Planning New Woodshed

[bornhunter04]

All,

I'm in the process of planning a new wood shed to build next month and wanted some feedback.

My current planning is, to make it 16' deep x 36' wide.

This will include an 8' x 16' open bay for the trailer, and an 8' x 16' fully enclosed bay for the lawnmower, future log splitter, and storage for other items.

Then it will have 2 16' deep x 6' bays for the wood and a 4' wide walk way that will allow access to the wood from the inside so i can pull my cart inside when it's raining and snowing. This will also give a place to stack uglies in and let them dry. The bays for the wood will be enclosed with 5/4 treated boards with approximately 4-6 inches between the boards running horizontal.

I need between 3 and 4 cords of wood per year based on this years weather to cover burning late oct - mid march.

I plan to stack the wood in the shed from front to back and leave 12+ inches between the rows. This should put the wood to a 90* angle to the prevailing winds. The bays will be 6x14 with 1' overhang on the roof all the way around.

I'll use post support piers and 2x10's or 2x12's to build the base frame so the shed will be approximately 16"+ above the ground and the floor will have 3/4" gaps between the boards for airflow.

We get really good airflow from the West across our driveway and the shed will be in full sun throughout the day.

I just had the though of putting the trailer bay between the storage and wood bays to promote better air flow as i was typing this.

Thoughts?

 

[St. Coemgen]

My view:

Wood shed: Where I put my dried wood. Requirements: as close as possible to the door (that is, the door nearest the wood stove) so I walk the shortest distance in the cold, rain and snow to get more wood. Air flow issues not relevant since the wood in the shed is already dry.

Drying wood: Everyplace else. Where, does not matter much. Wood drying is to get rid of vascular water in the wood. No cover in summer. Let the hot summer sun beat down directly on the wood. The minor bit of summer rain we get here that falls on the outer layers of wood in a pile is not significant to short circuit that overall process (but I do realize that in other places that conclusion may differ). Winds may come from any direction for us (mostly NW but it varies), so I avoid sheds which may limit adaptive placement and stacking methods (I have done various linear and Holzmiete methods in different years in many different places on the property). I think sheds with roofs shade the wood, keeping it cooler when what I really want to do is sun bake the water out (meanwhile, solar "oven" to do that even faster is just too much work for me when I have plenty of "free" sun and time).

Thinking like that, or similar, may help some with "shed" design and placement.

But of course, clearly, with my world view, one should have at least one year's wood in the shed, and one to two years of wood drying someplace else.

 

[tigeroak]

I agree with St. Coemgen About storing wood in the shed that is ready to burn plus close to the door to bring in the house. Now with the 5/4 boards go to home depot and others and ask for the ones they can't sell, like a lot of bark a little crooked and so on. I got all mine at home depot that they could not sell because of that at up to 85% off. This will help on the cost of the building. My storage racks are 4x5 1/2 x 16 with 5/4 floors and ends , 2x6 treated floor joist, 2x4 treated for uprights and 2x4 for flat roof with metal. Every one was less than 85.00 each and can be moved if needed.

 

[tigeroak]

I forgot to say the 3-4 cord as use this year may not be what you use next year. We use on average of close to 5 and we will not use 4 this year. We burn when mama wants a fire. This year was from Sept till today. So If I was you get 5-6 ready for next year then you will be set. I always have no less than 10 cord to burn if needed but 5 at most will have wood left. I am also 5 years ahead on wood too. I am on the far east side of Illinois straight up 70 from you and most of the time what weather you get we get the same.

 

[zig]

Built mine 20 feet from the door so it's easy to get to across the driveway. I used oak pallets I got from work and fiberglass panels off a garage door for the roof. 8ft. deep, 24ft. long and 6ft high in the front. Total cost, the electricity to charge the screwgun. Red paint was left over from something else. My wood drys in the open also but it's the wind that drys it more than the sun.(let the fighting commence)

 

[bornhunter04]

my plan is to keep 2 years worth in the shed and then the 3rd / 4th years (if i can get that far ahead) stacked out in the open. The shed will be close enough to the house to make retrieving wood easy. I have a little garden cart that i can load 2-3 days worth of wood that i bring into the garage.

Thanks for the heads up on the boards, I've been planning on using the cedar tone pressure treated lumber from HD or menards so it looks nicer.

Are 2x6's strong enough for the floor supports? I don't have to use 2x10 or 2x12's but want the structure to be strong enough.

Once winter is over i'll have burned just over 3 cords 1 full cord of that was cedar so i figure if i can get 3-4 cords of hardwood i should be fine.

Any thoughts on the design idea?

 

[tigeroak]

What ever you use for the joists I would put 4x4 treated in the ground with cement at least 2 feet in the ground. That will be a lot of weight to carry over 16 feet span.

 

[Longstreet]

Are 2x6's strong enough for the floor supports? I don't have to use 2x10 or 2x12's but want the structure to be strong enough.

Depends. We need to know a lot more than just what you have given us. What species and grade lumber? What joist spacing are you going to use? How long are the spans going to be between beams/ends? If you can provide all that, we can tell you if 2x6s are enough.

It's not so much are they strong enough - you'd be surprised how much even a single 2x6 can hold without failure. It really comes down to how much deflection (sagging or bounce) you are willing to accept.

My guess (remember, we don't know all of your parameters yet) is that 2x6s under the wood area are good for spans of 6 ft with your design. That'd be at deflection levels greater than residential code minimum but fine for a wood shed.

 

[firefighterjake]

I think I used 2 x 6s . . . maybe it was 2 x 8s in my woodshed floor . . . as mentioned though . . . more info is needed. In my case I had them set something like 12 foot on center and supported underneath every 6 feet or so. I'm thinking -- but could be wrong -- that it may also matter on what you plan to place over the joists for the actual floor . . . I ended up with rough cut planks. There is very little deflection . . . not that I notice at least.

 

[Longstreet]

Just to show you how strong wood is. Probably a half cord(??) of red oak supported by two 2x4s laid flat. Sure they bend, but when that was green wood, they supported 1000 lb+ each at about a 6 ft span.


That crap brickwork isn't the actual house btw, just a storage room under a patio. Almost too embarrassed to show it even then.

 

[bornhunter04]

I was planning on building a square frame and then running 2x? On 24" centers across the span with a concrete block every 4 feet all the way through. Then I'll probably use 5/4 or 2x6 for the floors

 

[hamslam42]

I was planning on building a square frame and then running 2x? On 24" centers across the span with a concrete block every 4 feet all the way through. Then I'll probably use 5/4 or 2x6 for the floors

If you go with 5/4 boards for the floor, I'd recommend 16" centers with 2x6 joists. Wood is heavy!

I used Mendards cedar tone for my shed, I like the look of it. Last year around March they started putting their deck boards (and then 2xs) on clearance...maybe you'll get to take advantage of that too.

 

[jeffesonm]

Does the trailer really need to be covered? Shed space is a premium, and that is a lot taken up by a trailer.

 

[bornhunter04]

I'd prefer to have my trailer covered than just leave it in the great shed. The idea of adding the trailer bay just came to me considering the minimal amount of material it would take to make a bay for it.

 

[Poindexter]

Your local county extension agent should be able to tell you, for free, how many pier blocks you are going to need. You are going to need a lot of them, but your extension agent should know how many pounds per square foot your local soil can support and so on.

It might be economical to use RR ties instead of pier blocks as your footing. i find them easier to level than pier blocks honestly.

You are looking at storing 8 cords on a 16x16 foot floor. Green birch at 4000# per cord would be 32,000 pounds on 192 sqft if you stick with the 4 foot gap in the middle. That's 166#/ sqft on the floor, heavy industrial. Residential floors are generally 40#/ sqft. You are talking about the kind of floor Ford uses under the factory where they build F-150s. Thankfully you only need a small piece of floor, and you can tolerate more deflection under your cord wood than the Ford robot lasers are designed for.

If you are running RR tie skids on 3 to 4 foot centers, perpendicular 2x6 joists with good flooring will probably hold, 2x8 would be pretty stout. If the span on your joists is over 4' between pier blocks I would not use 2x6 joists and be shopping for 2x10.

Air gaps in the floor won't work for me, but when I get to Seattle from here I am halfway to Kansas City. That would be a question for the older successful burners with clean stack plumes in your area.

If you have a catalytic combustor in your stove I think you want to avoid having your cord wood in contact with any PT products.

For the plywood floors in my shed I am using regular painted screws instead of galvanized or the fabulously expensive SS screws. I just drive them in so the head is below the surface of the plywood.

Good luck.

 

[iron]

You are looking at storing 8 cords on a 16x16 foot floor. Green birch at 4000# per cord would be 32,000 pounds on 192 sqft if you stick with the 4 foot gap in the middle. That's 166#/ sqft on the floor, heavy industrial. Residential floors are generally 40#/ sqft. You are talking about the kind of floor Ford uses under the factory where they build F-150s. Thankfully you only need a small piece of floor, and you can tolerate more deflection under your cord wood than the Ford robot lasers are designed for.

166 PSF is practically nothing for 3/4" plywood with joists 16" OC. concrete formwork is commonly designed for 600-900 PSF. it's 3/4" thick (though 12" OC). the 40 PSF in residential is primarily for sizing the joists.

 

[Oldman47]

Iron, that form gets lots of form ties to keep it in line and not have a blowout. It is not the 23/32 ply that is weak but the support that is holding it in place. I have to side with Poindexter insisting on a strong backing for that plywood. That is where the RR ties become a good idea at relatively close spacing so that the 2x lumber does not bend way too much.

 

[iron]

dozens (hundreds?) of people on hearth.com with their big woodsheds have pallets for their floors with 8ft of wood stacked up. that's what, 1x3, with supports at 12" on-center? and the 1x3 is all beaten up on top of that and isn't the highest quality grade. and yet, perfectly fine.

as i understand it, bornhunter is proposing to use 2x at 2ft OC with supports every 4ft. there will be zero issue with 2x4s or 3/4" plywood.

 

[Oldman47]

Being a builder I guess I don't know squat.

 

[Poindexter]

dozens (hundreds?) of people on hearth.com with their big woodsheds have pallets for their floors with 8ft of wood stacked up.

Agreed

that's what, 1x3, with supports at 12" on-center? and the 1x3 is all beaten up on top of that and isn't the highest quality grade. and yet, perfectly fine.

Agreed, except the 2x4s in my local pallets are spaced about 22" apart. How many square feet of dirt is the bottom of the pallet pressing on to carry that load?

as i understand it, bornhunter is proposing to use 2x at 2ft OC with supports every 4ft. there will be zero issue with 2x4s or 3/4" plywood.

I agree with everything in this snip except "zero".

I agree that 2x4 and 3/4 @2'OC will hold the load. But it will flex and rebound, flex and rebound. What we don't know is how much deflection he is willing to tolerate. Every time that flex system cycles, the fasteners are working the holes they are in a little bigger and a little bigger.

My point of view is this is a fairly massive project for a homeowner to undertake. Unless he is a full time contractor by day of course.

Personally when I take on something this big I don't want to have to redo it in this lifetime. I personally would want a project like that to still be a solid usable structure that adds value to my estate at the auction after my death, rather than a waiting demolition job that lowers the value of the property, or something I have to do over in ten years.

So yes, I do overbuild some.

 

[iron]

pallets: i don't care what the bearing area is. i am talking about the "deck" of the pallets. they are junk material. they hold wood just fine and and the preferred choice of many hearth members.

wood size: all wood that spans from A to B will flex. so your 2x12s will be shot then too.

i like to overbuild as well, but i am a structural engineer and probably don't know anything.

 

[Poindexter]

Well, I'm just a biologist with a hobby shop.

 

[bornhunter04]

Thanks for the info. Upon further reflection, I'll probably end up going 16" centers and space the support piers closer together. I tend to over build things because that's how i was taught. I'm going to build this shed well and make it look nice since it'll be viewed from the house. That's why i'm intending to use cedar toned pressure treated wood, so it'll look good and last. I'll post updated plans when i get them drawn out.

By going with 16" centers i should be able to stack my rows right over the supports to help minimize any sag in the floor.