QUADRAFIRE 5700 metal problems???

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Hog Sniper

Member
Aug 30, 2010
9
York, PA
New here to the forum, and have a quick question. I purchased a new Quadrafire 5700 about 3-4 years ago for the new house that we built. I love the stove and its saved me a bunch of money on my propane bills. The problem is last year I replaced the front 2 baffles. While in the stove I noticed that some of the fire bricks were getting in pretty bad shape. Thats when I discovered that the metal tabs that hold the bricks upright on the left side were GONE. The right side appear to be fine. So, I called Quadrafire today, and the rep told me my stove was overfired and that would not be covered under warranty!!!They advised I call my local dealer and have them look at the stove. I bought this stove for the large capacity and ability to burn lots of wood all the time. I dont think I burn this stove any harder than other stoves I've used in the past. Heres the routine:
During the week:
Fire the stove up at night and let it burn until bedtime. Load it up at bedtime and then damper down. In the morning, open the dampers and load it again for several hours then damper down again for the day while at work.
Weekends:
It burns pretty much all day and is damped down at night.

As a side note my chimney is cleaned each year and the Chimney sweep says everything looks good with the burn, the ashes are right, and it looks good??

I grew up using an Alaska Double door stove and never had a problem like this..That baby was burned HOT all the time. Has anyone else had this problem?
 

branchburner

Minister of Fire
Sep 27, 2008
2,758
southern NH
I don't know the specifics of your stove, but it sounds like you may have given the fire too much air (so it burned too hot for too long). When you say "let it burn a few hours" that makes me think it was wide open, and a few hours is too long.

Questions: did you read and follow the specific operating procedures in the manual, and did you monitor stovetop and/or flue temps with a thermometer? When you say "damper" do you mean the air-supply controls on the stove, or an in-line damper in your stove pipe?
 

firefighterjake

Minister of Fire
Jul 22, 2008
19,593
Unity/Bangor, Maine
Random thoughts . . .

I'm kind of scratching my head wondering how someone could tell if your stove was over-fired from a simple phone call without seeing pictures or having someone look at it in person.

Open damper for several hours . . . I'm thinking you may have worded this sentence poorly so that it sounds as though you open the air control on the stove all the way for several hours before closing it down part-way . . . when in fact you were trying to say you get up, load up the stove, open the air control on the stove until the wood ignites and takes off and then you close down the air control part way to allow it to burn for several hours while you are at work . . . at least that's what I'm hoping you meant since leaving the air control on the stove all the way open for several hours could cause an over-firing situation.

Temps . . . you never mentioned temps. I think this is important to know . . . what are/were the temps on the stove and the stove pipe . . . these tell the true story (or at least give us a hint) as they will let you (and us) know if you were burning too hot . . . otherwise just thinking you were burning at the proper temps is just a guess.
 

webbie

Seasoned Moderator
Nov 17, 2005
12,182
Western Mass.
I've seen twisted and eaten away brick retainers over the years....it's not an uncommon problem. You may not be doing anything wrong - there are almost infinite combinations of wood, chimneys, operators, etc. and for whatever reason these small angles were torched.

It is a bit presumptive of them to claim they are not going to help without having inspected them...or the stove as a whole. In any case, many stove warranties may not provide much help anyway - for instance, some require you to ship your stove back to the dealer or to a factory!

Read the warranty carefully to see who is responsible for what.

If the bricks tend to stay up by themselves or can be cemented in place, than that is just as well. If you end up needing to repair it, you can do it in various low cost ways. Some examples:
1. Have someone with a portable welder come out and tack in a new angle - if you look around for someone to do this "on the side" after work, etc. you might get it done for under $100. The factory may provide some credit to you and the angles also.
2. Possible DIY fixes - a small angle could be made from relatively light gauge stainless steel and riveted into place. This might even outlast the original.
 

vvvv

New Member
Feb 23, 2010
1,449
MAINE
Hog Sniper said:
New here to the forum, and have a quick question. I purchased a new Quadrafire 5700 about 3-4 years ago for the new house that we built. I love the stove and its saved me a bunch of money on my propane bills. The problem is last year I replaced the front 2 baffles. While in the stove I noticed that some of the fire bricks were getting in pretty bad shape. Thats when I discovered that the metal tabs that hold the bricks upright on the left side were GONE. The right side appear to be fine. So, I called Quadrafire today, and the rep told me my stove was overfired and that would not be covered under warranty!!!They advised I call my local dealer and have them look at the stove. I bought this stove for the large capacity and ability to burn lots of wood all the time. I dont think I burn this stove any harder than other stoves I've used in the past. Heres the routine:
During the week:
Fire the stove up at night and let it burn until bedtime. Load it up at bedtime and then damper down. In the morning, open the dampers and load it again for several hours then damper down again for the day while at work.
Weekends:
It burns pretty much all day and is damped down at night.

As a side note my chimney is cleaned each year and the Chimney sweep says everything looks good with the burn, the ashes are right, and it looks good??

I grew up using an Alaska Double door stove and never had a problem like this..That baby was burned HOT all the time. Has anyone else had this problem?
"damper down refers to a fluepipe damper or primary air control? does stove have uncotrolable secondary air intake? what is the chimni & how tall?
 

flueguyPA

New Member
Oct 12, 2010
19
Central PA
Hey, had to reregister because I forgot my old id but anyway....

It appears that Quadrafire has a problem with the 5700 models in that they are developing cracks along the back of the stove in the channel above the bricks. Just yesterday I was in the process of reconditioning a 5700 that I picked up from customer that was moving; I removed the side heat shields (3 screws on the back of each side) and found that BOTH SIDES of the stove were cracked through to the extent that you could actually see light inside the stove! This is probably 1/4 inch plate steel that is cracked around the weld where the channel that holds the air tubes is attached. I also see a couple tabs that hold the brick in are deteriorated also, similar to your situation.

I would strongly suggest checking for cracks in both places on your stove BEFORE burning this season. If yours is cracked like mine then you most certainly will be sucking in cold air and causing the fire to burn hotter than intended.

Quadrafires do not / should not require any additional dampening measures other than the primary and secondary air intakes on the stove.

Oh, and regarding warranty... if you bought the stove you should contact your dealer. Quad is aware of the cracking issue and has directed their dealers to REPLACE THE STOVE with a new one. It seems they intend to screw me though since I'm the second owner even though it hasn't been burned since getting it from the original owner.
 

RonB

Feeling the Heat
Feb 14, 2007
304
Southwest MI
My 5700 is same age as yours and no I do not have the problem you described. It would help if you could post pics of the missing brick tab holders. I run my stove 24/7 in season and my metal tabs are pristine. How long do you keep the start up air control open (manual indicates I believe 15-30 min max)? Do you have a temp gauge on stove top? This is very helpful in running the stove and in diagnosing problems. It is strange that you having missing brick holders only on one side. If you were over firing the stove it seems like both sides would be affected. Keep us posted on what happens so we know the end of the story and look for any possible problems in our own stoves.
 

Hog Sniper

Member
Aug 30, 2010
9
York, PA
flueguyPA...I'd like to thank your for taking the time to post.......Heres why.....Quadrafire denied my warranty this week and said that the stove was overfired. It has been a nightmare trying to deal with them. No communication, and Quadrafire will tell you to speak to the dealer and the dealer says they are waiting to hear from Quadrafire..I have been dealing with people in 3 different states all looking at pictures of my stove making a determination..

Anyway, the damage to the stove was the loss of the mounting tabs, and the rear air exchanger was cracked in the middle. I thought that the overfiring issue was odd since I dont burn this stove very hard, and its spends most of the day smoldering while I'm at work. After reading the post about welding new tabs in it, I went down and gave the stove a good going over. I pulled the right side cover of the stove out to inspect the box. I saw a crack on the side right where the air channel is welded to the box. I stuck my flashlight on the side of the box and sure enough could see the light on the inside of the stove. The rep that my dealer sent out never looked for this and completley missed it.

Looking back now my stove was acting a bit different last winter. No hot coals in the morning, harder to regulate the temps etc. Now I know why. So today I logged in and search around to find your post.....Do you have any documentation on the replacement issue? With such a dangerous situation you would think that Quad would send out notices to the owners of these stoves. Yes, I am the original owner and it gets cleaned every season and no one has noticed this. I would never think that the stove would develop a crack in the middle of a firebox wall....Everyone please check your stoves!!!!
 

flueguyPA

New Member
Oct 12, 2010
19
Central PA
I will check and see if HHT isssued anything in writing to the local dealer. BTW, the dealer here is getting quite irritated with the company and they way they are standing behind their product; or should I say NOT standing behind their product.

As I mentioned before, they did issue a type of "repair" kit for the crack along the rear channel. That is to be installed and then when the crack continues to be an issue the customer comes back in and after much knashing of teeth, HHT (Quad) has replaced the stove. Yours is the first I've heard of that developed the cracks like mine did. I believe 1000% that the original crack in the rear is leading to the overfiring that is cracking the sides of the stove. My response to Quad was "NO S#!& ITS BEEN OVERFIRED, YOUR STEEL SIDES CRACKED AND LET AIR IN BECAUSE THE REAR CHANNEL CRACKED FIRST!!" Why no sir, you must have overfired it to cause the cracks in the first place.

The REAL issue actually seems to be cheap Chinese steel that they're making these things with now. I hadn't realized until the dealer told me but now HHT is having these all made in China now. Big surprise when they fall apart! On the up side of things, he does say that they have made major adjustments in the manufacture of the stoves to try and correct their problems. Apparently they're keeping all the info to themselves though. "Deny and misdirect" seems to be the company policy lately.
 

flueguyPA

New Member
Oct 12, 2010
19
Central PA
I would also like to point out that I have inspected 2 other Quad 5700's this month and neither of them have experienced any cracking or overfiring issues. Their models were only 1 - 3 years old while I believe my model is a 2005. Of course I had to teach one of the customers how to actually fire the stove so now that he's actually burning wood instead of smoking it, things might change.
 

flueguyPA

New Member
Oct 12, 2010
19
Central PA
These are the cracks in the exterior sides behind the heat shield
 

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BrotherBart

Modesterator
Staff member
Overfiring may warp a steel stove. Usually the top plate first. But those kind of cracks in the side of the stove body ain't from overfiring. That is a chit built stove. Probably cracked from the welds where the secondary manifolds and brick retainers are welded into it and weakened the steel.
 

flueguyPA

New Member
Oct 12, 2010
19
Central PA
Yeah, we can all figure that out here but the brain trusts at Home & Hearth Technologies are obviously much smarter than we are and they say it's our fault.
 

Hog Sniper

Member
Aug 30, 2010
9
York, PA
That is EXACTLY how the crack in my stove looks!!! Its funny how you mention the China sttel. The guy that inspected my stove told me the same thing..He also told me that Quad had issues with the cracks in the back as well and they were fixing them some how. He also said they had a quick fix for the older models that were burning off the firebrick tabs but the design has since changed which makes it harder to fix that without welding. The other thing I find interesting is my stove is an 05 model as well. I will be on the phone with them on Wed. morning to see what they have to say now. I now feel like I got scre### when I bought this stove. I did alot of research on it and found great reviews back then. I grew up burning wood in an old Alaska double door stove that just burned great. Never had an issue out of that old gal. Thanks again so much for your help. Heres a few pics..Looks just like yours..
 

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RonB

Feeling the Heat
Feb 14, 2007
304
Southwest MI
Now I understand why there are so many class action law suits these days. My stove burns properly, no issues, but I would like to inspect it as well. I think I can remove the back shield but the side shield is tack welded to the front of the stove and bolted at the rear. What year model is your 5700? I can't understand why they won't stand behind it. Does the white ashen sides indicate overfire? If it did overfire it was likely because of the crack admitting extra air. Thanks for the pics.
 

Jags

Moderate Moderator
Staff member
Aug 2, 2006
18,400
Northern IL
Those cracks are Grade A crap. Don't let up. The tabs - overfire - maybe. The cracks in the panels - no. That is a design issue, not an overtemp issue.
 

flueguyPA

New Member
Oct 12, 2010
19
Central PA
Keep in mind that the tabs that are "melting" are about 3 inches away from those huge cracks you see in the sides. The crack on the rear tube was usually confined to the tube and did not break the outer plate of the stove. Usually being the key word.

Sniper, for all I know both of our stoves came from the same dealer too. I got my stove from a house just south of Carlisle and brought it back to central PA. You both may have gone to the same dealer originally. Since Quad wouldn't help me I had the sides welded (the guy did an excellent job) and if need be I can go back and plate over it later. The stove seems to be burning ok and I make it a point to not allow it to burn over 450 degrees on the stovepipe thermometer which I have about 2' above the collar. Excellent burn time and actually getting more heat with less wood than my old 3100 (which WAS overfired but never cracked - 1993 model).
 

WarmHouse

New Member
Dec 18, 2010
13
Eastern Washington
I have two Quadrafire 5700 Step Top stoves. Recently I noted a crack in the back interior above where the center brick holder is welded. I found this site and thread and I just looked under the the shields-- there are cracks on both sides. No discoloration--just cracks much like what is shown here. My warranty indicates that these issues are covered on a lifetime basis.

I have not looked behind the shields of my other stove yet. Nonetheless, all of this is troubling especially since Quadrafire has known of these problems and no hazard bulletins have been issued.

Two years ago, we bought our other 5700 for use in the shop. Soon after, I noted that the fiberboard was split diagonally. When I contacted Quadrafire they insisted I broke it; when I called the dealer they said they'd sell me a replacement for $100. I feel deceived... and now these crack issues.

I am contacting the dealer.
 

flueguyPA

New Member
Oct 12, 2010
19
Central PA
HogSniper and I will be interested to hear your experience. If he's still following this thread he may share more with us but he's pretty much gotten the shaft from Quadrafire and I think they're refusing to talk to him now. Quadrafire / Home Hearth Technologies are a poor excuse for a stove company and their customer service sucks. They deserve every bad word they get on here.

Sniper, if your out there and are willing, please post the experience you've relayed to me in dealing with these clowns. I don't want to repeat it without your approval first. At the very least we may have another victim to add to the list.
 

Hog Sniper

Member
Aug 30, 2010
9
York, PA
Oh yeah, I'm following this thread....Getting alerts to my phone. Please take photos of your stove and post them here. I will contact you via email. In a nut shell, Quad has refused my warranty claim. I have never heard that directly from Quad. My dealer told me that they got an email from Quad stating that they would send me a letter. It has never arrived. My customer experience with Quad has been like NOTHING I've ever dealt with before. You will NEVER be allowed to speak with them directly. When you call them a call taker listens to your complaint and sends an email to the Reps that review the case. I asked to have a Rep call me to discuss my stove. My phone number was taken and NO ONE ever returned my call. After several times of trying to speak with a rep I started asking for a supervisor. That was refused and the phone was HUNG UP on me. Several days later, I had additional information about my stove that I needed to relay to the rep that had my case. I was told to "email us photos" and the phone was HUNG UP on me again. These have been some of the nastiest people I have ever dealt with. Make sure to keep notes on the dates and times you call, what they tell you and their responses to your request. They say your call may be recorded.

It appears that the internal design has been changed several times with this stove. I just need to figure out how many times. I have a copy of a Field Repair from Quad to repair the rear air channel crack dated 10-26-2007. I think they know they have problems with this design, and by issuing a warranty would open them up for liabilty. I doubt I will see any money for my stove or a replacement but for me its more of a safety issue. There are a bunch of these stoves out there and most people would not be aware of the firebox CRACK until its too late and they have a fire. Please spread the word for everyone with a Quad 5700 to check the sides of their stoves for these cracks!! If you find someone with issues on this stove or customer service please encourage them to post it here so we can keep a record of it.

Thanks so much for posting.
 

WarmHouse

New Member
Dec 18, 2010
13
Eastern Washington
Thanks Hogsniper and Fluguy. I called the dealer today but the repair person had left for the day. They indicated that he would call me back on Monday.

Having to do with my fiberboard experience, I know what you mean about Quadrafire and I too have found them to be dangerously irresponsible, nonchalant, and flip. Might be prudent to run all this by a product liability attorney knowledgable of wood stoves. In any case, I'd like them to stand by the stove that heats our home.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
96,422
South Puget Sound, WA
Those identical cracks on multiple units spell design flaw. Possilby, the burnt off tabs are a symptom of the air leak torching this area. This is not overfiring, nor in control of the user. It appears to be a serious and dangerous problem that needs immediate attention.
 

savageactor7

Minister of Fire
Jan 25, 2008
3,783
CNY
Well that does it...the 5700 is out of consideration for our next stove.

Totally bogus that they don't have 800 line too. Sure it makes sense to go threw the dealer first, but what if the dealer has issues? Under the Quada Fire system there's no check/balance against the dealer.

Hell I'd be better off buying 2 NC30's in the off season and dressing 'em up with gold trim...can't remember the last time I read of a complaint about an Englander.
 

WarmHouse

New Member
Dec 18, 2010
13
Eastern Washington
Hogsniper, Any possibility of posting that Field Repair from Quadrafire (the one to repair the rear air channel crack dated 10-26-2007) here? That's one of the problems on my stove.
 
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