Point me in the right direction, please

[Samiz]

Hello everyone. I'm trying to pick out a stove to install in our townhouse, and I need some help figuring things out.

First question: how big?
Our house is a 1600 square foot townhouse. We have two other heated units on either side of ours, our biggest walls aren't exposed to the cold. The rest of the house is well insulated. We're in Raleigh NC, where our winters are pretty mild. A "cold" winter day has lows of about 30F, highs about 45F.

The store salesman we talked to seemed to rely exclusively on the "heats up to X square feet" specs in the glossy manuals. I don't think that's wise, as I suspect those square footages assume homes completely different from ours (standalone structure, average insulation, cold climates, etc).


Second question: can we reasonably expect the stove to heat the entire house?
The stove would go in the main room of our lower level (open living room, dining room, kitchen - about 1000sf). We're worried that anything powerful enough to heat the upstairs bedrooms will leave the downstairs too hot, and anything comfortable in the downstairs will have the beds and baths upstairs too cold.

I'd like the stove to be our primary heat source. We have central heat, and our utilities are pretty cheap, so we don't strictly need the stove to be the main heat source. But I have access to free wood, and I just plain like having a fire going.


I appreciate any help y'all can provide. Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Greetings. It sounds like a 2 cu ft stove would fit the bill. With a town house I have to ask, how will the stove be vented? Where will the wood be stored and how much? Is this mostly a nights and weekends heater or 24/7?

The other thing that would be helpful is some feedback on what you have looked at already and what appeals to you or doesn't. That will help narrow down choices a lot.

 

[webbie]

I think a stove could be your primary heat source - it is always better to think in terms of 65-85% of your heat load. It might be wise in your case to actually undersize your stove a bit - given the climate and the home construction. Another option would be to buy a smaller catalytic model (Blaze King, Woodstock, etc.) - cats can burn slower and longer.

In a general sense, I would suggest a stove with a firebox size of 1.5 to 2.2 cubic feet.

Stoves also differ in personality. Some stoves have a reputation for burning very hot...even if they are small. Others are more even. Many folks here have commented well on the Pacific Energy models as stoves for milder weather (west coast, as an example).

The sq. ft ratings given for stoves don't mean much....use firebox size when possible.

As with any purchase like this, a stove is a compromise......maybe it won't be able to heat 100% when the temp goes to 20 degrees, but at least you won't get as roasted when it hits 45 or 50. If you end up needing a small oil filled electric heater in a far bedroom on occasion, so be it. Space heat is often more efficient than central heat anyway.

 

[flyingpig]

I installed our first stove/fireplace insert last Jan and we live not to far from you (Cary). I've got a Lopi Declaration which is a non-CAT stove. If I have to pick again, for our mild winter, I may pick a CAT stove instead. The Lopi sometime kicks us out of the living room because of the heat!!

I visited couple of stores (Raleigh/Carrboro) and we end up with John at the Fireplace & Patio (http://www.raleighfireplace.com/). He did a decent job and didn't try to have you pay more $$ like other place I've found.

Just my 2 cts.

Cheers......Som

 

[fossil]

Inside townhouse unit...first thing you want to do (as BeGreen alluded to above) is check with the HOA about installing a stove. My recollection from living in a townhouse in San Diego for 9 years (a long time ago) is that everything from the wallpaper in belonged to me, and everything from the wallpaper out belonged to them. Installing a woodstove is most certainly going to penetrate the wallpaper. Other than that, I'm in the small stove camp here. Is the upstairs lofted/open to downstairs at all, or is there just a closed stairway? Makes a big difference in terms of warmth migrating upstairs. Rick

 

[wendell]

I would suggest a stove with a firebox size of 1.5 to 2.2 cubic feet.

That's why you gotta love Craig. It is not 1.4 to 2.3. 1.5 to 2.2 is your window.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

You current heater, how many btu does it produce?

I'm thinking a small stove will do it. Especially since the heat will not be moving out the sides of the structure due to wind and such.

Matt

 

[cmonSTART]

Ya, something small is probably best in your situation. Englander 13, Napoleon 11XX or 14XX. A BK Princess is probably the biggest you want, though they do idle along well. A smaller soapstone unit might be good to look at too.

 

[Samiz]

Thanks, everyone.

The HOA is ok with stoves. The stove is to replace an existing wood fireplace as part of a larger remodel, and I can build it up as needed. I think I'd want to vent the stove out the back, straight into the wall where the old chimney chase ran. I have to replace the whole flue pipe anyway. It had an unfortunate encounter with a sawzall during a bathroom remodel back in the spring. Oops.

Of the stoves I've seen so far, I liked the look of cast iron, didn't like the sheet steel models. I was ambivalent about the one soapstone model they had, but I think that had more to do with the odd teal color of the paint than the stove itself. Of the cast irons, I liked the cleaner look of the Moreso stoves over the ornate Jotuls. This is all based on looks, as I haven't the foggiest which ones would function best for me.

No loft or other major openings to the upstairs. The stairwell is small and closed, kinda far from the main area downstairs, and it leads into a hallway before reaching the bedrooms. The heat would have to travel a long, winding path to get upstairs via that route.

I guess I figured that without any insulation in the ceiling above the lower level, that heat could simply radiate up through the ceiling into the upper level. Am I off base here?

I've no idea the capacity of the existing heat pump. Tomorrow when it's daylight I'll go check.

Hey flyingpig, thanks for the lead on the fireplace store in Raleigh. I'll head over there this weekend.

 

[begreen]

For starters, take a look at the PE Alderlea T5, Hampton H300, Hearthstone Shelburne, Jotul F400 Castine and the Quadrafire Cumberland Gap.

 

[branchburner]

Look at the Woodstock Keystone. For your set up, I think a catalytic stove is the way to go.

 

[firefighterjake]

Typically when folks ask about sizing I recommend figuring out the size of the home . . . and then going a size larger . . . but not in this case given your climate and fact that your neighbors are in effect helping you heat two sides of your home. In this case I would figure on the size of the home . . . or even go down a size . . . this should in theory provide plenty of heat for your main living area (where you want most of the heat) and the heat should rise naturally to the upstairs bedrooms via the hallway (some may penetrate through the ceiling . . . but most of the heat will be in the natural convection as heated air rises).

The bedrooms upstairs may be cooler if they are away from the stove . . . personally I like the bedrooms to be a bit cooler . . . in my house the upstairs bedrooms are actually pretty comfortable . . . not quite as warm as downstairs in the living room with the stove . . . but warm enough. If you find that you're not getting these rooms warm enough to be comfortable you might try using a fan blowing towards the stove to establish an artificial air current to move the heated air out of the room with the stove to the upstairs rooms.

The Morso is a good looking stove . . . normally I might suggest a cat stove for your needs . . . but if you find the Jotuls ornate I think you'll find the Woodstock soapstone stoves to be wicked fancy . . . and the BlazeKings would be over-kill . . . plus they're just downright ugly . . . good heaters according to users . . . but most folks seem to think they look pretty darn ugly.

 

[flyingpig]

If you like a clean look of Morso, PE Fusion may be another local choice. It's a non-CAT stove but since it's PE I'd expect it to be rather gentle heat than a fire thrower.

For any stove you pick, you may want to start getting some wood now. I see you mention you have access to free woods. If you need to buy, I start seeing the price on CL going up a bit already. We had a hard time to get the fire going last year cause we couldn't find a good wood supply in mid-winter!!

Cheers.....Som

 

[ddddddden]

Jake, I know what you mean about the Woodstock Fireview looking "wicked fancy," but the Keystone is much more simple looking, IMO. The castings are less ornate, and from the front, it looks like an average iron stove with a stone panel below the glass. (I want Todd to take some more shots of his Keystone to show the stone in the sides.) I don't find soapstone itself to look fancy, maybe luxurious. To me, the look of the Keystone suggests "understated lux" more than "wicked fancy."

 

[Samiz]

I've been checking out the Morso offerings on their website. It seems most of their stoves have firebox volumes of 1.0 or 1.1 cubic feet. Is this too small?

Any opinions on the uber-modern, tall, cylindrical stoves? Do they work as well as the conventional stoves?

I think I could get used to the soapstone look. I'd want to see some more of them in person, though.

 

[ddddddden]

Woodstock sells factory direct, so you're not going to see a Woodstock in person unless you go to NH or find a local owner, which the factory may be able to help with. I've seen pics of the space-age Jotul cylinders. . .haven't read a word about their performance, but I would think that a cylindrical combustion chamber might burn better than a cubic chamber. Yes, 1.0 cu ft is too small, especially when you consider that the useable space rarely equals the mfr's spec for firebox volume. . .look for a thread on measuring fireboxes started about a month ago by Todd. You're asking good questions. Read up on the great catalytic vs. non-cat stove debate. Which type of burn you want is a primary question, IMO.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I've been checking out the Morso offerings on their website. It seems most of their stoves have firebox volumes of 1.0 or 1.1 cubic feet. Is this too small?

Normally, yes. However, since your arrangement is relatively unusual it wouldn't surprise me if it worked. The drawback would be less firebox capacity so overnight burns probably won't happen often unless you go to sleep late and get up early. A benefit would be the ability to really have a great looking fire dancing around inside the firebox and not be heated out of the place.

Any opinions on the uber-modern, tall, cylindrical stoves? Do they work as well as the conventional stoves?

I'm sure they work as well. It's a looks thing. If you like the look, go for it. I prefer a more traditional look.


I think I could get used to the soapstone look. I'd want to see some more of them in person, though.

 

[Todd]

(I want Todd to take some more shots of his Keystone to show the stone in the sides.) I don't find soapstone itself to look fancy, maybe luxurious. To me, the look of the Keystone suggests "understated lux" more than "wicked fancy."

Ask and you shall receive.

 

[ddddddden]

Wicked sweet!

 

[firefighterjake]

Jake, I know what you mean about the Woodstock Fireview looking "wicked fancy," but the Keystone is much more simple looking, IMO. The castings are less ornate, and from the front, it looks like an average iron stove with a stone panel below the glass. (I want Todd to take some more shots of his Keystone to show the stone in the sides.) I don't find soapstone itself to look fancy, maybe luxurious. To me, the look of the Keystone suggests "understated lux" more than "wicked fancy."

Good point . . . I often forget about the smaller Keystone which may fit in well in this case . . . and yeah . . . I like the styling of the Keystone as it seems simpler in its design . . . just wish it heated as much as the Fireview . . . then it would have the look I like and the size I would need for my house . . . and then I would be sorely tempted.

 

[firefighterjake]

(I want Todd to take some more shots of his Keystone to show the stone in the sides.) I don't find soapstone itself to look fancy, maybe luxurious. To me, the look of the Keystone suggests "understated lux" more than "wicked fancy."

Ask and you shall receive.

Yeah, I definitely like this design better than the Fireview . . . looks nice Todd.

 

[Todd]

Jake, I know what you mean about the Woodstock Fireview looking "wicked fancy," but the Keystone is much more simple looking, IMO. The castings are less ornate, and from the front, it looks like an average iron stove with a stone panel below the glass. (I want Todd to take some more shots of his Keystone to show the stone in the sides.) I don't find soapstone itself to look fancy, maybe luxurious. To me, the look of the Keystone suggests "understated lux" more than "wicked fancy."

Good point . . . I often forget about the smaller Keystone which may fit in well in this case . . . and yeah . . . I like the styling of the Keystone as it seems simpler in its design . . . just wish it heated as much as the Fireview . . . then it would have the look I like and the size I would need for my house . . . and then I would be sorely tempted.

I don't think there is much difference between the two in how much they can heat. There is only a 10,000 BTU difference and it's not like you burn them at max BTU. Woodstock's square footage heating numbers are pretty conservative compared to other manufactures similar sized stoves. From what I've read and heard either stove is pretty good for up to 2000sq ft if you have good insulation and an open floor plan, once over that you start to push the limits. Anyways, I'm going to find out the differences of the two stoves this year and will let everyone know.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I still prefer the looks of the Fireview. I hope the new stove is as good looking as the Fireview.

 

[firefighterjake]

Jake, I know what you mean about the Woodstock Fireview looking "wicked fancy," but the Keystone is much more simple looking, IMO. The castings are less ornate, and from the front, it looks like an average iron stove with a stone panel below the glass. (I want Todd to take some more shots of his Keystone to show the stone in the sides.) I don't find soapstone itself to look fancy, maybe luxurious. To me, the look of the Keystone suggests "understated lux" more than "wicked fancy."

Good point . . . I often forget about the smaller Keystone which may fit in well in this case . . . and yeah . . . I like the styling of the Keystone as it seems simpler in its design . . . just wish it heated as much as the Fireview . . . then it would have the look I like and the size I would need for my house . . . and then I would be sorely tempted.

I don't think there is much difference between the two in how much they can heat. There is only a 10,000 BTU difference and it's not like you burn them at max BTU. Woodstock's square footage heating numbers are pretty conservative compared to other manufactures similar sized stoves. From what I've read and heard either stove is pretty good for up to 2000sq ft if you have good insulation and an open floor plan, once over that you start to push the limits. Anyways, I'm going to find out the differences of the two stoves this year and will let everyone know.

I would really be interested in finding out what you find out this winter Todd . . . definitely let us know what you discover.

 

[firefighterjake]

I still prefer the looks of the Fireview. I hope the new stove is as good looking as the Fireview.

Yeah, but this is coming from a guy who insists the best way to split wood is vertically.

On a serious note . . . I think the look of the Fireview fits in well with some homes -- especially Victorian style homes -- it's just a bit too ornate for my simple country cape.