lifetime even if the kids break it playing ball. 3.4 cu ft combustion chamber. Weights 550Lbs and is Enerzone best seller. Made in Canada.

One of the user on this site fsappo has one and burn one. You might want to ask him.

 

[scooby074]

I have the Nap 1450 and push it hard to heat my home. I also have many large windows. Last night it was really cold and windy here (in WI) and the stove could not keep up at about 4 in the morning. I loaded it full at 9:30. So I guess I have the same issue that you have. So other than burn times, what are your problems with this stove? My issue is coal build up. I have been looking at the Summit as well. The 1450 can hold its own if the temps are in the teens but after that it struggles. Have you looked at the Nap 1900?

I build coals too.

Main issue is it just doesnt throw the heat like I think it should. About the only area that is truly comfortable is a 15' circle around the stove!! Kids rooms are cold, even with aux fans to move the air. I'm talking like 16*c in the morning I bought the factory blower for $200 and that made NO difference at all. The stove has no real "shell" outside the firebox to catch the heat and warm the air before expelling it into the room.

Another thing is the baffles. Im on the second set, which in fairness have done 2 years now. But what rubbed me wrong was Napoleon's response that there was no defect in the first set and I had to pay for set #2. That was $100. The second set is easily twice as thick as the first set, so there obviously were issues with the first design. Because of their previous response, and a few other "quality" issues with the stove (rattling back plate, hinge pins that wont stay in, inconsistent damper) I wont consider another Napoleon product.

In a perfect world with perfect wood, it may heat its rated square footage, but in the real world, with real drafts and not perfect wood it falls flat.

My buddy heats his 2000sqft, 2 story house with WET poplar, using his Summit. His ash is dry and powdery too.I know what the Summit can do.

 

[scooby074]

All the brands you are looking at are good. I work for SBI / Enerzone. I dont want to bias you so I'll just mention some of the specs...

First of all Enerzone is not a new brand been around for a while. Specs for 3.4 Plate top steel 3/8", Warranty on secondary tubes lifetime, Warranty on glass lifetime even if the kids break it playing ball. 3.4 cu ft combustion chamber. Weights 550Lbs and is Enerzone best seller. Made in Canada.

One of the user on this site fsappo has one and burn one. You might want to ask him.

I should have said "new here". While Osburn has been here "forever" the first Enerzone I saw in any store was last year.

Bearing in mind you work for SBI, how would you rank Enerzone on my list (dont worry, I'll take it with a grain of salt ). How well does the Enerzone throw heat compared to the others?

One question, are their tubes that go completely through the firebox to the outside? If so, does the fan blow through them?

 

[remkel]

Well, been running the F600 for a couple of seasons now.....now that I have the hang of running this little lady, I have to say she treats me very well.

 

[begreen]

In order to answer the question we need to know a bit more about why the current stove is not up to snuff. How much area are you trying to heat? Do you want a more radiant stove? Are clearances an issue?

In the stoves listed you didn't mention the Napoleon 1900. It should be in with the 3 cu ft contenders. Good heater too.

 

[scooby074]

Area Im heating is about 1700 sq ft. One floor. Concrete slab, open concept, "ranch" style. Top of hill. A fair bit of wind. Picture windows in all "public" rooms (LD, DR, Kitchen).

No clearance issues.

Current 1450 does make heat, just not near enough. For example, right now, outside temp is -15.6*C, bedrooms are ~+19*C (fan is blowing warm air from LR to BR, without that fan, the BR's drop to 16*C) , and living room where the stove is, is only 18*C. Dining room (at far end of the house) is only 16*C. I'm 3 years with this stove, and the family is getting tired of being cold.

Current Stove top temp is 475*F. Stove pipe is 375*F.

Wood is mixed hardwoods. A 50-50 mix of year old + CSS and stuff CSS this fall. I tried running a few loads of 100% "dry" year old wood (approx 20% MC) and it made no difference.

Im looking at other brands because Ive really havent been impressed by Napoleon's customer service nor their build quality.

 

[begreen]

Area Im heating is about 1700 sq ft. One floor. Concrete slab, open concept, "ranch" style. Top of hill. A fair bit of wind. Picture windows in all "public" rooms (LD, DR, Kitchen).

No clearance issues.

Current 1450 does make heat, just not near enough. For example, right now, outside temp is -15.6*C, bedrooms are ~+19*C (fan is blowing warm air from LR to BR, without that fan, the BR's drop to 16*C) , and living room where the stove is, is only 18*C. Dining room (at far end of the house) is only 16*C. I'm 3 years with this stove, and the family is getting tired of being cold.

Current Stove top temp is 475*F. Stove pipe is 375*F.

Wood is mixed hardwoods. A 50-50 mix of year old + CSS and stuff CSS this fall. I tried running a few loads of 100% "dry" year old wood (approx 20% MC) and it made no difference


Im looking at other brands because Ive really havent been impressed by Napoleon's customer service nor their build quality.

Any wood CSS this fall should not be in the mix, especially when it's very cold. You should be able to regularly get the stovetop up to 650 F. If not, there is either an issue with the wood, the draft, or the stove operation. What is the total height of the flue system on the stove?

 

[scooby074]

I should have added those temps were not long after a reload.

Current temp is about 375 on the pipe with 580 on the stove. Draft is set at about 1,5-2 on a scale of 6.

Ideally Id only burn the older stuff, however if I want to make it thought the year I have to mix. I dont have enough dry to go through the whole season and I figure some dry is better than no dry.

Regardless, even with a full load of dry, I notice no difference other than reduced large coals.

 

[begreen]

Describe the flue on the stove from stove to cap.

 

[scooby074]

Its just a basic Selkirk install. It's about 60" from stove top to the collar where it goes into the Selkirk. Above the roof there is ~5' of pipe that is topped with a raincap. It's all 6" pipe.

Perhaps a picture would be better

 

[flhpi]

I am running the T6 right now. If I needed to buy a stove I would try the Jotul F600. I always wanted to try a Joul and the F600 looks good too. Plus it has an ash pan. I know the ash pan debate has been on several threads. After owning a VC with a great ash pan system I really miss having one on my stove.
Also, the local Jotul dealer is good to deal with.
Good luck with your decision.

 

[madison]

T6 without an ash pan? Didn't know it was an option NOT to have the ash pan ... Which if it is an option would be my preference not to have the ash pan on the PE's. IMHO it is not functional and prone to air leaks.

Where the stove is located in the ranch home - ie how close to frequent sitting area's etc - an iron clad stoves (ie T6) would make sitting close to the stove more friendly in tight living quarters.

 

[flhpi]

Madison, my T6 has an ash pan, it just stinks in its duty. I don't use it. In my previous post I should have made a point to say that I would like a functional ash pan.

 

[begreen]

The T6 has an ashpan, it's just not a grate ashpan system like on the Jotul. I don't agree with the F600 recommendation for this installation if clearance are tight. Is a more radiant stove needed? Personally I would give the Nappy another chance without the crook in the pipe.

 

[FyreBug]

Also keep in mind concrete is a heat sink. Your concrete floor is absorbing quite a bit of the heat and that wont provide a good reference for any stoves you burn down there.

 

[scooby074]

The T6 has an ashpan, it's just not a grate ashpan system like on the Jotul. I don't agree with the F600 recommendation for this installation if clearance are tight. Is a more radiant stove needed? Personally I would give the Nappy another chance without the crook in the pipe.

The Nappy will be getting a second chance with a straight pipe. I hope to be visiting the dealer and checking out some ICC pipe today.

And there are no clearance issues to deal with in this installation.

 

[scooby074]

T6 without an ash pan? Didn't know it was an option NOT to have the ash pan ... Which if it is an option would be my preference not to have the ash pan on the PE's. IMHO it is not functional and prone to air leaks.

Where the stove is located in the ranch home - ie how close to frequent sitting area's etc - an iron clad stoves (ie T6) would make sitting close to the stove more friendly in tight living quarters.

An ash pan is mandatory for my new stove. After using a bucket for 3 years, I want a neater solution. The amount of dust stirred up and released to the room during cleaning is discouraging.

The stove is located in the living room, which is off the kitchen. The bedrooms are off the living room, and the dining room is on the opposite end to the bedrooms. Like this, from left to right : BR-LR-KIT-DR

 

[jotulguy]

scooby074

the jotuls have the same warranty as the pacifics. life time on the baffle. that change was made last year.maybe the dealer forgot to mention that.

 

[madison]

After using a bucket for 3 years, I want a neater solution. The amount of dust stirred up and released to the room during cleaning is discouraging.

-- I can attest that the T6 ash pan creates more mess and floating ash than a shovel and pail. A couple of tips learned here with the shovel greatly minimizes dust.

Make sure you examine closely the design of the ash system for all the stoves you are checking out.

 

[scooby074]

scooby074

the jotuls have the same warranty as the pacifics. life time on the baffle. that change was made last year.maybe the dealer forgot to mention that.

interesting, thanks. I guess the dealer was unaware.

 

[scooby074]

latest dealer was really suggesting the Alderlea T6. He said it would be better for my open concept. Is this correct? Also he could sell me it for about the price of a Classic. Seems like a pretty good deal???

Only thing is PE is NOT offering the free blower at this time... And I really wanted the blower..

 

[begreen]

It's a good stove and I think you'll like it. They did offer a free blower last year around Feb. I think, but there is no predicting this stuff unless you are a dealer.

 

[scooby074]

The Nappy will be getting a second chance with a straight pipe. I hope to be visiting the dealer and checking out some ICC pipe today.

And there are no clearance issues to deal with in this installation.

Reworked the ole Nappy, built a hearth, and installed a straight shot of double wall ICC pipe at the first of the season.

I now have no problems with the stove cruising at 600+ STT while the damper is set at #2 of 6. The straight pipe made a big improvement in performance.

However Im still having problems with getting enough heat out of the stove into the room, burn time length and ash buildup. Wood is decently dry, no hissing. Lights easy from coals. I misplaced my moisture meter so I cant give an exact number.

So, I can honestly say I gave the old Napoleon a good chance and Im getting the most I can out of it but its still not enough, particularly when the outside temps are lower than -10*C..