Picking the Right stove: Jotul F500 or Woodstock Ideal Steel

[Joe13]

So i know this is talked to death, but I am trying to get some insight. Currently I am building my new home. Its 2700 sq ft, 2x6 constrcution, well insluated, heating system is Forced Hot Air with radiant in the garage. We have plans for a free-standing wood stove and have built a two-flue masonry chimney. (second flue goes to basement for possible extra stove)

Below are plans and some shots of the hearth.

Overall house


First floor



Second Floor



Hearth









So right now, the pad is completed. I will need a stove that is rear exit for obvious reasons, And the wife had chosen the Jotul for its looks and performance. (her mother has one). Ive shown her the woodstock Ideal steel and she likes it as well. I guess my question is which stove would you pick and why? I've ran the Jotul at her moms house before and I found it seemed to chew through wood. I dont know if it was operator error, or possibly I was expecting something different, but It seemed like a overnight burn would be tough. Of course, that was also in a 1800's drafty farmhouse.

 

[Holzstapel]

I can't speak for those specific stoves, but the reason we went with a Jotul was because my in-laws have a Jotul. We are very happy with the Jotul.

 

[marajade]

Would the Jotul fit fully onto the pad? It has a side door that you wouldn't be able to use in an alcove install.
... And you really want to use the side door opening the front door causes a shower of ash

 

[claydogg84]

The Oslo is too small for that sized home. If you insist on Jotul, look at the larger F600. And as far as operating the Oslo previously, I'm guessing you were just throwing wood in it every hour or so? Without putting a solid load in and getting secondary combustion, it will eat through wood just as any other stove will do.

 

[tarzan]

Even tightly sealed that's a big area to heat. My thoughts are the IS would come closer to meeting your heating needs while providing overnight burns.

That being said, a Jotul would look better setting on that hearth. Perhaps you could expand your search.

 

[Grisu]

Interesting that your wife likes those two stoves as they could hardly be looking any more different, IMHO. Will the stove be installed on the 1st floor and is supposed to heat that and the second one? Getting the heat to and up the stairwell may not be that easy judging from your floorplan. Do you have a heat-load analysis for the house or maybe already some real-world heating experience? To highlight some differences between the stoves:

The Jotul F500 is a non-catalytic, secondary combustion stove. Those usually run hot at the beginning of the burn and the temps taper down over time until the stove needs to be reloaded. It is a medium-sized stove with a firebox ~2.3 cu ft which may not be enough to heat your entire home unless it is really well insulated. The F500 is also a more radiant stove so if you want to install it inside your alcove you may lose some heat to the outside unless those walls are well insulated. A radiant stove will also need larger clearances to combustibles; are those walls entirely made from non-combustibles? I would also take a look at the Jotul F55 for a more convective type heater with a bigger firebox and rear-vent.

The Ideal Steel is a secondary burn, catalytic "hybrid" stove. Due to the catalyst the air can be turned down lower for a more even heat output and longer burn times. In a new, well-insulated construction that may feel more comfortable than the larger temp swings of a non-cat. However, the stove can still be dialed up to a higher heat output if the need arises during cold spells. The firebox is quite a bit larger at 3.2 cu ft than the one of the F500. The catalyst may need replacement about every 5 to 8 years but the cost seem to be reasonable; I would inquire with Woodstock. As for any cat stove, only untreated firewood and approved firestarters should be used. (Nothing else should be burned in a non-cat stove either but at least it won't hurt the stove.)

For a well-insulated construction a cat (or hybrid) stove may be the better choice. See if you can add an outside air kit (OAK) especially when your home is rather airtight. A larger firebox ~3 cu ft could be needed if the goal is to heat the entire two upper floors with one stove. Another stove you (your wife) may want to consider is the Hearthstone Manchester.

Any stove will need dry wood with an internal moisture content of less than 20%. How many cords do you have split and stacked sitting in your yard?

 

[Simonkenton]

That is a good looking fireplace, looks like your mason really knows what he is doing.
I am getting an Oslo later this year, but my house is much smaller, and I am going to put the stove in a big 20 x 24 foot room, free standing.

 

[branchburner]

I would go for the IS for the reasons Grisu mentioned: it is going to be nice to be able to dial down the heat output in the fall and spring shoulder seasons, or in the years a mild winter actually returns to the NH/ME coast! A noncat will work well too, but you are more likely, with it, to fill up the stove and find the house getting warmer than needed.

Since the cat burns smoke at a lower temp, you should be able to use less wood, in theory. But as mentioned, it may be less forgiving of the fuel you use... though if thoroughly dry, white pine will be great fuel in those shoulder season months. Plenty of pine in the Pine Tree State.

 

[firefighterjake]

Of the two stoves listed . . . probably the IS.

Like Grisu I found the two choices interesting as one is a more traditional ornate design while the other is more modern with simple lines.

I might expand my list of possibilities . . . thinking big.

If you go with Jotul . . . the F-600 would be the better choice.

 

[JA600L]

I'm biased. I know nothing about the Jotul.
My concern for you is how you plan on getting heat into that master bedroom above the garage.

I suppose you are insulating the garage ceiling isolating it from the radiant heat?

Having bedrooms above a garage makes heating an issue with a wood stove. It makes it worse that the stove is on the opposite end of the house. Is this area on a separate zone? How much of this area are you planning on heating?

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Other than what your wife deemed "pretty," how did you narrow the field to those two stoves?

 

[Rearscreen]

Forced hot air in the house? Radiant in garage? Why not include the house in radiance since you will be more comfortable. Anyway, if you want to spend more money each year or effort each year in wood acquiring, by all means, get the Jotul.

 

[jeff_t]

Did you use a big enough flue to get a stainless liner in it?

Other than what your wife deemed "pretty," how did you narrow the field to those two stoves?

Rear vent seriously limits stove selection.

 

[Joe13]

Thank you for all your replies and I will try to answer it as best I can.

We went with FHA as opposed to radiant for two reasons. We have dogs, and the radiant in the floor can be tough on them, and we wanted Central Air, so it makes sense since we would have the ducting either way.

The house is four zones: Garage, first floor, master suite, rest of the bedrooms.

The pad is designed with the Jotul's side door in mind. I have not looked into the larger Jotul's but that might be a good option.

When I was running the F500, I would pack the box quite full each time. I think the biggest struggle was the size of the home and its insulation levels.

As far as interior temps, We keep our house on the cooler side. Usually somewhere between 62-65 degrees. The garage will be kept at 45 and is well-insulated so the bedroom should be okay. I really am looking for the stove to keep the downstairs warm, and if the upstairs is cooler that is okay.

I currently only have 2.5 cords CSS, simply due to time constraints. I have plans to get more on the ground once I move it, taking advantage of any standing dead I can find. I do not have heating numbers that are reasonable simply because we are still in the build process.

The "alcove" isn't very deep, and the stove will only sit into it maybe 6 inches. the whole surrounding is non-combustables and it is sitting on a concrete pad poured and leveraged onto the foundation, with the bluestone on top.

When it comes to what ive narrowed it down too, I read up on stoves on here, forwarded photos to the wife and she narrowed it down from there. Sadly, looks play a part in the process because of the stoves location. Any other rear exit stoves you could recommend I will gladly run them by her.

Overall, I am not looking to become completely independent in my heating on wood alone. Really I just want the wood stove to help lower heating costs. My old house was on Oil and we had a pellet stove. The stove helped take the load off of the oil and keep the house warmer then it normally would be.

Once again, The help from you guys is awesome! I got some new leads to look into thanks to you folks!

 

[Joe13]

Did you use a big enough flue to get a stainless liner in it?



Rear vent seriously limits stove selection.

The flue is 8x12 masonry (The orange clay looking pieces). I was under the impression that I wont need a liner with this in place unless it cracks?

 

[Woody Stover]

The flue is 8x12 masonry (The orange clay looking pieces). I was under the impression that I wont need a liner with this in place unless it cracks?

The cross-section of 8 x 12 is over three times that of the 6" liner recommended in the manual; That's pushing it. A liner is easier to clean, will draft better and can be insulated which will further improve draft on an exterior chimney. As a rule, the Jotuls want good draft, and the fact that your wood probably won't be optimally dry will hurt draft as well.

 

[begreen]

What is the thimble top edge height over the hearth?

 

[Grisu]

Any other rear exit stoves you could recommend I will gladly run them by her.

Don't know which ones you have checked out yet but those are the options:

Large: Hearthstone Manchester, Jotul F600 or F55, Woodstock Ideal Steel or Progress Hybrid, Quadrafire Isle Royale, HighValley 1600
Medium: Quadrafire Explorer, Jotul F500 or F45, Woodstock Fireview (plus maybe their new stove which is still in testing), Hearthstone Shelburne+Heritage+Castleton, Morso 3610

 

[jotul8e2]

I have a house a bit smaller than yours but in a much milder climate and would definitely not want a stove smaller than my Jotul F500. For your house and climate I should think the F600 would be the only reasonable choice in the Jotul line. The Woodstock Ideal Steel has greater capacity and is almost certainly more efficient than the F500. Jotul claims the F600 will put out more heat than Woodstock claims for the Ideal, but as pointed out above that high heat will come early in the cycle and the heat output will be much lower at the back end of the cycle. In other words, the Ideal (or pretty much any cat stove for that matter) will distribute its heat output more consistently through the load cycle.

 

[Joe13]

What is the thimble top edge height over the hearth?

31 1/4" from hearth to top of thimble.

 

[begreen]

I think you would do well with a 3 cu ft stove. The thimble height will fit many stoves, but he F600 that I was going to recommend has the flue collar top at 31.5" so that's out. The Quadrafire Isle Royale however tops out at 30" and would be a good fit as would the Hearthstone Manchester @ 28.75".

 

[BlackGreyhounds]

Two more to consider: Blaze King Ashford 30 and Pacific Energy T6 Alderlea. Both have front-loading, steel fireboxes wrapped in cast iron, so they would heat and look similar to the Jotuls. BK is a catalytic and PE is non-cat.

 

[begreen]

Both of those stoves are top venting only. Good stoves but they won't work here.

 

[Grisu]

Two more to consider: Blaze King Ashford 30 and Pacific Energy T6 Alderlea. Both have front-loading, steel fireboxes wrapped in cast iron, so they would heat and look similar to the Jotuls. BK is a catalytic and PE is non-cat.

Both don't have a rear-exit for the flue and BK specifically recommends 2 ft of vertical rise before a horizontal section. The stoves mentioned so far are the ones that will work for the OP. He has now to decide which one works best for him.

 

[BlackGreyhounds]

Thanks! Clearly I'm no expert! Please ignore me.