Pre-Fab upgrade (replacement) Any Options?

[Aleforge]

I most likely already know the answer to this. But thought I would ask for some insight anyways.

I have a "builders" pre-fab fireplace, its about 16 years old. I purchased the house 2 years ago and luckily it was never really used. I had it inspected and cleaned and the sweep only found some cobwebs inside. As with most likely everyone here (considering its a fireplace forum lol) I love fireplaces. Its the number one priority when I buy a home. Unfortunately (as prob with most communities) all the newer homes have pre-fabs instead of masonry. My first though was to have a new masonry "real" fireplace installed. My wife and I are not sure how long we will live in our house, but if we do decide to stay until my youngest grad's from HS it will be another 10 years.

10 years for me means it would be worth the new fireplace, however at the moment I can not spend that much. Correct me if I am wrong but a new masonry fireplace can easily hit 15-20k range (or more).

So I started wondering if I could install a new pre-fab style fireplace. Even if it means an upgraded chimney. I can't imagine to cost getting up to the masonry range. The reason I ask is because several of my friends (and my parents) have builder pre-fabs that are not only larger but actually put out heat. My parents is double the size and lacks a blower. But their living area can heat up so much the windows need cracked once it gets going.

I have to climb inside mine to feel heat. I know its cooling my house more than anything, but hell if I don't love the crackling of wood and the ambiance it creates. However, I want the ability to build a larger fire, and actually get some warmth.

(sorry this is getting so long)

So I am sure everyone is going to say NO! Forget your dreams! But I know from experience pre-fabs can suck less than mine. And my unit doesn't work with any blowers, even though its suppose to according to the tag & manual (I even tried to custom install one where the factory one goes). I don't even know how well they work anyhow.

Any thoughts on this? I know they have to have better units out there, but not sure what needs to happen in order to get one?

I appreciate the feedback!

 

[kennyp2339]

Ahh, your looking for a zero clearance epa rated fireplace. The good but they do cost extra $$

 

[begreen]

A new, EPA zero-clearance fireplace will run $2500 to $5000 and most likely it will need a new chimney system too which could add another couple thousand to the cost. Another option if the opening height is tall enough would be to drop a stainless steel liner down the chimney and connect it to a rear-vented freestanding wood stove placed on the hearth. That could drop the price as low as $3000 total depending on stove choice, DIY installation, chimney height etc.. The hearth also may need extending to meet the stove specs. Can you post a picture of the current installation and provide the current fireplace opening height?

 

[Aleforge]

Ahh, your looking for a zero clearance epa rated fireplace. The good but they do cost extra $$

I am not sure, I wasn't really aware of that type. I did go out just now and look it up but a little confused. Can they directly replace the one I have now using the existing flue / chimney?

From reading it seems they improve on the pre-fab's (if that's the correct term) in every aspect. Which sounds like the simplest way for me to upgrade? Thanks for the help, oh and one last thing, using the existing chimney could I have the wall opened up some to accommodate a larger unit?

 

[begreen]

I am not sure, I wasn't really aware of that type. I did go out just now and look it up but a little confused. Can they directly replace the one I have now using the existing flue / chimney?

From reading it seems they improve on the pre-fab's (if that's the correct term) in every aspect. Which sounds like the simplest way for me to upgrade? Thanks for the help, oh and one last thing, using the existing chimney could I have the wall opened up some to accommodate a larger unit?

You will probably not be able to use the old chimney. Modern EPA ZC fireplaces usually have higher temp chimney requirements. As far as construction options, that depends on how the original was set and chased on the backside. If you can't go larger, you still may be able to install a good heater/fireplace that heats the place well.

 

[Aleforge]

A new, EPA zero-clearance fireplace will run $2500 to $5000 and most likely it will need a new chimney system too which could add another couple thousand to the cost. Another option if the opening height is tall enough would be to drop a stainless steel liner down the chimney and connect it to a rear-vented freestanding wood stove placed on the hearth. That could drop the price as low as $3000 total depending on stove choice, DIY installation, chimney height etc.. Can you post a picture of the current installation and provide the current fireplace opening height?

I should of read through your response better before replying to kenny (sorry kenny). So you can not use (normally) your existing flue / chimney?

So I could use a wood stove venting through the current chimney? The hearth now is really small, but I assume I could replace it. I do not think its high enough to have a free standing stove inside, but would I be able to open the area up larger to fit it?

I also had no idea the zero clearence FP's cost 2-5k, a new chimney would push it over budget. Although if somehow I could still use it, I would be happy to spend 5k to have something better. I appreciate the help!

 

[Aleforge]

You will probably not be able to use the old chimney. Modern EPA ZC fireplaces usually have higher temp chimney requirements. As far as construction options, that depends on how the original was set and chased on the backside. If you can't go larger, you still may be able to install a good heater/fireplace that heats the place well.

I should of not responded so quickly!

I see what you mean, I suppose original chimneys can not be retro fitted to insulate better. Is it because of clearance? As mentioned ya I don't think it would be affordable enough for me to get a new chimney.

Heater / Fireplace? Is that in relation to each other or two different things? I would be willing to open up the hole to have something larger put in, but I am not sure if that's possible to line up with the flue. I am guessing though a heater fireplace is similar to a pre-fab but more efficient?

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Open prefab fireplaces are not great heaters. The heat is mostly radiant and a lot of heat gets sucked up the chimney. A modern ZC EPA fireplace puts out a lot more heat into the room convectively. It can be considered a heater just like a wood stove.

 

[iron]

similar thread currently underway:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...or-when-upgrading-a-wood-zc-fireplace.154890/

 

[Aleforge]

Thanks everyone for helping out, looks like I have a few options! I looked up some free standing stoves (hanging out in the old fire place opening) and I like the way some of them look. The only thing I am worried about is top clearance, but then I am thinking the vents and surround would leave the hole larger in the end. So this would most likely be the most affordable option? I also am guessing they would put out a ton of heat. One other thing, with a wood stove would I be able to use my current chimney?

I am going to go over and read the thread Iron. Thanks for giving me a heads up.

 

[Aleforge]

Oh as asked, here is a picture of my crappy fireplace now. I am photo shopping some different wood stoves to convince my wife it would look neat. And ya that's my wife's gandalf painting she had commissioned. lol

 

[begreen]

What is the opening height for the current fireplace? A freestanding stove will need a stainless steel liner in the chimney that matches the stove flue outlet size.

 

[Aleforge]

I am not sure, I will have to measure it when I get home. I assume they make stoves of all sizes that could work? In order to install a liner would they need to open up the entire chimney, or can it slide down into place?

 

[begreen]

Only a limited number of stoves have a rear-vent option and many of the larger ones are too high to clear the average ZC fireplace opening. Typically the liner is dropped down the existing chimney, no need to open it up.

 

[bholler]

no need to open it up.

They should pull the chase cover though to confirm proper clearances from the existing chimney. We are now doing that on every zc fireplace we work on we have seen to many with way to little clearance. But that is usually very simple and if it is ok yeah it is simple to drop a liner.

 

[begreen]

Doesn't an insulated liner make the chimney clearances a moot point, especially with an 1" air cooled gap around the interior part of the chimney?

 

[bholler]

Doesn't an insulated liner make the chimney clearances a moot point, especially with an 1" air cooled gap around the interior part of the chimney?

No it does not at all

 

[begreen]

The code here appears to be confusing. An insulated liner is supposed to make a brick chimney that is right up against combustibles, safe, yet an insulated liner in a multi-wall chimney pipe, is not safe with an insulated liner even if the outer wall of the chimney pipe if the chimney clearances are say 1" in some places instead of 2"?

 

[bholler]

The code here appears to be confusing. An insulated liner is supposed to make a brick chimney that is right up against combustibles, safe, yet an insulated liner in a multi-wall chimney pipe, is not safe with an insulated liner even if the outer wall of the chimney pipe if the chimney clearances are say 1" in some places instead of 2"?

Yes that is because there is no listing to cover putting a liner inside a prefab chimney. Because of this and the fact that it has not been tested we need to make sure the existing chimney is installed right to begin with. If they come up with a listing and test for it fine but at this point the industry consensus is that the chimney should meet original installation requirements.

 

[begreen]

Got it, so not really a safety issue, but more of a meeting of minds on this type of installation. Do you typically cut just a small, repairable inspection hole or two?

 

[bholler]

Got it, so not really a safety issue, but more of a meeting of minds on this type of installation. Do you typically cut just a small, repairable inspection hole or two?

I would be concerned about safety of an install if the clearances where not met. We simply dont have the info to know if it would be a problem or not.

As far as inspection that varies greatly depending on the situation. Most times you can pull the chase cover and see almost everything. Other times we need to pop loose a peice of siding and cut a hole under it.