Piazzetta Monia opinions

[Pascal_Maertens]

at the end of your chimney is thee a grid you need to take it out and clean it and don't put it back on this grid is causing air restriction

once the grid is of turn the stove on an hit the side of the chimney so the ash can be remove

 

[Pascal_Maertens]

once the grid is of, turn the stove back on an hit the side of the chimney so the ash can be remove it' tha accumulation of ashes that create air restriction I'm just laughing my heart out thinking of all those tech info we went true please tell me that this was the proble.

I just put a video of this on youtube

 

[NHMtns]

at the end of your chimney is thee a grid you need to take it out and clean it and don't put it back on this grid is causing air restriction

No grate on ours. Rep did suggest putting a jet cap on it though. Do those work?

 

[NHMtns]

For anyone interested, look on the back cover of any Pacific Energy product manual, you will find the address, phone number, and email address for Pacific Energy. Additionally, check the back cover of any current Piazzetta manual, you will find the same info as well as a decal with your serial number so you don't need to go hunting for it while talking to tech support. If your Piazzetta manual does not have the P.E. info on it, that means the stove was purchased before Pacific Energy partnered with Piazzetta. You would just need to go to www.piazzetta.com and download any pellet manual to find the info. Pacific Energy is a stand up company that takes a lot of pride in their product and stands behind it 100%. I have had the privilege of being a P.E. dealer for quite a while, and now Piazzetta as well. This problem with NHMtns is frustrating, but what is more frustrating is the fact that he is not getting proper support from his dealer. It makes all the dealers look bad when you hear these stories and it also gives the product line a black eye. If I was within somewhat of a reasonable distance from this problem, you can bet I would be making the trip to get it straightened out. I'm going to find somebody fix this thing...

Looked on the back of the manual. There is only contact info for Piazzetta in Italy. Not even a US number.

 

[NHMtns]

My two cents… I think you have either an air leak causing poor combustion causing the pellets to overflow in the burn pot OR you have an obstruction in the exhaust. If you have burned more than one ton of pellets thru the stove you need to completely disassemble the stove, clean the combustion and room fans, clean all internal passages that move exhaust out of the stove plus clean your vent pipe.

Try this and you may be surprised… do you use the 'leaf blower trick'?

What is the leaf blower trick?

They took it all apart in Oct. and the manual states once a year, as did the rep. But you've found that it needs it every ton?

 

[NHMtns]

I just looked at the Parameter sheet in the Programming Manual for the Piazzetta and the spec for both the Sabrina and Monia is 109F. Unless the spec has changed. And, according to the manual you can drop it 3Celsius to 40C, which is about 104F.

Your comment and the photo makes me think that the combustion fan is shutting off when its running. How else to explain half-burned pellets, and an overflowing pot?

Seems to me that the fan is shutting off, the pellets continue to drop, but since there's no air, the pot just smolders, leading to half-burned pellets. The pellets continue to drop, until you get a mountain of half-burned pellets filling the whole ash pan, and looking exactly as your picture. Leading to smoke, and pellets up the chute, and the strange smoke staining on your air wash deflector.

So, your combustion fan is turning off, not only early in shutdown, but during its run phase. Either the fan is flaky, or the leads aren't connected tightly, or the motherboard is sending out spurious signals, or the exhaust temp sensor is sending bad readings to the motherboard.

You can check the leads that connect the fan to the mobo. And, you can check the exhaust temp sensor, but checking if it's giving the correct temp readings.

Hold button 6 on your control board down for 5 secs. That will get you into the main menu. Once you're in the main menu, push button 5, twice. That will put you into Stove Status. Push button 3, and that will cycle three readings, combustion fan speed (1900 to 2500rpm), augur feed secs (3 to 8 secs out of a 12 sec cycle), and exhaust temp reading. When the stove is up to speed and running, the exhaust temp will generally be between 200F and 250F, depending upon which feed rate you've chosen.

You should check the Stove Status when it's running to see if the combustion fan is stopping, because that's what I suspect. And, check the temps to see if maybe the temp readings are wrong, sending a shutdown signal to the mobo, and thus the fan.

I'm going to try to embed a jpg of the Programming Manual settings for the Monia:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ta98nidpy0pkqjx/Monia.jpg

If you have dropbox acct, I think you can access the jpg at the above link, if the embedded image doesn't show.

That would explain a lot. We went through all of the settings you show above. How do you check if the motherboard is malfunctioning? In the manual there are error messages that are supposed to come up if there are sensor issues but if the mobo itself is messed up.

 

[chken]

That would explain a lot. We went through all of the settings you show above. How do you check if the motherboard is malfunctioning? In the manual there are error messages that are supposed to come up if there are sensor issues but if the mobo itself is messed up.

First, I'd check the exhaust thermostat to be sure it's not telling the fan to shut off. As I mentioned in the prior post, check stove status, to see if you're getting the correct exhaust thermostat readings. If you are, then I think the problem has to be the board.

We know your combustion fan comes on, but not for long, that's why you cycle it on 5 or 6 times to clear the smoke when it shuts down. So, the fan works, so the board has to be bad, if the fan and the exhaust sensor are working. The NE distributor guy should have a backup board to replace yours. I can't understand why they didn't do it originally when they saw what your stove had done. I mean, I've only owned my Piazzetta since November, and it seems obvious the combustion fan is not on, causing all of your symptoms with the pellets unburned and hot embers visible, and pellets backing up the chute.

 

[chken]

What is the leaf blower trick?

They took it all apart in Oct. and the manual states once a year, as did the rep. But you've found that it needs it every ton?

According to the manual, you clean the exhaust vent every ton or so. You clean behind the backplate once a week or so. You scrape the grate once a day. You vac the fly ash chamber once a season.

Personally, once you do dial in your stove, you can do less. I scrape the grate, and vac the firebox once every 2 or 3 days depending upon how much I have burned. I clean behind the backplate once every 2 weeks. When I do that, I clean the exhaust vent. So, I clean the exhaust vent more, and inside the stove less. It's possible I clean the vent more because my vent is at the length limit for its size.

 

[Lake Girl]

No grate on ours. Rep did suggest putting a jet cap on it though. Do those work?

Yes they work but that does not seem to be your problem ... or the least of your problems. We have just a 3' horizontal that terminates with turbo cap - turbo cap also has a screen built-in. What configuration and diameter is your exhaust venting? Bends, t's, length of horizontals and verticals? Do you have an OAK?

When was the last time you talked to the Rep? Did they give you a time frame for part arrival? May want to give them a deadline and think about small claims court... although I personally hate that concept. They are not leaving you a lot of choice as they are running you out of warranty, taken your money in good faith, selling through a dealer that is untrained and you have a stove that doesn't function as advertised. If they knew they had a problem with warping, they should have replacement plates in stock... at PE at least. A week at standard parcel rate ...

 

[NHMtns]

According to the manual, you clean the exhaust vent every ton or so. You clean behind the backplate once a week or so. You scrape the grate once a day. You vac the fly ash chamber once a season.

Personally, once you do dial in your stove, you can do less. I scrape the grate, and vac the firebox once every 2 or 3 days depending upon how much I have burned. I clean behind the backplate once every 2 weeks. When I do that, I clean the exhaust vent. So, I clean the exhaust vent more, and inside the stove less. It's possible I clean the vent more because my vent is at the length limit for its size.

We clean the glass, tray and grate every day, the back plate once a week, the smoke chamber we've cleaned once a month or so. I can't find anything in my manual regarding cleaning the flue based on tons. Mine recommends once a month. When the rep came he had to look up a different chart then the one you shared. I have the older model I guess.

 

[NHMtns]

Yes they work but that does not seem to be your problem ... or the least of your problems. We have just a 3' horizontal that terminates with turbo cap - turbo cap also has a screen built-in. What configuration and diameter is your exhaust venting? Bends, t's, length of horizontals and verticals? Do you have an OAK?

When was the last time you talked to the Rep? Did they give you a time frame for part arrival? May want to give them a deadline and think about small claims court... although I personally hate that concept. They are not leaving you a lot of choice as they are running you out of warranty, taken your money in good faith, selling through a dealer that is untrained and you have a stove that doesn't function as advertised. If they knew they had a problem with warping, they should have replacement plates in stock... at PE at least. A week at standard parcel rate ...

What is OAK? Ours has a short rise installation through the wall, as specified in my manual.

We have not heard back from anyone at NE. They were supposed to get back to us. My fiancé had some choice words with them last week when they refused to do anything, but tell us that the soft wood pellets (that they specifically told us to get) were probably not light enough. That we should only burn white pellets. He was like, "really you expect us to inspect every single bag before we use it, and then what? Throw them away? " This after the rep that was at the house a couple weeks before claimed that he can set the stove to burn anything. Which he supposedly did.

I think a conversation tomorrow with a lawyer is an unfortunate but necessary turn of events.

 

[Lake Girl]

OAK - Outside Air Kit.

No word on the plate?

Have you kept track of the brand of pellets you have been using? They are setting you up for this from their manual (page 20 - beech/fir pellets):
Using pellets that are out of date or not in conformity with the manufacturer's recommendations not only damages the stove and jeopardises its performance, but can render the guarantee null and void and relieves the manufacturer of all liability.
http://www.piazzetta.com/files/7113/6846/1510/manual_monia_2013_e.pdf

However, where does that leave them when the authorized dealer sold you the wrong pellets and can't set up/work on the stove?

Page 52 is the important contact information.... may want to go directly to them now.

Good luck - Keep us updated

 

[gusto]

I just looked at the Parameter sheet in the Programming Manual for the Piazzetta and the spec for both the Sabrina and Monia is 109F. Unless the spec has changed. And, according to the manual you can drop it 3Celsius to 40C, which is about 104F.

Your comment and the photo makes me think that the combustion fan is shutting off when its running. How else to explain half-burned pellets, and an overflowing pot?

Seems to me that the fan is shutting off, the pellets continue to drop, but since there's no air, the pot just smolders, leading to half-burned pellets. The pellets continue to drop, until you get a mountain of half-burned pellets filling the whole ash pan, and looking exactly as your picture. Leading to smoke, and pellets up the chute, and the strange smoke staining on your air wash deflector.

So, your combustion fan is turning off, not only early in shutdown, but during its run phase. Either the fan is flaky, or the leads aren't connected tightly, or the motherboard is sending out spurious signals, or the exhaust temp sensor is sending bad readings to the motherboard.

You can check the leads that connect the fan to the mobo. And, you can check the exhaust temp sensor, but checking if it's giving the correct temp readings.

Hold button 6 on your control board down for 5 secs. That will get you into the main menu. Once you're in the main menu, push button 5, twice. That will put you into Stove Status. Push button 3, and that will cycle three readings, combustion fan speed (1900 to 2500rpm), augur feed secs (3 to 8 secs out of a 12 sec cycle), and exhaust temp reading. When the stove is up to speed and running, the exhaust temp will generally be between 200F and 250F, depending upon which feed rate you've chosen.

You should check the Stove Status when it's running to see if the combustion fan is stopping, because that's what I suspect. And, check the temps to see if maybe the temp readings are wrong, sending a shutdown signal to the mobo, and thus the fan.

I'm going to try to embed a jpg of the Programming Manual settings for the Monia:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ta98nidpy0pkqjx/Monia.jpg

If you have dropbox acct, I think you can access the jpg at the above link, if the embedded image doesn't show.

I think the auger should stop if the combustion fan quits (vacuum sensor in series with auger supply)

Later

Regards
gusto

 

[gusto]

Thanks, the back cover of the manual is how I found out that PE was the importer, but my local dealer told me that the unit shipped up from NH, which turns out to be NE distributor that NHMtns has mentioned. Since PE has almost nothing about the Piazzetta on their website, I was distinctly worried that something had happened, and that they were no longer doing business with Piazzetta and that perhaps the NE distributor was selling leftover inventory or something. I'm glad to know that's not the case.

However, since a couple dealers are in this thread, I thought I'd ask a question. I installed my Piazzetta Sabrina myself. Inside the firebox I found the EPA card. If you look at it, the specs on the card are rather odd:

The Heat Output is 8.8k BTU to 37k BTU?!? The card is for the Sabrina not the Monia. What's up with that? I asked my dealer, and he asked if I had gotten a Monia in the box and not a Sabrina, and I said no, since the size difference is obvious, and he seemed satisfied. I still think it's extremely strange to have the EPA card state the wrong range of BTUs. And, while I know the efficiency is asterisked, it is odd that it's about 10% off what the stove is rated for.

Any thoughts? Is this normal for the EPA card to be so off?

My guess , in the spec sheet for the Sabrina they state 47000 Btu max at 5.7 lb per hour ( should read input Btu in my opinion , 5,7 x 8250 Btu/lb = 47025 )
The EPA numbers are the stove output at 80% efficiency ( 47025 x 0.8 = 37620 )

Again just guessing,the wine made me do it

Regards
gusto

 

[NHMtns]

OAK - Outside Air Kit.

No word on the plate?

Have you kept track of the brand of pellets you have been using? They are setting you up for this from their manual (page 20 - beech/fir pellets):
Using pellets that are out of date or not in conformity with the manufacturer's recommendations not only damages the stove and jeopardises its performance, but can render the guarantee null and void and relieves the manufacturer of all liability.
http://www.piazzetta.com/files/7113/6846/1510/manual_monia_2013_e.pdf

However, where does that leave them when the authorized dealer sold you the wrong pellets and can't set up/work on the stove?

Page 52 is the important contact information.... may want to go directly to them now.

Good luck - Keep us updated

No, no word on the plate.

I have the older version Monia according to the rep. My manual on page 20 is installing the external thermostat
On page 18 does not to specifically use beech/fir, it does show that in the chart at the bottom, but in bold print above it states "we recommend that you use high-quality pellets". When the rep kept harping on pellets I told him to show me in the manual where it states to use soft wood pellets. It doesn't. He couldn't. When I asked why, he said that the stoves can be programmed to burn any kind of pellets.

I don't have a page 52. Back cover has contact info for Italy.

 

[NHMtns]

OAK - outside air kit. Provides air for combustion directly from outside rather than the living space.

No word on the plate?

Yes it's set up like that. We have two pipes going through the wall.

 

[chken]

My guess , in the spec sheet for the Sabrina they state 47000 Btu max at 5.7 lb per hour ( should read input Btu in my opinion , 5,7 x 8250 Btu/lb = 47025 )
The EPA numbers are the stove output at 80% efficiency ( 47025 x 0.8 = 37620 )

Again just guessing,the wine made me do it

Regards
gusto

You are correct as far as I'm concerned. The math works at 79% efficiency. Why the dealer couldn't tell me is odd and why Piazzetta or Pacific Energy would want to use an untested average, when the stoves are tested at 88.6%?

 

[chken]

No, no word on the plate.

I have the older version Monia according to the rep. My manual on page 20 is installing the external thermostat
On page 18 does not to specifically use beech/fir, it does show that in the chart at the bottom, but in bold print above it states "we recommend that you use high-quality pellets". When the rep kept harping on pellets I told him to show me in the manual where it states to use soft wood pellets. It doesn't. He couldn't. When I asked why, he said that the stoves can be programmed to burn any kind of pellets.

I don't have a page 52. Back cover has contact info for Italy.

The manual that has the PE contact info was printed in April 2013. Since you have a 2012 stove, unless there was time travel, clearly you have a prior version.

 

[chken]

I think the auger should stop if the combustion fan quits (vacuum sensor in series with auger supply)

Later

Regards
gusto

It should. All the more reason to suspect a mobo malfunction.

 

[Lake Girl]

They may not have had that data at the time of printing the translated manual or left it low so they could not be held to account if stoves sold did not meet that spec.

 

[Lake Girl]

It should. All the more reason to suspect a mobo malfunction.

What manufacture date is on your stove?

NHMtns, what is your date of manufacture?

 

[chken]

What is OAK? Ours has a short rise installation through the wall, as specified in my manual.

We have not heard back from anyone at NE. They were supposed to get back to us. My fiancé had some choice words with them last week when they refused to do anything, but tell us that the soft wood pellets (that they specifically told us to get) were probably not light enough. That we should only burn white pellets. He was like, "really you expect us to inspect every single bag before we use it, and then what? Throw them away? " This after the rep that was at the house a couple weeks before claimed that he can set the stove to burn anything. Which he supposedly did.

I think a conversation tomorrow with a lawyer is an unfortunate but necessary turn of events.

Light, as in color?!? The heating process will even darken softwood pellets.

And, you're right. I looked at my manual, and it states just as you wrote.

The ONLY thing I see is that the ash should be <0.5% which means the pellets should meet the PFI super premium standard.

 

[chken]

We clean the glass, tray and grate every day, the back plate once a week, the smoke chamber we've cleaned once a month or so. I can't find anything in my manual regarding cleaning the flue based on tons. Mine recommends once a month. When the rep came he had to look up a different chart then the one you shared. I have the older model I guess.

Correct, most people equate months with tons and clean based upon actual tonnage or usage, but the manuals typically refer to cleaning schedules based on time.

 

[NHMtns]

What manufacture date is on your stove?

NHMtns, what is your date of manufacture?

My manual states 07/2012

 

[NHMtns]

Light, as in color?!? The heating process will even darken softwood pellets.

And, you're right. I looked at my manual, and it states just as you wrote.

The ONLY thing I see is that the ash should be <0.5% which means the pellets should meet the PFI super premium standard.

Yes light as in color. When we talked to the first guy who came out here, he jumped on the wrong pellet band wagon. When we explained that we bought the exact brand and grade of pellets that was suggested by the second rep, this guy said that we need check to make sure they were uniformly light, almost white because that supposedly mean they are pure. That there are according to him, varying qualities of super supreme pellets.

Quite frankly, if these stoves are this persnickety, I don't want it! I would have never bought such a stove if that was made clear.