PH50cabps Convection Blower Grommet/Bearing replacement

[solomyn]

Hey there everyone,

So... I have questions concerning a convection fan in a Pleasant Hearth PH50cabps that I bought from Home Depot in September.

I have been learning quite a bit about pellet stoves since owning this one (which is my first). I moved from a woodstove to pellets this year, and have come to realize that although there are an incredible amount of benefits from it, there are some considerations. Most are around just cleaning and maintaining it, which I have a good schedule/procedure for now.

However... there's the issue of noise.

In the last couple of days, there has been a pretty bad rattling/squealing coming from the stove. i pinpointed it to the convection blower. I called the manufacturer, and they said that they were going to send a rubber grommet that would fix the issue. The service desk rep didn't have much more information than that... and couldn't answer any questions.

Soooo... here I am.

The blower motor is a SRV7000-659. Some information I found on it is:
Manufacturer: Huayi
Model HY6030U 120H
Part # 160301150606
AC115 60Hz Z P
CLASS Hn 40W

I can't really find any information on the grommet itself.

Before I tear into it, I was wondering if anyone else has had this issue, and if so... what is the durability of that grommet? Does it also contain a bearing? Is it easy to install? Did it resolve the issues you were having? Is there a suitable upgrade for this blower?


The topic was discussed in this thread:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/pleasant-hearth-bushing.157949/#post-2118495

But, Sasquatch hasn't been online since October, or I would have asked him directly. As you can see... the post ended, but didn't answer any of the question I have above.

Sorry for the longwinded nature of this post. If anyone has any information they can share, I would be forever grateful!

Thanks,
Kyle

 

[solomyn]

Anyone? Bueller?

 

[Ssyko]

this is probably the item they are sending you. https://www.ghpgroupinc.com/product-details/229-0171.html

i believe it is the bushing and holder for the motor. im thinking there is not many ph50 owners around or on the forums sorry

 

[JamesV]

Ah, yes, had to replace fan assembly within a year. One of the bearings squeals badly. The customer service says to lube grommet & copper bushing w. Lithim grease. Only my issue was the bearing at the electric motor, this can't be lubed.
The stove company sent me a replacement assembly when I informed them of this. (May have paid cost price?)
Amazon sells these assemblies at $120.
PP60 was my fan.
I'm thinking cheap Chinese junk. 2 winters later the replacement fan bearing squealing again.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Ah, yes, had to replace fan assembly within a year. One of the bearings squeals badly. The customer service says to lube grommet & copper bushing w. Lithim grease. Only my issue was the bearing at the electric motor, this can't be lubed.
The stove company sent me a replacement assembly when I informed them of this. (May have paid cost price?)
Amazon sells these assemblies at $120.
PP60 was my fan.
I'm thinking cheap Chinese junk. 2 winters later the replacement fan bearing squealing again.

Wrong, they can ALL be lubricated, it's just knowing how and doing it and doing it regularly, not waiting until they start making noise.

I'm thinking poor maintenance myself (on your part).

If I was dryer than a popcorn fart, I'd squeal too.

 

[JamesV]

Wrong, they can ALL be lubricated, it's just knowing how and doing it and doing it regularly, not waiting until they start making noise.

I'm thinking poor maintenance myself (on your part).

If I was dryer than a popcorn fart, I'd squeal too.

Not sure, or care, what last statement means but you could be right about BOTH bearings capable of being lubed.
As far as customer service recommendstions, I was 'informed' only copper bearing and grommet could be lubed.
And like most bearings, your advice to periodically lube them is always beneficial.
I'll have to study the assembly on my counter and see if you are correct about the motor side bearings.
Any hints?

 

[SidecarFlip]

No one uses a copper bearing, not even the Chinese. Copper is NOT a good bearing material. The sleeve bearings are 660 CA oil impregnated bronze, IOW sintered, powdered bronze pressure soaked in lubricant. Simple matter toi apply light oil regularly to them to keep them lubricated, I do that at least once a year, usually in the spring.

The skate bearings can also be oiled. The dust shields can be removed with a sharp blade )(carefully) and the inner balls and races lubed again with light motor oil and the dust shields carefully pressed back in place (so long as you don't bugger them up removing them. Mine are over 15 years in operation and quiet as a mouse.

If they are too far gone (as in you don't take care of the stove), each bearing will have a catalog number on it that will cross to bearings at your local bearing distributor.

Multifuel stoves are ALL labor intensive, there is no free ride, unless you have a big wallet for replacement parts that is.

Mu comment about a popcorn fart refers to your dried out bearings. They are screaming for oil.

 

[Ssyko]

If you lube the motors use anderol or 3in1 electric motor oil. If they are sintered bronze bushings if they are ball bearing they generally use a grease made for electric motors. If you can, check with mfr. for thier recommendation.

 

[JamesV]

Thanks to the both of you for the info.
Too bad you guys weren't the ones answering the stove company's customer service/tech line.
Even the owner's manuals offer nothing in the way of fan assembly maintanence.
Here I was trying to help someone more ignorant than I and I was one-upped by one who knows this kind of stuff well. Guess that's what these forums are for.
Incidently, I owned a different brand pellet stove at my former house and never had to perform such detailed maintanence on the convection fan bearings.
And don't you think your bearing maintanence description is too involved for an assembly that requires at least annual lubing? Thus my opinion for not-so-great design or, at least a quality improvement situation with materials used.
This Pleasant Hearth unit we're discussing is easy to work on and seems to work well. It does seem odd to me that bearings would start squealing after only a handful of months, no?
(oh, I should have been more specific, ya copper, as in color, not actual bearing composition. I know copper is not a good bearing material)
Again your info is very helpful and greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[SidecarFlip]

If you lube the motors use anderol or 3in1 electric motor oil. If they are sintered bronze bushings if they are ball bearing they generally use a grease made for electric motors. If you can, check with mfr. for thier recommendation.

Been using high film thickness Vactra way oil for years with no issues. Of course my mileage and your may vary. Nice thing about a shaded pole motor is they are easy to take apart. Usually 2 torx screws hold the outer armature support and removing that gives you access to the outboard bearing and the inner bearing as well. You just have to remember which way the field comes off because reversing the field laminations will reverse motor rotation which may not be good with a fan drive motor.

I learned the hard way with drive motors years ago by neglecting them and once the bearings got to the point of dried out, it's pretty hard to bring them back, especially the sintered ones because they get oval and then the armatures start contacting the field windings and it's new motor time. MY SOP is when I do my spring cleaning, the entire stove comes apart and everything gets attention and cleaned and I fog the inside with fogging oil as well. That way. come fall, it's just a matter of adding fuel, lighting it (mine is manual light) and it's off to the races again.

 

[SidecarFlip]

How long or how short a time span before bearings dry out is and isn't in your control entirely. It will all depend on how well they were lubricated during assembly, how long they sat before assembly and what kind of atmosphere they are running in, in your appliance.

People need to understand that the atmosphere they run in really isn't conducive to a long trouble free life. It's hot and it's dusty and both contribute to a short lifespan.

You have no idea about the initial lubrication at all, why I service mine every spring. Been there and did that with dry bearings. Nothing better than a screaming bearing when the missus is trying to watch the home improvement channel on the boob tube....

99% of the time, my stove runs like a well oiled watch and it is well oiled........

 

[SidecarFlip]

Last year, I was offered a job with a local stove shop as a salesperson, service person. I passed. One, I don't have good communication skills, two, I'm not a salesman and 3, I have little tolerance for stupid, besides, don't need to get dirty cleaning / fixing other peoples units, I can do that with mine.

I can help on here but you are the one that gets dirty, not me. Big plus.

 

[JamesV]

Good points, SideCar...
Servicing the "stupid" , tho seems intolerable, is what keeps maintanence techs in business, right?
Ssyko, I was wondering about the 'fog oil', ya, noticed summer condensation is brutal on all stoves.
Regardless of who makes what units, guess one has to be prepared. Luckily, my bearings just started whining and it's seldom. I believe both units (saved the replaced unit) can be salvaged. I'm off Thursday, tinker time. I'll be able to move forward knowing it can easily be done.
Hey SideCar, I checked out you Flipmeisters website. I'm not much of a cycle enthusiast anymore but I still have my bike...

 

[SidecarFlip]

I use Stabil fogging oil in mine myself but any light lubricant cut with a solvent (like acetone) will suffice, in a spritz bottle. Keeps the interior metal corrosion free and looking somewhat good (after a good cleaning of course). Far as my website, it's all Triumph parts, I collect Brit bikes ands I own a fabrication shop, not stove parts, automotive stuff.

 

[JamesV]

If you lube the motors use anderol or 3in1 electric motor oil. If they are sintered bronze bushings if they are ball bearing they generally use a grease made for electric motors. If you can, check with mfr. for thier recommendation.

 

[JamesV]

I suppose I could check with manufacturer but it's been my experience that they'd probably recommend professional service and would be reluctant on any recommendation for liability reasons.

After all, their tech dept. only recommended the bronze bushing/grommet side for lubing. And I think they told me lithium but that was 2 years ago.
What you've used seems logical.

 

[SidecarFlip]

They buy the components pre built so probably really don't have a clue anyway.

 

[JamesV]

Bearing summary:
The 2 motor bearings are, in fact, sealed bearings NMB R-1650HH (or 625ZZ).
It's my experience these can't be lubed.
BUT I bought 4 from Grainger at 3.99 each.
Seems ya can get a roller ball type bearing? But why?
Obviously the bearings do not squeal, do not show signs of wear, no grinding... when cold and rotating by hand (or most of the time when stove is running).
The outer bearing casings are stationary in their housing. The inner casing remains press-fit on the armature shaft. All I can think of is that the periodic squealing is a sign that they are beginning to deteriorate. At $3 each, why wouldn't I buy a few to keep on hand? Easy to replace.
Unless you know something here I'm missing.
Ah, I've always liked Triumphs.
A story: friend & I setting out on cycle fishing/camping trip 1993. Met some old guy in 70's at gas station. At his house , he started up his 1948 Ariel he bought then...
Cool old bike!

 

[SidecarFlip]

I'm cheaper than you, I pop the dust cover, lube them and put the covers back on. 15 years now and no issue, can do it in my sleep almost. Have a very good friend with a Brough Superior like TE Lawrence rode. Fast bike, no brakes. I own a 1967 Norton P11A high pipe 750 Scrambler in mint condition too. Never ride it, afraid I might crash it so it sits in the corner along with my Bonneville with the sidecar. When I expire, there will be a helluva estate sale here. Wife will get rich and I won't care.

I'll be long time dead.

 

[JamesV]

But are your bearings sealed? I'm wondering if your unit has a slightly different assembly being it's 15 years old.
Anyway, your advice was still beneficial.

Ah, Nortons! Had a traveling cycle museum come thru here +10 years ago. Got to see some of them.
I had an 83 Gold wing for a while in 90's in Fla.
Now an 800 Kawa Drifter that I customized to appear more like the Indian sits in the garage. I get many compliments but I don't care anymore. Not worth anything anyhow even fixed up.

 

[SidecarFlip]

But are your bearings sealed? I'm wondering if your unit has a slightly different assembly being it's 15 years old.
Anyway, your advice was still beneficial.

Ah, Nortons! Had a traveling cycle museum come thru here +10 years ago. Got to see some of them.
I had an 83 Gold wing for a while in 90's in Fla.
Now an 800 Kawa Drifter that I customized to appear more like the Indian sits in the garage. I get many compliments but I don't care anymore. Not worth anything anyhow even fixed up.

Go back and read my post Number 7. Bearing design has not changed much in the last 40 years.

 

[Connecticut Yankee]

Is there any written or video instruction on how to find and lubricate the bearings in fan motors, to aid the mechanically handicapped? Despite having worked in a fan factory for a while, I'd have no idea how to go about finding and lubricating the bearings on the motors in my stove. Not to mention the fact that the manual is of no use whatsoever; lubricating the bearings isn't anywhere on the list of maintenance tasks.

As for the fans I helped build, just to get at them would require complete disassembly of the motor, and there'd be no guarantee you'd get the thing put back together in usable fashion after, unless you worked for the factory. (And not even then, sometimes . . . )

 

[Ssyko]

Is there any written or video instruction on how to find and lubricate the bearings in fan motors, to aid the mechanically handicapped? Despite having worked in a fan factory for a while, I'd have no idea how to go about finding and lubricating the bearings on the motors in my stove. Not to mention the fact that the manual is of no use whatsoever; lubricating the bearings isn't anywhere on the list of maintenance tasks

CY this should be pretty damn close to most pellet stove motors. It is a furnace blower

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[SidecarFlip]

Good video, Ssyko not just the motor part but the furnace trouble shooting as well as most of us have a furnace as well.

Only difference between a furnace blower motor and a combustion fan/ room air distribution fan and also the auger motor(s) is, the furnace fan is larger and has field windings whereas your biomass stove motors have laminations for the field because they are fractional horsepower motors.

One word of caution about taking them apart and that is... Always not the way the field laminations are installed as flipping the laminations over (front to back, back to front) will reverse the rotation of the armature in the field. In the case of fans, that will cause the fan to rotate in the opposite direction which is not a good thing. Fans (combustion or distribution) must rotate a certain direction to move the air properly, so mark the field laminations before taking the motor apart.

Nothing much in one to damage but you also need to be aware of the shim washers on some armature shafts and makes sure they go back on the respective ends, they way they came out. Most time, shim washers will be on reduction gearbox motors as there is a bit of linear force applied to the motor armature from the gear teeth milled in the end of the armature shaft. Those washers take up that movement and in the case of a gear reduction (auger) motor, the inner bearing (in the gearcase don't need oil as the gearcase should be grease filled anyway.

Lubricating gearcases is another installment however as gearcases can also benefit from renewed greasing as the lubricant inside tends to harden from the heat of operation inside your stove cabinet. For another time however

 

[Connecticut Yankee]

Thanks, Ssyko and Sidecar. I appreciate the help. I love my pellet stove and want to give it the care it needs to live long and prosper.