Pleasant Hearth WS-2417 install/challenges/questions/observations

[Das Jugghead]

A little background:

I purchased a Pleasant Hearth WS-2417 about two weeks ago from Menards on sale. It is my first EPA stove and I am a moderately experienced wood stove operator. It is installed in my fireplace and connected to an insulated flexible stainless steel liner. I installed the liner myself over a two day period replete with swearing of a magnitude unlike any I have uttered before. The chimney is on an exterior wall. Ultimately the insulation on the liner pulled loose somewhere in the flue and I was unable to advance the liner any further nor pull it back out. I was able to reach the bottom of the liner through the damper and made the decision to cut the top of the excess liner and use a coupler (along with gasket cement and stove sealer) to connect the excess trimmed from the top to the bottom of the liner through the damper. While less than ideal it did work.

I have read quite a few complaints on the internet about people having difficulty getting this particular stove to draw adequately. I have exactly the opposite problem. I have approximately 28 feet of insulated liner above the stove and my chimney cap is several feet above the ridge line of my roof. I have a block off plate at the top of the fireplace firebox. I stuffed the damper opening with rock wool and filled the space between the damper and the block off plate with rock wool as well. I also insulated between the back wall of the fire place and the back of the stove with rock wool. There is a shield on the back of the stove for air to flow up and over the top of the stove via means of convection or a blower - I did not opt for a blower as my wife did not want to hear a blower running.

Today I built angled plates over the top of the stove to help move convective air from the stove out of the fireplace. The convection current exiting the top of the fireplace is enough to hold a paper napkin straight out and even straight up at times. I feel like the stove would be more efficient if it sat further out of the fireplace onto the hearth but due to the angle of approach through the damper that was not an option. One of the things we wanted to do was to avoid having to break or cut the damper so that the fireplace could be returned to a functioning fireplace if we ever decided to sell the house.

So as I mentioned above many people have complained about draft with this stove and I am experiencing the opposite. This stove draws ridiculously well in my circumstances. It is a little different getting the stove up to temperature with having the door cracked open for 10 or 20 minutes but once the thermometer on top of the stove clears roughly 250 degrees the door gets closed and temperatures increase rapidly from there. The stove typically cruises around 400 for a few hours with the primary damper closed. It produces enough heat that our furnace set at 60 degrees has yet to cycle. The house is around 3,000 well insulated sqft divided between two floors. I burn mostly birch and a few isolated splits of oak. During the winters I mostly work from home so I am able to attend to the stove which is required every 2 or 3 hours.

I realize this is a lengthy introduction but I wanted to be sure to try and provide as much relevant information as possible before describing the problems we are having.

Our burn times are around 2 to 3 hours whereas the stove is advertised to run 6 to 8 hours of burn time. Last night in an effort to get a fire to last longer through the night I fully loaded it running the splits north to south. Within half an hour with the damper in the fully closed position stove temperatures exceeded 600 degrees with no indication of slowing down. The damper on this stove does not fully close and so there was no way to damper it down any further. Fortunately I had some leftover rock wool on hand and by using a brick beneath the primary air intake to support the rock wool I was able to seal it off fairly well. Then the secondary air intake kicked into play and the temperatures started climbing again. Feeling around under the stove I was able to locate the secondary air intake and stuff it closed with rock wool as well. Even with both intakes closed off the fire burned at 600 degrees for several hours.

Despite having a secondary air intake and secondary air tubes I have been unable to get a secondary burn going and I suspect this may be the reason for the short burn times we are experiencing. What conditions or factors need to be present to achieve a secondary burn?

Many thanks in advance for any advice anyone may have to offer.

 

[jatoxico]

600 stove top is not that hot but if you feel you can't control the stove have you checked that the door gasket is sealing (see dollar bill test)? Door latch may need adjusting.

Back to temps 400 stove top sounds too low to support sustained secondary burn. This may indicate wet or at least marginal wood. This is somewhat supported by needing 20 min to get fire going. Wet wood will burn cool and not provide good secondary burn.

Other thoughts; if you can get them, bigger (dry) splits burn longer. You can try loading E/W to slow a burn down as well. Don't reload on too large a coal bed or you can go nuclear pretty quick. Maybe try some lumber scraps go ahead and burn hot then see if the secondaries fire better.

 

[Das Jugghead]

Hey Jatoxio thanks for the response.

I will do the dollar bill test today to determine the integrity of the door seal.

The reason I was concerned with the 600+ degree temperatures is the thermostat indicates that to be too hot. The thermostat currently sits on top of the stove - would it be better to have it on the flue collar for accuracy?

Insofar as the 20 minute start times this is not to get a fire started but rather to get the stove to around 250 degrees before closing the door. I was not very clear about that in my original post and I apologize for the confusion. The manufacturer recommends having the door cracked until the fire is burning sufficiently. There are a fair number of online complaints of users who experience their fires going out as soon as they close the door. My observation is that they have insufficient draft, wet wood, or a combination of the two. I know my draft is good and I suspect my wood is not properly seasoned. I will run out to see if I can get a moisture meter today and test it.

The firebox on this stove is exceedingly small in comparison to stoves I have run in the past. At best it will hold 3, maybe 4, good sized pieces of wood being approximately 3 or 4 inches square on their ends and 16 inches long. I usually load the stove east to west with the described wood and at best I get 2 to 3 hours of burn down to coals. Again I suspect wet wood even though there is no hissing or evidence of moisture being driven from the wood. I even "pre-warm" the wood by standing it around the stove or laying it on the hearth in front of the stove prior to loading it in the firebox. I may take a look through the woodpile to see if I have any logs that are 6 inches in diameter and see if I can fit one in the stove to see how that does.

I have some oak pallets that I will break down today. I will burn some of those to see how it does in terms of getting the secondaries to fire.

Thanks again for you response, observations, and recommendations.

 

[jatoxico]

The reason I was concerned with the 600+ degree temperatures is the thermostat indicates that to be too hot. The thermostat currently sits on top of the stove - would it be better to have it on the clue collar for accuracy?

Some thermos are marked for use on the stove pipe. If used on the top ignore the ranges and just worry about absolute temp.

The manufacturer recommends having the door cracked until the fire is burning sufficiently. There are a fair number of online complaints of users who experience their fires going out as soon as they close the door.

There are also a fair (majority?) of users who have wet wood. See what your moisture meter says about yours. The proper procedure is to test the surface of a freshly split, room temperature log or split. Very important its not a cold piece of wood from outside.

 

[Das Jugghead]

Some thermos are marked for use on the stove pipe. If used on the top ignore the ranges and just worry about absolute temp.

Copy that - I will check into if the thermostat is for top use or for use on the stove pipe itself. It does not have a probe so it is not mean to measure flue gas temperatures.

There are also a fair (majority?) of users who have wet wood. See what your moisture meter says about yours. The proper procedure is to test the surface of a freshly split, room temperature log or split. Very important its not a cold piece of wood from outside.

I am pretty confident that my wood is too moist but the true test will be to split a piece and measure it with the meter. On that note what moisture content should I be below?


Another thought popped in my head and that is I wonder if I have too much draft? Is that a possibility in terms of how fast the wood burns (aside from birch being a relatively soft wood)?

 

[moresnow]

Sounds like you were just getting the stove in the sweet spot when you stopped it? Secondaries burning is a good thing.

 

[Das Jugghead]

Sounds like you were just getting the stove in the sweet spot when you stopped it?

You may be correct. As I said above the reason I stopped it was because the thermostat indicated the burn was too hot. As of now I am going to try and get it to fire at 600-700 degrees and see what happens.

Secondaries burning is a good thing.

Yes, I agree. However I have yet to get the secondaries to actually ignite. When the stove took off the night before last night and I plugged the primary air intake shut the stove began drafting though the secondary inlet and the temperatures continued to climb. Even though the stove was drafting through the secondary inlet the secondaries still did not ignite or engage. I apologize if this is unclear in my original post.

I do think that once I can figure out the method with this stove to get the secondaries burning that my burn times will increase (hopefully).

 

[jatoxico]

When the stove took off the night before last night and I plugged the primary air intake shut the stove began drafting though the secondary inlet and the temperatures continued to climb. Even though the stove was drafting through the secondary inlet the secondaries still did not ignite or engage.

As you shut down the primary air stove top temp (STT) will typically rise as you are retaining more heat and sending less up the chimney. With good control there is eventually a tipping point where you feed so little primary air that the "primary" fire slows and temps may settle in (cruise) or even drop.

Remember you need to send enough heat up the stack to avoid excessive creosote formation. Especially true if you have wet wood and the smoke is more heavily laden with water vapor so be careful chasing burn times or cutting primary attempting to get secondary burn. With wet wood burners may see little 2nd activity especially early in the cycle.

Have you gone outside to see what coming out of the stack? Under certain conditions you may see water vapor which is normal even with good dry wood (still contains 20% moisture and H20 is a by product of combustion) which will disappear a few feet from the stack. Actual smoke will drift away and be visible until its diluted enough. Normally you can't tell I'm having a fire by looking at my chimney.

Edit: not sure about Summers heat stove but most stoves have 3 forms of air. Primary you can control and two you can't. The 2ndary and doghouse air which typically feeds at the center base.

 

[Das Jugghead]

As you shut down the primary air stove top temp (STT) will typically rise as you are retaining more heat and sending less up the chimney. With good control there is eventually a tipping point where you feed so little primary air that the "primary" fire slows and temps may settle in (cruise) or even drop.

Remember you need to send enough heat up the stack to avoid excessive creosote formation. Especially true if you have wet wood and the smoke is more heavily laden with water vapor so be careful chasing burn times or cutting primary attempting to get secondary burn. With wet wood burners may see little 2nd activity especially early in the cycle.

Have you gone outside to see what coming out of the stack? Under certain conditions you may see water vapor which is normal even with good dry wood (still contains 20% moisture and H20 is a by product of combustion) which will disappear a few feet from the stack. Actual smoke will drift away and be visible until its diluted enough. Normally you can't tell I'm having a fire by looking at my chimney.

Edit: not sure about Summers heat stove but most stoves have 3 forms of air. Primary you can control and two you can't. The 2ndary and doghouse air which typically feeds at the center base.

I just performed the dollar bill test and all good there.

Thermometer on top of stove indicates just north of 500 degrees and walking outside there is nothing coming out of the chimney. I do have the primary intake damped down as far as it will go.

Next up I will try and run up north of 600 degrees and see if I can get the secondaries to ignite. I am also going to cut up some scrap 2 x 4's to see how that wood burns in the stove. I am still leaning toward wet wood being the culprit.

As soon as I have a moisture meter I will get a reading on a piece at room temperature right after I split it and see what's what.


I wanted to thank everyone who has chimed in here in such a timely fashion - I really appreciate the help.

 

[jatoxico]

Another thought, the parts explosion in the manual of your stove isn't great but I see there is an insulation baffle. Is this installed? Won't work w/o it.

 

[kennyp2339]

Excessive draft.

 

[Das Jugghead]

Another thought, the parts explosion in the manual of your stove isn't great but I see there is an insulation baffle. Is this installed? Won't work w/o it.

This is an interesting question and brings into play Pleasant Hearth's abysmal customer service. Upon unpacking the stove this was the first thing I noticed and I called customer service where I was on hold for almost an hour before getting to speak to anyone. I explained the missing insulation blanket and they said they would send one. A few days later I received the actual baffle itself which is no longer made up of multiple fire bricks. Never mind that it is too large of a piece to install into the stove after production, never mind that it is not the part I requested, never mind that there already was a baffle in the stove. (broken link removed)

I called again and asked for the blanket. I directed their attention to the online manual and explained slowly what I was missing. I was told by customer service that the manual is outdated and that the insulation blanket is no longer needed. At this point I am beginning to wonder if I should make one out of rock wool and install it into the stove to see what happens. The final takeaway from my rant about the insulation blanket is that the customer service department stated that it was no longer needed because the baffle is now one single piece.

On other notes I bought a moisture meter and have confirmed some of the wood to be too moist and some of it right at 15% moisture. Currently I have a full load of dry wood in the stove and running at more than 600 degrees with the damper closed all the way down but still no secondary burn.

I also checked the thermometer and it is supposed to be installed vertically on the stove pipe 2 feet above the top of the stove. Since the stove is installed in the fireplace this is not possible. I also bought an infrared thermometer to check how accurate the mechanical thermometer is.

 

[jatoxico]

I saw that too. The online manual and the one you referenced have two different systems for the baffle. The only reason I brought it up is that some manufacturers seem to ship with the blanket/baffle not installed and some installers leave them out or forget etc.

So what's there now, is it complete? If not why doesn't the baffle they sent work? Because you need the two baffle setup or because you can't figure out how to get it in there?

 

[Das Jugghead]

I saw that too. The online manual and the one you referenced have two different systems for the baffle. The only reason I brought it up is that some manufacturers seem to ship with the blanket/baffle not installed and some installers leave them out or forget etc.

Mine came with one solid baffle, no bricks to install, and no ceramic blanket.

So what's there now, is it complete? If not why doesn't the baffle they sent work? Because you need the two baffle setup or because you can't figure out how to get it in there?

The baffle they sent would probably work if I ever needed to replace the one currently in the stove but it would require removing the air tubes and some serious contortionist moves to get it in there. Even the lady at customer service indicated that the baffle is installed at the production facility prior to welding the top on the stove. The baffle they sent was not what I asked for - I asked for the ceramic blanket.

 

[Das Jugghead]

Just ran across this review - looks like wood may be the culprit in terms of short burn times/lack of secondary burn.

"2nd season with it

4 years ago

So I waited a year to write the review. I installed this stove in March or so of 2014. It was a floor model from Lowes and it was missing some pieces, GHP group mailed these parts right to me without an issue. I was replacing a boxwood stove that I experimented with on burning wood to help reduce how much oil I was using. I enjoyed burning wood (its alot of hard work though) but the boxwood ate the wood so fast, so I wanted a better stove. I initially was slightly let down by the quality of fire and heat that the stove produced but I figured out it was the quality of the wood I was using (not really seasoned, late season purchase) draft was still good even without a liner since I have an inside chimney, but it would take longer to really start drafting good. But I noticed that the fuel blocks(compressed sawdust blocks) burned incredibly well. So it was back to wood quality. So this summer I added a chimney liner and worked really hard to have all my wood split in the spring so it seasoned all summer,(even built a really cool little wood shed) and started burning a couple of weeks ago and its a world of difference. You still need to get the flue warm, (I think it does really well when it gets to 200 degrees) but if you follow the directions for lighting off the stove you should not have a problem. (newspaper or even the firestarters) The main floor of the house is 1200 square feet and the stove is in the basement it can easily heat the upstairs and basement without even loading the stove fully. So key things to remember dry seasoned wood I noticed that Ash is really good along with oak. (the difference between my shed wood at 11% moisture content and the open air seasoned wood at 17% is easily 100 degrees or more with less inlet air and a larger fire) and a good chimney set-up. Take your time with these 2 items and any other faults will become secondary to how warm your home will be. Other items to help is some welders gloves they help to load the stove when there is a good bed of coals going, stove polish to keep it looking nice, wood stove glass cleaner. Burn time for the wood is about 3 hours, but good heat is thrown for about 6 and sometimes longer depending if you turn the coals over. If you use the fuel blocks and the stove was clean when starting and fully loaded 5 hour burn time is not unrealistic, and you got to learn the stove to figure how long it will throw heat verse watching a fire in the fire box.
rpp05 · Reviewed on lowes.com"

Click on "Reviews" on the top right to read original it opens in another smaller window and is the fourth review down.

 

[kennyp2339]

When they were using bricks as the baffle they needed to be insulated with a ceramic blanket, now that they use a baffle board (which has insulating properties) a blanket is no longer needed.
Best way to install the board is to leave the furthest air tube in, take the others out, set the board then reinstall the tubes, remember the board will need to be removed during cleaning, the baffle board will become brittle over time so handle with care.

 

[Das Jugghead]

When they were using bricks as the baffle they needed to be insulated with a ceramic blanket, now that they use a baffle board (which has insulating properties) a blanket is no longer needed.

Makes sense. Its a shame I get customer service answers from a forum rather than from the company. I appreciate your explanation.

Best way to install the board is to leave the furthest air tube in, take the others out, set the board then reinstall the tubes, remember the board will need to be removed during cleaning, the baffle board will become brittle over time so handle with care.

Thanks for the insight. When I clean the stove I will be sure to post up how it goes.

 

[Das Jugghead]

Well I have made some changes to the set up and am getting a little better heat from the stove despite the wet wood situation.

The first thing I did was to insulate the fireplace on both sides and the back with rock wool insulation. I then covered the insulation with aluminum flashing. This really helped in heat output but no way of telling if it extended burn times. I also fabricated some sloped aluminum plates to go on top of the stove - they start at the very back of the stove about an inch above the stove top and angle up to the front. The intent being to help compliment the convective action over the top of the stove and thereby move that hot air out into the room a little more efficiently. The insulation of the fireplace and the angled aluminum plates over the top of the stove have made a noticeable difference in heat output but nothing extraordinary. It was definitely worth doing and I will redo it for a cleaner/better install in the spring when I pull the stove for cleaning and inspection.

The second thing I did was to load the stove North-South as often as possible with smaller splits. I am cutting down the length of my firewood anyway and so I cut as much of it for the North-South length as possible. I had originally cut all my firewood to length for the fireplace as we had not anticipated installing a wood stove this year so it all has to be re-cut anyway. I have also been splitting it down into smaller splits. This makes packing the stove easier and it gives more surface area as well. I still pre-warm the wood bay laying it on the hearth in front of the stove.

I have also learned to run longer cycle times - not necessarily longer burn times. I am not sure if this makes sense but I have flames and wood for about two hours and then coals for another hour or so that produce heat as well. With the aforementioned North-South loading and smaller splits I am also achieving secondary burns. I let it burn down to coals and then rake/sift the ash and coals. Unless I am actually removing ash I sift the ash to the back of the stove and rake the coals forward. I also clear the channel along the front of the door frame where the primary air enters the firebox as I have found that ash tends to build up and block that channel.

I am still dealing with wet wood and very little I can do about that at the moment. Next season will be better in that respect. In order to burn as clean as possible I am burning faster than I would like. It is what it is. I also think I may be dealing with excessive draft although I have no way to confirm or debunk that theory at this time. At some point I will figure that out. For the record I have double the amount of liner above the stove than the manufacturer's minimum recommended flue height. I am experimenting with using a spare piece of rock wool insulation to completely block off the primary intake inlet. On this particular stove inlet for the primary air is designed in such a way that the inlet cannot be completely closed. The picture below shows the primary damper in the fully "closed" position. In the "closed" position the inlet has an open space about a square inch in area. I used to the rock wool to block this off and force the stove to draft through the secondary inlet which is about .75" x 1.5" in cross section.



Here is the secondary air inlet:


I suppose it really boils down to the fact that you get what you pay for. It is unrealistic to expect a cheap stove to perform anywhere close to a quality wood stove - or even close to the manufacturer's stated burn times. I am toying with the idea of fabricating a damper system that is capable of truly sealing the intake in the closed position - that will depend on how my experiments go with using the rock wool to seal off the primary intake.

 

[Das Jugghead]

So I made some significant modifications to my little wood stove that have yielded some very nice improvements.

My son and I redid the concrete backer board block off plate so that it was all one piece. This involved letting the stove burn out and pulling it out of the fireplace. The process took about six hours of taking our time and thinking through each step. While we were at it we also fabricated new aluminum pieces for both the top and sides of the fireplace. When we reinstalled everything we added more rock wood insulation as well.

I have been experimenting with different burning methods and loading methods. Wherever possible I load north-south which produces more heat for a little longer heating cycle but not much overall.

A few days ago I had an idea that was based partly on my suspicion that the stove was drafting too hard and inspired by the thread Washers in re-burn tubes. As mentioned, in a post above, the primary air damper does not close all the way on this stove. It is a design aspect intended to provide an air wash for the stove door glass. If in fact I had excessive draft then reducing this opening would not adversely affect the air wash. I did a test using a set of fender washers and a nut and bolt. The results were a much longer burn and some secondary action. Three hour burns, more heat output, and longer usable heat from coals.



Next up was the secondary air intake. My thought was if there was too much draft I needed to slow it down. If I was going to slow it down I may as well capitalize upon the slower air by heating it as much as possible and maybe just maybe I could encourage some secondary burn as well. The secondary air intake for the stove is a vertical square tube measuring approximately .5" x 1.5" x 10" tall. If I could slow the air down, thereby increasing exposure time to the heat of the back of the firebox I could heat it up more. If I could tumble it with fins I could heat it more and slow it down more and heat the air more evenly. Injecting uniformly heated air has to have some advantage or benefit over incoming air that has hot spots and cold spots - at least in my mind it should. So I fabricated a rudimentary finned panel that could be installed in the secondary tube as a test. The result was astonishing to me. Much hotter burn, much more heat production, secondary burn out the waazoo, and much longer heat cycle.

The stove was still drawing strong and I still wanted to damper down the primary more and I had the perfect piece of plate steel for the job. I installed a rectangular piece of steel to help close the damper down a little more. Here are four pictures showing the installation and the positioning of the primary intake damper. Even in the fully "closed" position there is a gap between the installed plate and the damper plate of approximately a quarter of an inch. The path the intake air has to travel is restricted enough to slow it down yet still allow the air wash aspect to function.




I made a better planned aluminum piece to go in the secondary intake tube to slow the air and tumble it as much as possible.



So what improvements have I seen with these modifications?

• Nearly six hours of honest usable heat
• Fabulous secondary burns
• Significantly improved heat output
• Stove lights from a modest coal bed to well over 500 degrees in about 10 minutes (previously 20-30 minutes)
• Reduced wood consumption

Next up I am going to fabricate an insulated OAK and see how much of a difference that makes. I know in its current configuration by drawing combustion air from the volume of the house the wood stove is drawing cold outside air into the living space. If I can reduce or eliminate that condition I should see an improvement in the overall comfort level in the house.

 

[Das Jugghead]

I did another round of fabricating and testing with the baffles for the secondary air intake in an effort to get longer burns and more heat out of the stove.

Here is the first attempt:



This did slow down the burn and help get a little more secondary action but I still felt like I could do more.

This was the next test:



The area of the tabs removed was reduced to slow down the incoming air and the baffle itself was a little bit wider to better seal the baffles in the intake tube. Once the secondaries fire they go for about two hours. They are a little less vigorous and we are still getting right at 5 hours of usable heat from the stove. The secondaries are also a little more uniform along the length of the tubes. I really think the best approach will be to install washers in the burn tubes in the spring when I pull the stove for flue cleaning and inspection.

I still need to come up with a method to better control the primary intake that allows the air wash to get what it needs while regulating how fast the primary air enters the stove.

 

[Woodcutter Tom]

Das,

I hope you continue this thread. I purchased a WS2417 and installed it last Thanksgiving. It is my first attempt at using a wood burning stove.
My house is about 1000 square feet, single story with brick exterior. I do not have the extreme draft situation that you describe. I initially had about 13 feet of total chimney length. That was the minimum requirement for the stove. In February I added another 2 feet. I noticed an increase in the draft. I think that is going to be acceptable for me. If I add any more I will need to support the chimney sections above the roof.

I am hoping to see what you come up with for an outside air intake. I am considering doing the same. When I stand in the bathroom I feel cold air coming in from the exhaust vent. I had thought that the 'flapper' on the vent cover on the roof was stuck in the open position. Then I realized that the negative pressure created by the stove was sucking the air in thru the vent. I also feel the cold air when I sit in a chair between the bathroom and the stove. I do not wish to suck cold air into the house and have it flow to the stove. I would prefer to have fresh outside air go directly to the stove. I will be working on an outside air intake setup this summer. I am also interested in what you come up with. Thanks for your postings.

 

[Das Jugghead]

Das,

I hope you continue this thread. I purchased a WS2417 and installed it last Thanksgiving. It is my first attempt at using a wood burning stove.
My house is about 1000 square feet, single story with brick exterior. I do not have the extreme draft situation that you describe. I initially had about 13 feet of total chimney length. That was the minimum requirement for the stove. In February I added another 2 feet. I noticed an increase in the draft. I think that is going to be acceptable for me. If I add any more I will need to support the chimney sections above the roof.

I am hoping to see what you come up with for an outside air intake. I am considering doing the same. When I stand in the bathroom I feel cold air coming in from the exhaust vent. I had thought that the 'flapper' on the vent cover on the roof was stuck in the open position. Then I realized that the negative pressure created by the stove was sucking the air in thru the vent. I also feel the cold air when I sit in a chair between the bathroom and the stove. I do not wish to suck cold air into the house and have it flow to the stove. I would prefer to have fresh outside air go directly to the stove. I will be working on an outside air intake setup this summer. I am also interested in what you come up with. Thanks for your postings.

Hey Tom,

I am doing some basic maintenance/cleaning of the stove today since it is going to rain all day here. If I can find the time after replacing gaskets I will head to the local box store to look for stainless steel washers for the secondary burn tubes and to look through ideas for the fresh air intake (OAK). I am leaning toward using 2" gas pipe for the intake and insulating it with rock wool.

I have been musing over a few approaches to designing a manifold to regulate how much air goes to the primaries and how much goes to the secondaries. Not sure I will get to that step today.

 

[Woodcutter Tom]

Das,

I am going to replace my window and door gaskets also. Did you but them from ghpgroupinc.com or somewhere else?


I have not yet build my air intake, but here are my plans. My stove sits on a pedestal in the corner of a room. It is angled 45 degrees from the walls.

I will build an 'airbox' approximately 6" wide; 13 1/2 " deep; 8 1/2" high. This will be a 5 sided box with the top open. The box will slide over the existing stove area that holds the current air intake openings and adjustment slide. Material will be sheet metal. The box will probably be made of 3 pieces. One 6" x 13 1/2" x 8 1/2" "U" shaped (with square corners). This is the main body. Two pieces that are slightly bigger than 6" x 8 1/2" with 1" 'flaps' along both 8 1/2" sides and along one of the 6" sides. These are the front and back. The flaps will slide over the main body and will be used to seal and rivet the front and back to the main body.

I will cut a hole in the rear of the airbox. I will also cut a hole in the left side of the airbox. The size will be the proper size to accommodate a 4" duct work takeoff. I will use 4" solid tubing coming out of the rear and out of the side. At some point along these tubes, I will install 4" blast gates. Blast gates are used to restrict air flow in work shop dust collection systems. 4" tubing fits over the end of a 4" blast gate. With the blast gates, I will have the option of having complete outside air, complete inside air or a mixture of both.

My outside air tubing will connect to a 45 degree fitting before continuing to the wall. I will make the proper size hole in the wall and run the tube through it. I plan on some type of fitting on both sides of the wall that will support the tubing. (something like a 4" toilet bowl flange but nicer looking)
Once I am through the wall I will turn the tubing 90 degrees and run it straight up,(probably just 4 feet or so) then put in fittings to make a 180 degree turn so the end face down. Somewhere in this run I will put another blast gate.

I am going to pull my air from the adjacent room which is an unheated, un-insulated large room with a large door that opens upward. This room has enough natural openings for air flow, but is not open enough that wind and weather will adversely effect the intake. Some people refer to this as a garage.

I do not have any plans to fiddle with the primary and secondary intakes. When I am burning wood, I see flames dancing in the air, and I do not have any smoke coming out of the chimney. I have never seen the stove temperatures you describe. I am at 15 feet of chimney length above the stove top. You stated 28 feet. I think your chimney gives you such a strong draw that you needed to slow it down. If you are happy with your current revisions, great, or perhaps incorporate something into the air intake.

 

[Das Jugghead]

Das,

I am going to replace my window and door gaskets also. Did you but them from ghpgroupinc.com or somewhere else?


I have not yet build my air intake, but here are my plans. My stove sits on a pedestal in the corner of a room. It is angled 45 degrees from the walls.

I will build an 'airbox' approximately 6" wide; 13 1/2 " deep; 8 1/2" high. This will be a 5 sided box with the top open. The box will slide over the existing stove area that holds the current air intake openings and adjustment slide. Material will be sheet metal. The box will probably be made of 3 pieces. One 6" x 13 1/2" x 8 1/2" "U" shaped (with square corners). This is the main body. Two pieces that are slightly bigger than 6" x 8 1/2" with 1" 'flaps' along both 8 1/2" sides and along one of the 6" sides. These are the front and back. The flaps will slide over the main body and will be used to seal and rivet the front and back to the main body.

I will cut a hole in the rear of the airbox. I will also cut a hole in the left side of the airbox. The size will be the proper size to accommodate a 4" duct work takeoff. I will use 4" solid tubing coming out of the rear and out of the side. At some point along these tubes, I will install 4" blast gates. Blast gates are used to restrict air flow in work shop dust collection systems. 4" tubing fits over the end of a 4" blast gate. With the blast gates, I will have the option of having complete outside air, complete inside air or a mixture of both.

My outside air tubing will connect to a 45 degree fitting before continuing to the wall. I will make the proper size hole in the wall and run the tube through it. I plan on some type of fitting on both sides of the wall that will support the tubing. (something like a 4" toilet bowl flange but nicer looking)
Once I am through the wall I will turn the tubing 90 degrees and run it straight up,(probably just 4 feet or so) then put in fittings to make a 180 degree turn so the end face down. Somewhere in this run I will put another blast gate.

I am going to pull my air from the adjacent room which is an unheated, un-insulated large room with a large door that opens upward. This room has enough natural openings for air flow, but is not open enough that wind and weather will adversely effect the intake. Some people refer to this as a garage.

I do not have any plans to fiddle with the primary and secondary intakes. When I am burning wood, I see flames dancing in the air, and I do not have any smoke coming out of the chimney. I have never seen the stove temperatures you describe. I am at 15 feet of chimney length above the stove top. You stated 28 feet. I think your chimney gives you such a strong draw that you needed to slow it down. If you are happy with your current revisions, great, or perhaps incorporate something into the air intake.

Hey Tom,

I got the door gasket from Menards (Red Devil) and I ended up reinstalling the original gasket for the glass. Turns out that the clips that hold the door glass in had warped and were not compressing the gasket. I installed some stainless steel washers on the bolts to get the clips to make contact with the glass again. So far it looks like I have good compression of the gasket. I had picked up a flat gasket for the glass from Menards as well but did not like how porous it was which is why I opted to reuse the original gasket. I will have to look around to find a quality replacement gasket.

Your plan for the air intake is pretty much what I was planning on doing. Instead of rivets I had been thinking of using long stainless steel band clamps to attach it so that I could remove it for modifications.

What is this fabled "garage" of which you speak?

 

[Das Jugghead]

So in working on a method to slow down the air entering the secondary burn tubes I have found that a nut that fits a 9/16 wrench fits almost perfectly into the end of of the tube. Tomorrow I will pick up six stainless steel nuts, file the corners slightly so that they can be slip-fit, and using a bolt threaded into the nut I will install them into the ends of the secondary burn tubes. I may heat the ends of the tubes with a propane torch to cause them to expand and install the nuts that way.