Piazzetta firmware and feedrates...

[chken]

…so, EastMtn and I have been going back and forth about the Piazzetta firmware and pellet feedrates and we have differences, even though we have the same model.

I was wondering if other Piazzetta owners would chip in with their firmware versions and feed rates for comparison. It doesn't matter if you have a Sabrina or Monia.

Here's what we know so far:

2013 Sabrina firmware: SP40 SC MV 1.1 115
2012 Sabrina firmware: SP40 BV 1-1-115

You can get the firmware version by holding keys 1 and 6, simultaneously for more than 5 secs. It scrolls by quickly.

What's interesting is that the 2013 Sabrina has lower feed rates from the 2012 Sabrina, which matches the programming manual:

2012 Sabrina / 2013 Sabrina / 2012 Monia
Power 1 - 3.3secs / 3.3secs / 3.3secs
Power 2 - 4.6secs / 4.3secs / 4.3secs
Power 3 - 6.4secs / 5.4secs / 5.5secs
Power 4 - 7.7secs / 6.5secs / 6.6secs
Power 5 - unlisted / 7.6secs / 7.8secs

You can see your pellet feed rate, combustion fan speed and smoke temp by checking your Stove Status. It's the last thing in your settings.

If you look at the above, the 2013 Sabrina is feeding at about the same rate as the 2012 Monia and quite a bit less than the 2012 Sabrina!

I was planning on tweaking my combustion settings this weekend, but now I'll wait to see if I can better understand what is going on with the pellet feed rates. Why is my 2013 Sabrina feeding pellets at the rate of a smaller 2012 Monia?

 

[EastMtn]

2013 Sabrina firmware: SP40 SC MV 1.1 115
2012 Sabrina firmware: SP40 BV 1-1-115

Just thought I'd add that I came across another firmware this weekend for a P961: P961_SY_V_1_1_115
SY for mulitfuocco. Verstion 1.1 115Volt. I don't know what the V stands for. All 3 seem to share Version 1.1 of the firmware though.

 

[chken]

Just thought I'd add that I came across another firmware this weekend for a P961: P961_SY_V_1_1_115
SY for mulitfuocco. Verstion 1.1 115Volt. I don't know what the V stands for. All 3 seem to share Version 1.1 of the firmware though.

Thanks, "V" seems like it should stand for version or volt. Your firmware is what the programming guide shows. The "M" in mine is the confusing part. The obvious guess would be it stands for Monia. Also, the feed rates look like Monia feed rates.

If that's the case, the question then becomes, is my Power5 setting only giving me 37k btus and not 47k btus? The only way I can think of testing that is to check how quickly I can go thru a bag of pellets on Power 5. According to a 5.7lb/hr rate, it should last 7 hrs. I'm testing it right now on a constant Power5, since it's nice and cold outside.

One question, how many secs is your feed rate on Power 5 since the programming manual is blank? Have you ever tried running it constant to see if 7 hrs is approx. correct?

 

[EastMtn]

…so, EastMtn and I have been going back and forth about the Piazzetta firmware and pellet feedrates and we have differences, even though we have the same model.


2012 Sabrina / 2013 Sabrina / 2012 Monia
Power 1 - 3.3secs / 3.3secs / 3.3secs
Power 2 - 4.6secs / 4.3secs / 4.3secs
Power 3 - 6.4secs / 5.4secs / 5.5secs
Power 4 - 7.7secs / 6.5secs / 6.6secs
Power 5 - unlisted / 7.6secs / 7.8secs

I think I figured it out. The values for the factory settings for the Monia 4p to 10p and 16p-22p should be the Sabrina rates. The neg pressures recommendations and all of the other columns are fine. Its just the factory setting column numbers that are in the wrong place.

I did a reset and wrote down my settings and they are identical to what's in the Monia.
I took a look at a P60's factory settings and they are
P1 3.2/1870
P2 4.2/1990
P3 5.4/2140
P4 6.4/2290
P5 7.5/2430
A P60/61 is nearly identical to a Sabrina mechanically with the exception of having two room fans instead of 1 and a temperature sensor in the remote( I like that feature).

I did the monthly cleaning on my stove this morning so I'll test one bag and see how long it takes at factory settings P5. The feed rate is measured in .0000 per second. A 7.9 feed rate will give you 5.7lbs /hr. multiply your feed rate by 12sec then 60min an that will give you the feed rate per hr.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

I maybe can help
post a picture of the display and control board.
Italian pellet stove most times use Micronova or Thiemme Electronica controllers
It's very tough to deal with both of them

 

[EastMtn]

I maybe can help
post a picture of the display and control board.
Italian pellet stove most times use Micronova or Thiemme Electronica controllers
It's very tough to deal with both of them

Great Thanks. Click to enlarge.

 

[chken]

I think I figured it out. The values for the factory settings for the Monia 4p to 10p and 16p-22p should be the Sabrina rates. The neg pressures recommendations and all of the other columns are fine. Its just the factory setting column numbers that are in the wrong place.

I did a reset and wrote down my settings and they are identical to what's in the Monia.
I took a look at a P60's factory settings and they are
P1 3.2/1870
P2 4.2/1990
P3 5.4/2140
P4 6.4/2290
P5 7.5/2430
A P60/61 is nearly identical to a Sabrina mechanically with the exception of having two room fans instead of 1 and a temperature sensor in the remote( I like that feature).

I did the monthly cleaning on my stove this morning so I'll test one bag and see how long it takes at factory settings P5. The feed rate is measured in .0000 per second. A 7.9 feed rate will give you 5.7lbs /hr. multiply your feed rate by 12sec then 60min an that will give you the feed rate per hr.

Not sure that the programming guide's Monia rates should be the Sabrina's, but that's what we both have. That would make the settings in the programming guide for the Sabrina, wrong, which is strange, don't you think?

Anyhow, we'll know more soon enough when my P5 and your P5 test are done. That'll give us reassurance that the P5 feed rate is the 47k btu rate.

As for your feed rate per hour calculation, I have no clue!

The P60s numbers seem to show they feed a little more air.

 

[chken]

I maybe can help
post a picture of the display and control board.
Italian pellet stove most times use Micronova or Thiemme Electronica controllers
It's very tough to deal with both of them

Don't have any pictures of the insides, but the programming manual indicates we should have Micronova. Scheda Ellettr. Flash C/Cr. PI0123 E02 USA

 

[EastMtn]

Not sure that the programming guide's Monia rates should be the Sabrina's, but that's what we both have. That would make the settings in the programming guide for the Sabrina, wrong, which is strange, don't you think?

Anyhow, we'll know more soon enough when my P5 and your P5 test are done. That'll give us reassurance that the P5 feed rate is the 47k btu rate.

As for your feed rate per hour calculation, I have no clue!

The P60s numbers seem to show they feed a little more air.

It is strange but I've found a lot of typos in this manual. I also got a list of factory feed rate settings from a Sabrina user in Italy earlier today and he had the same ones.

Page 20: "On the left side the period of pellet feed time in s/12sec period. " I took the 5.7 lb/hr divided by 60min and then 12sec and I got a feed rate of .0079 or 7.9. This is assuming that 5.7 lb/hr is the max feed rate. Like you said. We'll find out soon.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

How do you access the parameter list?
Do you press SET-UT04-A9 ?

 

[EastMtn]

Hold down power + sign then select menu parameters using power +/- buttons. E9 in factory settings gives you all 28 parameters

 

[chken]

How do you access the parameter list?
Do you press SET-UT04-A9 ?

Hold key 6, the furthest on the right for 2+secs, and it will allow you to scroll thru the settings. First it will show you "select language", you just keep hitting key 6 until you get to "menu parameters". Then the "set" key" will get you into the submenus. What are you trying to look up?

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

Can you post these 28 parameters?

 

[EastMtn]

Can you post these 28 parameters?

I like the Minerva's output by the way on your site. 24KW (81,000BTU) Wow!! If only I had heard of them last summer.

01 P Ignition time ( maximum time to end "START PHASE I" and end "START PHASE II" )
02 P Flame stabilization time ( duration of "START PHASE II" )
03 P Grate cleaning intervals
04 P Pellet feed time during ignition [ START PHASE I ]
05 P Pellet feed time during stabilization [ START PHASE II ]
06 P Pellet feed time at Power 1 [ Level P1 ]
07 P Pellet feed time at Power 2 [ Level P2 ]
08 P Pellet feed time at Power 3 [ Level P3 ]
09 p Pellet feed time at Power 4 [ Level P4 ]
10 P Pellet feed time at Power 5 [ Level P5 ]
11 P Alarm delay
12 P Grate cleaning time
13 P Smoke temperature for passing on START PHASE I I / Switch OFF exhaust fan : (13P+43 -3) [°C]
14 P Smoke temperature for setting blower to maximum speed and Power to Level P1 : "MAX VENT FLUE COOL" ; Ysteresis= -3°C
15 P Smoke temperature for Blower Start Up / (Switch OFF - 6°C ]
16 P Combustion fan speed during ignition [ START PHASE I ]
17 P Combustion fan speed during stabilization [ START PHASE II ]
18 P Combustion fan speed at Power 1
19P Combustion fan speed at Power 2
20 P Combustion fan speed at Power 3
21 P Combustion fan speed at Power 4
22 P Combustion fan speed at Power 5
23 P Blower speed at Power 1
24 P Blower speed at Power 2
25 P Blower speed at Power 3
26 P Blower speed at Power 4
27 P Blower speed at Power 5
28 P Smoke temperature limit - alarm (MASS TEMP)

What are you trying to look up?

X2??

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

I'm pretty sure it is a Micronova controller.
Looks pretty similar to a bunch of parameters we were using.

Reading trough this post; what is the problem or question, besides some bigger/smaller models having the same settings?
They probably programmed it wrong at the manufacturing plant or distributor/dealer.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

The Minerva's have a Tiemme Electronica controller in them.

 

[PassionForFire&Water]

P1 3.2/1870 P2 4.2/1990 P3 5.4/2140 P4 6.4/2290 P5 7.5/2430

you should be able to interpolate.
There may be maximum's programmed you can not go over.

 

[chken]

First data point in. At 5.7lbs/hr, you would expect the Sabrina to run for 7 hrs on Power5, constant, for 47k btus. I just finished a bag and it took 8 hrs, which means 5lbs/hr, for 41.3k btus.

So, it's not as long as it would take if it were on the Monia's settings, and it's not as short as if it were on the Sabrina's. A bit in the middle. Anyhow, my measured feed rate is 7.6secs, adjusting for the above, I think 8.5secs would bring me close to the correct feed rate to get 5.7lbs/hr and 47k btus.

Let's see how EastMtn's data compares.

 

[chken]

you should be able to interpolate.
There may be maximum's programmed you can not go over.

Yep, the maximum user adjustable amount is 12secs, but they don't give you a factory setting for Power 5, but interpolating from the factory settings for Power1 thru Power 4, it would seem that Power 5 should be a little above 9 secs. My first test seems to show that 8.5 secs might give me the correct 47k btu rating.

 

[EastMtn]

you should be able to interpolate.
There may be maximum's programmed you can not go over.

I'm unable to maintain the 7.6. I had to back it down and the best I can get is 6.6 at P5. The flame gets way too lazy and won't eject the ash so the burnpot keeps filling. This was with the fan nearly maxed out at 2780rpm. Almost 2hrs in.

Chken, do you know what your flue temp was while at P5?
I'm trying a linear interpolation using 2.9/2200 and 6.6/ 2700.

 

[chken]

I'm pretty sure it is a Micronova controller.
Looks pretty similar to a bunch of parameters we were using.

Reading trough this post; what is the problem or question, besides some bigger/smaller models having the same settings?
They probably programmed it wrong at the manufacturing plant or distributor/dealer.

Awesome looking boilers. When I replace my buderus, I'll seriously consider them. I looked into it a few years ago, but the only thing I found back then was a unit from MEsys, and back then, they didn't have the unit they are selling now. I think it had a Bosch injector or something like that. Actually, it was probably more than a few years ago.

As for the thread, you got it, I was trying to figure out if my factory settings on the larger Sabrina, the 47k unit, are actually the ones from the smaller Monia, the 37k unit, as the programming manual seems to show our feed rates match the Monia.

 

[chken]

I'm unable to maintain the 7.6. I had to back it down and the best I can get is 6.6 at P5. The flame gets way too lazy and won't eject the ash so the burnpot keeps filling. This was with the fan nearly maxed out at 2780rpm. Almost 2hrs in.

Chken, do you know what your flue temp was while at P5?
I'm trying a linear interpolation using 2.9/2200 and 6.6/ 2700.

I did look at it once, and it was 242degrees, which is where it pretty much is whenever I check on Power 4 or Power 5.

Do you think altitude may have had an effect upon your ability to get enough O2 into the pot to maintain 7.6?

 

[chken]

2012 Sabrina / 2013 Sabrina / 2012 Monia
Power 1 - 3.3secs / 3.3secs / 3.3secs
Power 2 - 4.6secs / 4.3secs / 4.3secs
Power 3 - 6.4secs / 5.4secs / 5.5secs
Power 4 - 7.7secs / 6.5secs / 6.6secs
Power 5 - unlisted / 7.6secs / 7.8secs

Interpolating my result would give me the following feed rates:
Power 1 - 3.3secs
Power 2 - 4.7secs
Power 3 - 6.0secs
Power 4 - 7.4secs
Power 5 - 8.7secs

Those are far closer to the supposed actual factory numbers in the programming guide, but a little less on the top 3 power settings. I'll run my one bag Power 5 test again.

 

[EastMtn]

I did look at it once, and it was 242degrees, which is where it pretty much is whenever I check on Power 4 or Power 5.

Do you think altitude may have had an effect upon your ability to get enough O2 into the pot to maintain 7.6?

Yes. How much of an effect it has I'm not sure. I haven't ever been able to hold the factory settings at P5. I can do it on the first level but I have the fan up to 2200rpm. The house was sitting at 80 deg inside 39 outside. I opened up some windows to keep it from getting any warmer. Flue temp is at 253deg and still climbing.

 

[chken]

Yes. How much of an effect it has I'm not sure. I haven't ever been able to hold the factory settings at P5. I can do it on the first level but I have the fan up to 2200rpm. The house was sitting at 80 deg inside 39 outside. I opened up some windows to keep it from getting any warmer. Flue temp is at 253deg and still climbing.

Yeah, that's why I ran the test today, here it's single digits. Running P5 constant is comfortable. If it were warmer, I'd have to open windows, just like you.

I'd try runing the test at P4 and see if that matches up to a 38k btu burn, because that's what it's supposed to be extrapolated if P5 is 47k. P4 constant should last 8hrs and 40mins.