PE Super Insert. Opinions/Info?

[Hogwildz]

6" liner ain't going to fit down that old stack. 5" or ovalized is the way to go. Going to be tough to insulate with only 6" ID of the existing tiles.
I believe Duraliner makes a ovalized flex also for the bottom, or if you want to fun full flex to top.
Ovalized may be more of a challenge to clean. They also make an ovalized double wall insulated rigid if I remember correctly.
Gaskets aren't too bad, but I made my own baffle gasket out of 3/8" rope gasket. The factory ones only last one season.

I now have the B series, and the baffle gasket is a bit different. I found some insulation board online and made my own baffle gasket for out of that, When I sweep it this next week or so, I'll see how that held up.

I lucked out and the flex dropped close to straight into the stove adapter, good thing for flex at the bottom, that's why I ordered it that way. If you can't drop straight to the stove, try a 30 degree elbow, or whatever works best for you.

 

[Squisher]

Yah the ovalized duraliner is what I've been looking at. It goes in in sections and I could use 1 3' flex section at the bottom and then 3x4' rigid sections to go up and out. The rigid sections are zero clearance insulated and the one flex section I would have to wrap. But I think it'd fit.

The flex and rigid sections are 4 3/4" x 7 3/4". They don't give the actual thickness of the insulation sleeve for the flex section. So I have to find out specifics on that. And prices. Hopefully not to bad of sticker shock.

I'll double check tomorrow but I think a 30 degree appliance adapter is what I'm going to need.

I'm not worried about cleaning as I'll rotary clean it myself.

Yes I've read about your baffle gasket. Very good idea.

 

[Hogwildz]

Yah the ovalized duraliner is what I've been looking at. It goes in in sections and I could use 1 3' flex section at the bottom and then 3x4' rigid sections to go up and out. The rigid sections are zero clearance insulated and the one flex section I would have to wrap. But I think it'd fit.

The flex and rigid sections are 4 3/4" x 7 3/4". They don't give the actual thickness of the insulation sleeve for the flex section. So I have to find out specifics on that. And prices. Hopefully not to bad of sticker shock.

I'll double check tomorrow but I think a 30 degree appliance adapter is what I'm going to need.

I'm not worried about cleaning as I'll rotary clean it myself.

Yes I've read about your baffle gasket. Very good idea.

I used Duraliner 6" rigid round preinsulated, and it went in fairly smooth. Double check your flex length you need, I used 5' to go from the bottom flue tile, through the smoke shelf and down to the insert outlet. You may find 3' may be a little short. Don't forget you're going to be angling the flex some. 5' worked perfect for me. I didn't insulate the flex. In that area, it is plenty hot enough. Never any build up there. I do highly suggest a block off plate though.

 

[Squisher]

Thanks for the advice. I will look that over closely before committing to the 3'.

And I'm definetly going to do a block off plate. I thought I read somewhere in the duraliner info that they don't recommend any other insulation be used when using their system. I had planned on stuffing the smoke chamber/shelf and basically the whole area above the block off full of roxul. Did you insulate above your block off plate?

 

[Squisher]

Damn I sure think 3' will work and here's the dilemma of it too. As I read it to maintain ZC rating the flexliner must be insulated from where it leaves the smoke chamber and enters the clay liners to where it meets the rigid. I'd be interested to hear any thoughts on this?

If that's the case. A 3' flex liner will definetly be joined to the rigid inside of the smoke chamber and would require no insulation sleeve whatsoever. But if I go with a 5' flex to be safe the flex will definetly extend up into the clay lined flue and to be up to code for ZC would need to be wrapped in insulation.

I'll probably agonize over it for awhile re-read everything a few times and measure it a 100 different ways.

Lastly I'm curious to know if anyone's used this ovalized with the extendacap termination. It says they come in a oval configuration but I haven't been able to see a pic of it. I'd like to extend my flue by I think 18"-24" to make it real close to 15' interior masonry(last foot or two as insulated rigid liner poking out) with a insulated liner. I'm hoping that will give me adequate draft.

 

[Hogwildz]

Damn I sure think 3' will work and here's the dilemma of it too. As I read it to maintain ZC rating the flexliner must be insulated from where it leaves the smoke chamber and enters the clay liners to where it meets the rigid. I'd be interested to hear any thoughts on this?

If that's the case. A 3' flex liner will definetly be joined to the rigid inside of the smoke chamber and would require no insulation sleeve whatsoever. But if I go with a 5' flex to be safe the flex will definetly extend up into the clay lined flue and to be up to code for ZC would need to be wrapped in insulation.

I'll probably agonize over it for awhile re-read everything a few times and measure it a 100 different ways.

Lastly I'm curious to know if anyone's used this ovalized with the extendacap termination. It says they come in a oval configuration but I haven't been able to see a pic of it. I'd like to extend my flue by I think 18"-24" to make it real close to 15' interior masonry(last foot or two as insulated rigid liner poking out) with a insulated liner. I'm hoping that will give me adequate draft.

I have a thin layer of rockwool on top of the block off plate. That is exactly what I did. You'll be okay if the flex is just inside the lowest clay tile and meets the insulated rigid there. I wouldn't drive myself nuts worrying about insulating the flex. I have the extendacap on mine, but I used 6" round. You won't really know how well it drafts until you get it up and running. Longer is obviously better in your situation.

 

[Hogwildz]

Here is some info on the oval stuff
https://www.ventingpipe.com/chimney-liners-all-fuels/c14302?f3309=duravent&f3364=rigid liner&f3371=double wall&f3365=oval

https://www.walmart.com/ip/DuraLine...2758&wl11=online&wl12=118897132&wl13=&veh=sem

https://www.northlineexpress.com/6-inch-duraliner-chimney-liner.html

https://www.northlineexpress.com/6-...igid-chimney-relining-pipe-6dlr-48o-6055.html

https://www.northlineexpress.com/6-duraliner-oval-13-x-20-extend-a-cap-kit-6dlr-kxc20-6073.html

You can also call Duravent and talk to a tech, I did when I was getting mine together, they were very helpful and explained each part & part number I needed. They do make angled stove adapters also, maybe you can use one instead of the elbow.

 

[Squisher]

Ha. If only I was in the USA I could head to Wally World and get what I need! Amazing.

Yah I'm probably overthinking that bit of insulation and should just go 5' to be certain it fits. If I could ask if you used the HD flex or the regular one?

Also in the last link you provided that's what I'm talking about is im hoping to extend my last section of rigid ovalized liner up and out the top of the masonry. I see that labelled as a oval cap kit but it sure looks round to me in the photo? So I'm uncertain on what they mean? Why call it an oval kit if it's just a rectangular top plate? Or does it convert right at the top plate from oval to round?

 

[Hogwildz]

Ha. If only I was in the USA I could head to Wally World and get what I need! Amazing.

Yah I'm probably overthinking that bit of insulation and should just go 5' to be certain it fits. If I could ask if you used the HD flex or the regular one?

Also in the last link you provided that's what I'm talking about is im hoping to extend my last section of rigid ovalized liner up and out the top of the masonry. I see that labelled as a oval cap kit but it sure looks round to me in the photo? So I'm uncertain on what they mean? Why call it an oval kit if it's just a rectangular top plate? Or does it convert right at the top plate from oval to round?

Can't you order from Walmart online? I ordered mine from Ventingpipe.com as they were the cheapest 11 seasons ago. Looks like Northern Express is giving a decent price. I think the photo may just be a stock photo of the cap extenda flue kit,. the top plate will be either rectangular or square, depending on which one you order. Not sure if they convert to round or stay oval . I'd call Duravent to confirm. Duraliner only had the one flex piece when I bought mine, it wasn't the Ventinox if that is what you're asking.

 

[begreen]

Check pricing on www.woodstovepro.com , ask for Sean.

 

[Squisher]

I appreciate it guys but I'm in BC Canada. So ordering online from the USA means exchange, shipping and duty and waiting.

I've got a BC source that will sell wholesale to me so I'm going to check their pricing out, but I will compare online for certain.

Thanks again for all the advice. I measured and re-measured last night and I believe I'm going to go with the 3' flex and I'm going to get prices on the HD version vs the regular.

I was able to visually confirm that the oval cap kit is indeed oval up and out of the top cap. I saw a picture from a e-bay listing.

 

[Squisher]

Curious any tips for cleaning out the old fireplace. I've cleaned the living heck out of it creosote/soot wise but should I be 'washing' the interior of the old fireplace with anything to get it spotless? I've never had smell or moisture issues with the fireplace but it occurs to me that now I'm going to be sealing that area off with a block off plate and then 'baking' it with the insert. Should I use commercial fireplace cleaning products or is there a cheaper and effective alternative? Or is it something else I'm overthinking? I'd hate to get any kind of stank out of it when the insert goes in.

 

[begreen]

I never have gone that far. If all creosote has been removed, including the smokeshelf then it sounds like you are ready to install.

 

[Squisher]

Ok. Thanks, didn't really want to start scrubbing the thing down. Yah it's all pretty damn spotless now from a creosote perspective. I had cleaned it, burned one fire and then cleaned the living heck out of it in preparation for this. I can view the smokeshelf quite well from the top too because it's so short.

 

[begreen]

Time to rock and roll!

 

[Squisher]

I got things sorted I think. I'm going to look it over about ten more times tonight and order it up in the morning.

 

[Squisher]

More questions than answers unfortunately.

So my supplier has told me that the flat oval to round appliance adapter does not have a male end that goes into the flue collar of an insert. He says it sits flush and is meant to be screwed to the shroud of the insert and then sealed with high temp sealant or refractory. He was holding it in his hand when he said there is no male end that penetrates into the flue collar whatsoever. Also he said it's about 1" tall and that the transition from round to oval in that 1" is not smooth and many people have expressed concern about potential creosote build up and draft turbulence.

He said the way it's meant to be mounted is screwed to the sheet metal surround and then sealed to the insert collar with high temp silicone or cement. He doesn't like that and honestly I don't really care for it either.

So now I'm looking into a 14" flex round to oval piece that will connect to the 3' oval flex. I would have to pull the 3' flex down far enough to attach the 14" piece and then push it back up to attach to the appliance. This will give me a bit of extra flex to work with to hook up to the insert but I believe it may push the flex up into the first clay liner slightly. I respect that it's probably not a concern but it won't meet code for ZC if it does go into the liners at all. I could push roxul all around it from the bottom if it does go into the clay at all even though I know that still won't make it code compliant.

I'm not in a rush really, besides just wanting to do it. So I'm going to measure some more.

All thoughts on this are very much appreciated. Besides wanting to have a efficient fireplace a big goal of mine in undertaking this project is learning so that one day I'll have the experience to install confidently for others.

 

[Squisher]

Well I'm curious if others here have used these duraliner stove adapters and specifically a oval to round one? Even round to round. I'd be curious to know how they hook up/seal exactly.

I'm stumped on this a bit because on the one hand from what I can tell this component would be the certified piece made by simpson for the exact purpose that I want to use it for. And on the other hand I've got a guy who I've come to know is respected as a experienced supplier telling me he doesn't really recommend it?

But this would be the certified part designed and cert'd to do exactly what I'm wanting to do as far as I can tell?

 

[bholler]

Well I'm curious if others here have used these duraliner stove adapters and specifically a oval to round one? Even round to round. I'd be curious to know how they hook up/seal exactly.

You can always just crimp it so it fits into the stove collar.

 

[Squisher]

Have you seen these adaptors, because I'm not sure that I can from just looking at the stock pictures and the product description and installation manual. In the installation manual it says to use sealant and it gets screwed to the appliance. Sort of like it's 'box' shaped. I've asked Simpson tech support to send me two actual photos of what the round to oval adaptor plate looks like. One picture from each side. Hopefully they do.

If you've crimped one before I'll take your word for it. I'm only questioning because I've searched the living heck out of all things duraliner on this site and I've read that you don't use Simpson products. Although I really appreciate you chiming in here to help me out.

I can be guilty of analysis paralysis at times. But I just want to fully understand everything and do it in the best way possible.

 

[bholler]

. In the installation manual it says to use sealant and it gets screwed to the appliance

I would never install it that way it will not hold up well.

If you've crimped one before I'll take your word for it. I'm only questioning because I've searched the living heck out of all things duraliner on this site and I've read that you don't use Simpson products. Although I really appreciate you chiming in here to help me out.

No I do not and it is crap like that which made me stop using their products. I have found way to many instances where they tell people to do things that are wrong. But that is another story. And I have also been told they have not been simpson for quite a while.

 

[Hogwildz]

The adapter I used did not go into the outlet either. but it did go around the outside of the adapter, and also had a curved lip that met flush with the edge of the stove adapter. The adapter had a plate that they wanted to be screwed to the top shell of the stove. My problem was, the adapter was too tall and when the plate sat flush against the top of the stove body, the adapter ring was about 1" higher than the stove adapter. So I cut the round part of the adapter which is almost like a ring, away from the plate portion. This allowed the adapter ring to rest tight flush with the outlet edge, and the sides of the ring to slide down over the outside of the outlet. I could then screw the ring portion through the sides of the stove outlet flange.

That was the only issue and problem I had with the set up, wich with simple modification, worked real nice.

 

[Squisher]

Ok. Interesting. I do want to sort this out properly so I'm not rushing into anything and possibly I need to source another supplier/product. But I was hopeful this would work for a ZC rated install in my 6x13 clay liners. As they are in fine shape so wasn't wanting to break them out. If that oval to round adapter was good I'd be insulated rigid all the way into the smoke chamber and one 3' piece of flex to the adapter and it'd be a slam dunk.

Bholler I know you have lots of experience, what would you be inclined to do if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Hogwildz]

You can always trim the pc of flex that is round to oval, and use a connector to join it with the full oval portion of rigid liner. This will keep you out of the flue tile.

 

[Squisher]

I was told that that short piece of oval to round flex would still need to mount to a stove adapter to attach to the appliance? My option that was presented by my supplier was to use a round to round 15 or 30 appliance adapter and then use the short piece of round to oval flex to attach to the longer flex. I don't have room for a big angled round to round appliance adapter on top of the unit.

I'm curious to see the pictures of the actual round to oval appliance adapter. I'm guessing yours was round to round Hogwildz? Hopefully I have those pics from duravent sometime tomorrow. One from the top and one from the bottom.