Poor performing stove

[kwikrp]

My older stove late 70's early 80's. It takes a while to get a good fire if at all it does not blaze like I have seen some videos or pictures of others. Was told it was my wood. Went out and bought a box of "Envirologs" states they burn 3X Hotter and longer than cord wood each log should burn about 4 hours. But the flames keep going out with both the cord wood as well as these enviro logs. Chimney is 30+ feet above stove installed with 2-18 inch single wall 8 inch pipe with an elbow. Chimney was cleaned this summer. Chimney has no obstructions, resealed cleanout door. Seals on doors have been tested using dollar bill test they are tight. Cant get stove above 400 griddle temp (using ir meter). Flames keep dieing out. I have check air supply passages many times and have cleaned them out many times also. Draft seems strong using a cigar it'll pull smoke in about 6-8 inches from stove. What else ????

 

[begreen]

Have you tried opening a close by window a little bit? How much wood stove burning experience do you have? lots, a little, none?

 

[Jimbob]

My older stove late 70's early 80's. It takes a while to get a good fire if at all it does not blaze like I have seen some videos or pictures of others.

You probably won't see the same type of flames as the newer stoves with secondary air passages. Most of the videos and pics are of newer EPA stoves with advanced combustion technology.

Do you have a pic of the stove?

 

[kenny chaos]

You need to start with a small fire and build on it. Maybe you're trying to get there too fast. I always did and it pissed me off. I had to change my attitude when it came to the old woodstove. It was like a lady that needed caressing before she got HOT! Work with it or against it.

 

[kwikrp]

it is an older VC defiant, and I just resealed the entire stove this year. Also tested for leaks seems tight. I have a little experience, did more burning with a Russo wood/coal stove. The flames are usually smaller and bluer towards the fuel, but have not got a roaring fire as I have before in the old Russo.

 

[branchburner]

Is this the model with the temp controlled air intake in the back of the stove? If so, is it set so the flap shuts all the way when the stove heats up? That'll slow a fire down.
Also wondering how you set the damper at different burn stages/temps.

 

[cmonSTART]

Has the stove ever worked well for you? Or is this a new install or sudden development in it's operation? Growing up our old Defiant threw off a lot of heat when it was cranked up.

 

[kwikrp]

I have never before used the stove as a heating source. I have used it before mostly like a fireplace with the doors open. After some research on this site and through other sources I felt if properly running the stove would help reduce my oil heat consumption. I have learned much about this stove. The manual says because this stove can go ito horizontal burn you dont need a flue damper, there is one installed but it is always opened fully, as for the air adjustment it is adjusted to close all the way when the lever is to the right, but I have opened it full to try and get the fire going strong. Also if the door gasket were bad would it not have the opposite effect and cause overheating or runaway. I have the opposite very sluggish. As I said I thought it was a fuel problem, but after trying these envirologs I expected much better results.

 

[branchburner]

The flue damper is set open, but how are you using the stove damper? Leaving that open as well, or closing it at any certain time/temp?

 

[pistonslap]

Try watching your fire with the door open. As long as you are building your fire correctly (starting small and gradually adding bigger pieces) you should get a good burn. After you get it going good with the door open, (not just a good flame but actually starting to build a decent bed of coals) close the door and if the fire goes out or smolders then you have some kind of blockage in an air intake or incorrectly working damper. I have a 70's woodburning furnace and when I first starting uising it, I would always try to step up in wood size too quickly and the fire would smolder without much heat. These older stoves take a lot more care starting up but once you get that bed of coals going they do the job quite well.

 

[webbie]

That stove is made to run at pretty high output with a big bed of coals and very well seasoned wood. I don't imagine it working well with enviro or purchased logs - in fact, it is the rare case where an old Defiant is going to satisfy in the downdraft mode. We've had some long time forum members that ran them full time in updraft since they never worked any other way.

Yes, if you have a big heating load, good wood and patience you might eventually get it to work - but if you want to be happier burning wood, get something more up to date...someone will pay you a pretty penny for that thing!

 

[fraxinus]

A common reason for your problem with an older Defiant is air passageways clogged with fine ash. With the stove pipe removed and the stove damper out of the way, look straight down. You'll see a removable cast iron piece close to the top. You can take this piece out - a difficult job, both removing and putting back - or use a small diameter hose duct taped to a vacuum equipped with a fine ash filter. There's enough room on the left side to use this to remove ash that has accumulated between the fireback and the rear stove casting. Also vacuum out the air holes in the fireback from the front. This usually makes a huge difference and should be done annually.

 

[kwikrp]

I always run the flue damper fully open. I usually start in fireplace mode, and even then it will start to slow down and dimenish. With a lot of attention I can get it going and then try to go into vertical mode. When I close the doors the draft increases the flames and seems to get going good. Then after a few minutes it dies down and the flame goes out. I have this same experience with both the primary and secondarys open at the same time and/ or just the primary open. I have cleaned out the back and did vac all the air supplies even took the seconadary air passages off to clean. I have taken a flashlight and have shined it through the air passages and able to see light.

 

[wellbuilt home]

Ive used the old defiant for a few years and it worked real good. I rebuilt the stove and gave it to a friend and its still working great . The damper broke on me in the middle of the winter and i had to but a new stove in the next day . I would think you are blocked somewhere .I would get ash on my chimny top and it would cut down on my burn. In the winter i would shoot it with a bb gun to clean it off.

 

[begreen]

kwikrp, have you checked the air intake control? The air intake is controlled by a small lever on the top left back of the stove (this is a fine short lever, about 3/16" in diameter and about maybe 2-3" tall). This lever is tied to a thermostatic coil. There should be a chain going from this thermostatic coil straight down to a metal flapper damper. This damper is about 2"x4" and is located at the bottom back left side. If that chain is missing, the air supply will be cut off. Moving the upper air control lever to the left to opens up the air. Once the stove is hot and horiz. burn is going well you can move it to a more center position. Set the lever to the temp you desire. The stove will self-regulate the air according to the stove temp, all by itself from that point on.

 

[branchburner]

Maybe try some more small/medium sized wood to build up more coals and hotter flame before you load up with bigger splits or envirologs. If the stove worked with the front doors open I can't see why it wouldn't work now unless there was an air supply or draft problem. Did you try cracking the side door a wee bit when the fire seems to be slowing? We used to do that with the old Defiant on occasion, if the wood was damp or too big for the kindling and/or coal bed, and it would give it enough of a jumpstart to get it cranking again. Just keep a close eye on the temps.
Is the chimney interior or exterior, and what is the flue size?

 

[fraxinus]

Starting in the fireplace mode with both front doors open is the most difficult way to establish the fire. Try it with the side loading door open. BeGreen's suggestion about the thermostat coil is a good one. Also make sure the cast iron cover just below the left side of the side loading door is fully off the air intake opening. If after all these checks, and cleanings, the fire still goes out, I'd say blockage in the chimney or stove pipe is the only remaining explanation.

 

[kwikrp]

I have read that it is recommended to put about 1- 2 inches of ash or sand on the bottom of stove to protect from overheating the base plate and warping or cracking it. My stove has 1/2 thickness firebricks on the bottom they are about 1 1/2 inch thick. I have had the stove it updraft mode all last night it was giving off some good heat, got the griddle temp up to 500 and with a good coal bed. But everytime I opened the secondary air and tried to put it in downdraft or horizontal mode the temp would begin to slowly drop and whenever I opened the doors the flames were out. I tried this several times with the same results. The thermostatic control is in place and seems to be working as described. Are there any special requirements that maybe are not being met for horizontal burn ?

 

[branchburner]

I wonder if the firebrick is impeding the airflow in any way.
Bear in mind that you may not see good flaming when the fire is in slow burn mode. But it should not go out.

 

[fraxinus]

Defiant stoves of the vintage you have did not employ firebrick. An inch or so of sand or ash in the bottom was needed to protect the bottom casting. Could the firebrick be the source of your problem? If the brick is blocking the flow of air from the holes in the lower part of the fireback, I think it could. The firebrick is not creating an air tight seal, but it definitely could be impeding air flow enough to cause problems - even wood placed too close to the holes tends to make fires difficult to start.