A letter asking for clarification on the spec?
Or also mentioning the 200+ degree trim? For the trim I think they can say, "Run the fan"
Please help me interpret install spec. I'm pretty sure I'm getting scammed
- Thread starter matto
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Or also mentioning the 200+ degree trim? For the trim I think they can say, "Run the fan"
Yes. Any communication you need to have with the installer can be with UPS signature. If signed, that shows they got the letter and allows ground to apply legal action if required.
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If they say that you have to run the fan for the instdll to be safe i would call bs. What happens if the power goes out?
Oh you meant send the letter requesting the interpretation of the specifications to the installer, not Vermont Castings?
I do already have the installer's interpretation in an email. What does this get me?
I like it.
The idea being: I am entitled to a written confirmation of how to interpret the install specifications of the stove, for insurance purposes.
If they interpret it as "< 1.5", I follow up with the installer, saying "My stove isn't to spec"
If they interpret it as "> 1.5" I follow up with VC saying my mantle is 200+ and your spec is unsafe
If they all refuse to answer...... I'm still SOL I guess.
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The interpretation seems to be a sideline. If I read what you have shown correctly, there is no spec that your install conforms to. The 1.5" is unambiguous to me but it is a moot point when you have combustibles 32.75" above from the hearth and the insert requirement says 47.5" to the nearest trim or mantel. You may be confusing the issue by asking for clarification of the spec. Yes the documentation poorly written, but that is besides the point. In the documentation they provide guidelines for clearances to combustibles. Your top trim is too close. No need to debate about its thickness.
After confirming that your fireplace is the right size,
check the clearance to combustibles. First mark with
tape the exact center of your fireplace opening on the
hearth. Measure the side clearance from this point.
Measure the top trim and/or mantel clearances from the
finished hearth surface. Measure the front clearance (to
furnishings, etc.) from the fireplace face. (Fig. 4)
After confirming that your fireplace is the right size,
check the clearance to combustibles. First mark with
tape the exact center of your fireplace opening on the
hearth. Measure the side clearance from this point.
Measure the top trim and/or mantel clearances from the
finished hearth surface. Measure the front clearance (to
furnishings, etc.) from the fireplace face. (Fig. 4)
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VC Montpelier inserts have long caused problems with combustible trims due to not being able to reduce clearances via a mantle shield. The two columns represent flush mounted (not using the 3" projection kit to reduce depth into the fireplace) and the second column is when using the 3" projection kit. If your clearances don't meet spec, the only choice is to remove/modify the trim and/or mantle. Too bad, the Montpelier is actually a nice heater and most consider a very attractive insert. Looking at the manual, I don't remember the firebox being 2.6cuft. I do remember the fan being noisy espec after folks let ash fall down into it due to the very shallow ashlip, ha. Keep warm all.
Problem here is there is also sheetrock under the trim that has a combustible paper surface. Was the sheetrock and mantel trim in place before the insert was installed or was this done after the installation?
This is an excellent point. However, they are making the claim that neither top trim measurement applies to me because I do not have a mantle nor do I have 1.5+" top trim.
I don't think the line you quoted from the body text makes it unambiguously clear that their claim is false.
I do notice that they reformatted the figure since last year... but they didn't resolve the ambiguity.
The sheetrock and trim were already there.
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But what are you saying I should do with this info? Walk in and argue with the the lying installers? I'm sure they'd just say the spec clearly means "Measure the top trim and/or mantel clearances from the finished hearth surface if applicable. It doesn't apply in your case."
Send a letter to Vermont Castings asking for clarification that *any* top trim has a minimum clearance of 47.5 inches?
Ask a simpler question of VC - What is the minimum allowable distance to combustibles above a flush install of a Montpelier insert?
edyit
Minister of Fire
Like begreen said ask what the minimum distance needed for clearance to combustibles is. Then it won't matter if it's 1.5" or more or a mantel, or sheetrock paper, combustible is any material that will burn and should be a clear cut answer.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
The first thing I would do is take a picture of your setup with a 1 star review as a google maps review. People look at those.
I did a positive review and picture, of a place that did gutters on my house in little old Syracuse NY. It got 2400 views in 2 years.
I did a positive review and picture, of a place that did gutters on my house in little old Syracuse NY. It got 2400 views in 2 years.
I would bash them online anywhere you can.....google, angies list, yelp, certainly with the BBB, as long as you make enough noise that other potential customers will see they may fix your issue to avoid the negative reviews.
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
Either way you have a problem here, it needs to get fixed, no amount of back and forth is going to solve the issue at hand, let me ask this, whats behind the sheet rock and mantle trim? Prob brick, if so, time to carefully take the mantle side posts, trim and sheet rock out, then build new side posts to eliminate the hazard ie: the trim and sheet rick.
At a previous house, we converted a gas fireplace to woodburning (the firebox was dual-fuel rated). When we did so, the builder's wood trim got waaaay too hot so I installed one of these - it worked great:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0076M00R8/?tag=hearthamazon-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0076M00R8/?tag=hearthamazon-20
I feel your pain and frustration. I read these stupid instructions a dozen times. I went through a lot of measuring and learning before I bought my VC insert. More work than I feel I should have for something that is supposed to be "professionally" installed, but I learned from this site that installers just want to do the the work. I read horror stories of folks who got stuck with an insert that did not fit. And people who got talked into work that was sub par. I finally found an installer (after having 3 come out) who wanted to make sure I was happy before I made the purchase. He actually made a card board model of the stove to make sure it would fit and drove to my house to test the fit. Wow!
I read the installation instructions to say that whether you have trim (protruding up to 1.5") or a mantel (anything protruding over 1.5") it needs to be at least 47.5" from the bottom base of the stove/hearthpad. The only exception is if you do the 3" insert extension (which, from your picture, you do not have). If you have the extension on the unit then you can have trim (up to 1.5") and mantel a little closer.
I think you have a valid complaint to take the installer to court over the dangerous install. If the installer wants to take VC to court over the poor instructions, that is not your problem. Your case will be simple, the installer installed the unit too close to combustable material as evidence by the 200C reading you get when running the unit. PERIOD. You and the installer can both argue the nuisances about the installation but since you have the 200C, unsafe temp reading, you win. The installer is basically saying they could install combustibles (under 1.5") right onto the stove, which is clearly BS. I think the only thing you need to prove is 200C is a dangerous temp to have the combustable material at.
As a side note, I went with the same VC Montpelier, and I love it. The brick immediately above the insert gets HOT which makes sense and every other insert that I looked at had a similar requirement. Take a look at a BK inserts or the Jotul inserts (two that I was between). I don't think any other insert is going to work safely.
I read the installation instructions to say that whether you have trim (protruding up to 1.5") or a mantel (anything protruding over 1.5") it needs to be at least 47.5" from the bottom base of the stove/hearthpad. The only exception is if you do the 3" insert extension (which, from your picture, you do not have). If you have the extension on the unit then you can have trim (up to 1.5") and mantel a little closer.
I think you have a valid complaint to take the installer to court over the dangerous install. If the installer wants to take VC to court over the poor instructions, that is not your problem. Your case will be simple, the installer installed the unit too close to combustable material as evidence by the 200C reading you get when running the unit. PERIOD. You and the installer can both argue the nuisances about the installation but since you have the 200C, unsafe temp reading, you win. The installer is basically saying they could install combustibles (under 1.5") right onto the stove, which is clearly BS. I think the only thing you need to prove is 200C is a dangerous temp to have the combustable material at.
As a side note, I went with the same VC Montpelier, and I love it. The brick immediately above the insert gets HOT which makes sense and every other insert that I looked at had a similar requirement. Take a look at a BK inserts or the Jotul inserts (two that I was between). I don't think any other insert is going to work safely.
