Persistent Downdraft Issues

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Nolan

New Member
Mar 2, 2019
3
Calgary, AB, Canada
Hi. I've looked for things on the forum many times over the years but finally joined and am posting. I have a Regency Hearth Heater 2100 Wood Stove Insert. We had it installed 9 years ago into the existing fireplace. We live in a 4 level split house and it is located on the lower but not lowest level (about 3' below grade). It is located at the centre of the North wall. The existing fireplace chimney pipe exited out of the house and ran beside it up to and through the soffit and roof.

The Regency Hearth Heater is designed so that you cannot actually shut air off to the unit. The damper controls air flow to the main inlet but it has secondary inlets that inject oxygen into pipes near the top to burn any smoke. We always open windows in the room before lighting, or reloading the stove. We would get downdrafts though that would be very difficult to reverse and end up smoking up the house. So, two years later while I retrofitted the house with 6" of rigid foam, SIP screwed through 1x4s as a rain screen, I built a chimney chase around the pipe with 2x6 walls, insulated with Roxul and boarded with Fire-rated Drywall on the inside. The chimney chase was capped with stainless steel and a new chimney cap.

Things improved. For a while. Then 2 years ago we had a Radon mitigation system installed. It is sub slab depressurization - basically a low speed fan in a 6" PVC pipe drilled through the basement concrete, piped up and out. I meticulously sealed any concrete cracks, spray foamed behind the frost walls and beneath the furnace and replaced the sump cover with an airtight one to try to prevent it pulling conditioned air from the house down and out. The next winter we had the worst downdrafts ever. The wood stove actually iced over inside the house.

I was a little peeved as the Hearth Heater is promoted as eliminating the leaky drafts of fireplaces, which now seems ridiculous since it's not sealed itself. So I called the installer and they said it seemed strange - had I had the chimney professionally cleaned? Yes, annually and just cleaned in fact. So they sent their best guy out to do an inspection. I asked them to bring any expected parts so they could do repairs at the same time as the inspection. They agreed and sent someone out. He didn't bring parts but said it was a combination of factors. He thought the chimney needed to be extended higher and the fire bricks needed to be replaced and the door gasket tightened a little bit. So I asked them to do the repairs. This led to a lengthy 6 month delay where that serviceman moved to another city and they had to get a new one and some parts were back-ordered. Because they didn't get it 'fixed' until summer it was hard to know whether the problem was solved.

This winter, things have been better-ish but not solved. I still get downdrafts, and now have to open multiple windows in the basement, in addition to the room the stove is in. It's completely fine once the fire's going. Even the next day if the box is still warm it's easy to light. But wait two days and it's a fight to light (not to mention it's freezing the house with the cold air leaking in). I want to stop the problem at the source and wondered about getting a top cap damper but anything I've been able to find is operated by a cable and I'm told won't be compatible with an insert. I also wondered about running an insulated flex duct make-up air line to the room but don't see how that would be any different than opening a window. I'd love some help because the installing company basically said they've done everything they can.
 
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That's a real pickle. If you weren't below grade, I'd say to just switch to a stove that takes an OAK.

I would personally consider the stove a CO hazard in the state it's in now, and any other stove is going to be just as bad in that situation because it's below grade and in a depressurized building.

You could always open the window nearest the stove about 30 square inches whenever the stove is burning, but you'll get tired of that fast when you get up to a 40 degree house.

I'd be stove shopping, and looking at installing the new stove above grade with an outside air kit. That is really expensive, but it's also the right way to do it.

It may be possible that you can get a stove with an OAK installed in the current location, but you'd need to drill into the specifics of that with your stove manufacturer.
 
Interestingly I have CO detectors close by and have never ever had an issue.

That's good; that means the house is getting all of its replacement air somewhere other than from the stove flue! Though your mention of all the cold air coming in through the stove says that this is not always true.

It also means that you should be careful- next time you improve the airtightness of the envelope (new windows, maybe), you could end up with worse draft problems than you have now.

Try preheating the flue before lighting a fire. Some people use a propane torch for this purpose.

Other recourses that don't involve moving or switching the stove are more flue and better insulated flue.
 
Sounds to me like your house is so air tight that you need a air to air heat exchanger to equalize the pressure between indoors and outdoors.
 
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I already have new windows and yes tightness was the goal of the retrofit. I've been contemplating an HRV for balanced pressure though they're certainly not cheap. I looked through this thread regarding OAKs and whether they might fix things but I don't think Regency has an OAK for the hearth heater, which is annoying because it's a good EPA cert. Stove that puts out a great amount of heat for an insert.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/outside-air-kits-do-you-recommend-them.1929/page-1
 
I already have new windows and yes tightness was the goal of the retrofit. I've been contemplating an HRV for balanced pressure though they're certainly not cheap. I looked through this thread regarding OAKs and whether they might fix things but I don't think Regency has an OAK for the hearth heater, which is annoying because it's a good EPA cert. Stove that puts out a great amount of heat for an insert.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/outside-air-kits-do-you-recommend-them.1929/page-1
Unless the basement is a walkout you can't use an oak anyway because it can't go up from the stove at all.

What you have is not really a down draft, it is a negative pressure situation in the area of the stove and until you address that it will not be a safe install.
 
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