I have a Quadrafire castile pellet insert that smokes a lot before igniting. The chamber fills with snoke then it bursts into flames. It is also taking too long for the blower to kick in. Naturally the house smells smokey afterwards. I thought it had cracks at the back of the heat exchanger tubes but I've been told that they are normal air gaps. The burn pot had been replaced with a newer model pot which is much deeper. Perhaps these have something to do with it? I'm tired of spending money on repairs that don't fix it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Quadrafire Pellet Insert Slow Ignition and Delayed Blower
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The exhaust fan should be on first thing before anything else. Has your pellets gotten damp? Use a mirror and flashlight and look in front of pot at bottom and see if slit for igniter is open or partially blocked with debris. The heat exchanger tubes are a 'friction " fit in the back. kap
Hi AnnaBee,
A standard inquiry question for a stove performance issue is the cleaning history - especially after multiple tons of pellets have been burned over the course of this grueling winter.
Has the entire stove exhaust pathway been cleaned of fly ash, ie the heat exchanger baffle, ash traps, combustion fan, exhaust plenum, and out through to the venting and the vent termination?
Ash obstruction anywhere in the exhaust pathway will reduce the ability of the combustion fan to create the forced draft needed to ignite the pellets and push the exhaust gases out the venting. Quads by design are made to pull allot of air through the fire pot, so more than likely your airflow is being obstructed somewhere.
Besides the igniter slit in the front of the fire pot that kap mentioned, are all the 8 small air holes - 4 along the bottom of the sloped section and 4 in the front of the pot - clear of ash and carbon build-up? If any of those fire pot holes are blocked, that will also reduce the combustion air flow through the burn pot, particularly during pellet ignition.
Good luck, and post back on what you find.
A standard inquiry question for a stove performance issue is the cleaning history - especially after multiple tons of pellets have been burned over the course of this grueling winter.
Has the entire stove exhaust pathway been cleaned of fly ash, ie the heat exchanger baffle, ash traps, combustion fan, exhaust plenum, and out through to the venting and the vent termination?
Ash obstruction anywhere in the exhaust pathway will reduce the ability of the combustion fan to create the forced draft needed to ignite the pellets and push the exhaust gases out the venting. Quads by design are made to pull allot of air through the fire pot, so more than likely your airflow is being obstructed somewhere.
Besides the igniter slit in the front of the fire pot that kap mentioned, are all the 8 small air holes - 4 along the bottom of the sloped section and 4 in the front of the pot - clear of ash and carbon build-up? If any of those fire pot holes are blocked, that will also reduce the combustion air flow through the burn pot, particularly during pellet ignition.
Good luck, and post back on what you find.
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Hdhogger
Feeling the Heat
You will get some smoke odor on a cold start sometimes and your blower will take a longer time to come on than when you have a warm or hot stove. My firebox fills with smoke and pops into a flame also, then it will start with a few sparks and ignite slowly other times.
If your stove is running good after starting I would say everything is ok.
If your stove is running good after starting I would say everything is ok.
This should be your first concerning if it is your combustion blower you are talking about. If the convection blower is the one that takes 10 to 15 mins to kick on then that is normal. Like Kappel stated resolve this issue first
!
Everyone has given you excellent advice. There should be no gaps in the heat exchanger. As Kap said it is a friction fit. If you get smoke or smell during startup, you have a leak or clogged exhaust.
The stove has been getting progressively worse over the last two years. I haven't been using it because of the smoke/smell issues. I had it cleaned in August and only ran it a few times. Each time I ran it the lingering smell got worse. I was told it was creosote from the chimney. I had it cleaned again a couple days ago. They cleaned creosote off a shelf in the chimney and added insulation since it wasn't added during installation. It smelled better until I ran it to test it. That's when we had the problem with the smoke in the chamber, although it happened before when it hadn't been used for awhile. The next three time I ran there was no smoke inside but the time it took for the blower to come on varied from two minutes to 20 minutes. The smoke being blown out of it is not normal. Each time I ran it the general smell got worse and now after four times it smells just as bad as it did before.There has to be a leak somewhere but the five companies I've had come to look at it can't seem to find the problem. I've had to run an air purifier 24 hours a day for over a year even when it is not being used. I've taped plastic over it to try to prevent it from stinking up the entire house. About a year ago someone replaced the burn pot because the heating element weld broke. He installed a bigger pot than we had before I feel like that me be part of the problem since I smell it coming from the bottom on the stove. If I can't figure out how to fix this then I am having it removed.
Hdhogger
Feeling the Heat
Have you checked these steps for a slow or smokey start. This is from your manual. And if you haven't, empty your ash pan.
Slow or smoky start-up. Firepot clean-out plate not closed-------Check that firepot clean-out is fully closed.
Firepot is dirty------------------------------- Clean firepot.Clinkers may have to pushed out of firepot with firepot clean-out tool or other means.
Excessive amount of fuel at start-up--- Reduce feed rate using feed rate adjustment control rod located inside hopper.
Slow or smoky start-up. Firepot clean-out plate not closed-------Check that firepot clean-out is fully closed.
Firepot is dirty------------------------------- Clean firepot.Clinkers may have to pushed out of firepot with firepot clean-out tool or other means.
Excessive amount of fuel at start-up--- Reduce feed rate using feed rate adjustment control rod located inside hopper.
Hello again AnnaBee,
Sorry to hear you're having on-going issues with your Quad. Typically the Castile has been a workhorse stove, and generally give trouble free operation once they are running right, which it doesn't sound like yours has been for a period of years, if not since the initial installation. Once the initial installation is done correctly, then keeping the stove and venting clear of exhaust path ash build-up becomes the next most common issue affecting stove performance - some say 80% or more of stove problems are cleaning related.
I have the free - standing Castile, so I'll have to defer to more knowledgeable folks on here who have Quad inserts, of which there are many. But It sounds like you have a chimney / venting issue at the least, if not a combination of a vent problem and a stove problem(s), which often becomes a process of elimination to figure out what's causing your issues.
Until your vent / chimney issues are right you really won't be able to trouble shoot any stove operation issues. Not to minimize what has obviously been a frustrating process for you, but your stove really only needs a couple of critical things for it to work - an adequate supply of negative pressure combustion air (generated by your exhaust blower) being pulled through a leak-free firebox, and an unobstructed leak-free vent system under enough positive pressure to push the exhaust gases out your vent.
From your description it sounds like the exhaust gases are either leaking out of the venting system, or are being obstructed somewhere, that is giving you your exhaust smell issues. Any small leak at any vent junction point can cause your exhaust smell, only made worse if the vent or stove is ash obstructed, with the combustion blower then less effective in pushing out the exhaust gases.
Describing in detail your venting set-up will help. Is it 3" or 4" pipe? Do you have a flex pipe that goes all the way to the top of the chimney, or is there a short flex section that goes into a chimney liner? What is the termination vent set-up at the top of the chimney? You're sure all that was cleaned thoroughly?
It sounds like you have had more than your share of stove techs come out to try to work on your stove. Maybe none of them have had the complete picture, and / or they were throwing a quick 'bandaid' fix in order to get out the door to their next service order, without finding the actual source of your problem. Not doing a trial burn of your stove after working on it, leaving that to you as the stove owner, is sub-standard technician service, IMO. Unfortunately, that too often seems the norm rather than the exception it seems, especially in the busy heating season when service requests are at their peak.
Did any of the 5 different techs you've apparently had work on it do the initial install? They would be the ones I would be 'holding to the fire' to try to help get some resolution of your smoke / smell issues. Until then, do you have working smoke and CO detectors? If you don't, you can't safely run your stove in the attempt to trouble shoot it. Your room air purifier and taped plastic won't protect you or your family from potentially lethal CO poisoning. That is my Paramedic - emergency services profession 'talking'....... Safety first......
Folks on here will try our best to 'help from afar'.
Sorry to hear you're having on-going issues with your Quad. Typically the Castile has been a workhorse stove, and generally give trouble free operation once they are running right, which it doesn't sound like yours has been for a period of years, if not since the initial installation. Once the initial installation is done correctly, then keeping the stove and venting clear of exhaust path ash build-up becomes the next most common issue affecting stove performance - some say 80% or more of stove problems are cleaning related.
I have the free - standing Castile, so I'll have to defer to more knowledgeable folks on here who have Quad inserts, of which there are many. But It sounds like you have a chimney / venting issue at the least, if not a combination of a vent problem and a stove problem(s), which often becomes a process of elimination to figure out what's causing your issues.
Until your vent / chimney issues are right you really won't be able to trouble shoot any stove operation issues. Not to minimize what has obviously been a frustrating process for you, but your stove really only needs a couple of critical things for it to work - an adequate supply of negative pressure combustion air (generated by your exhaust blower) being pulled through a leak-free firebox, and an unobstructed leak-free vent system under enough positive pressure to push the exhaust gases out your vent.
From your description it sounds like the exhaust gases are either leaking out of the venting system, or are being obstructed somewhere, that is giving you your exhaust smell issues. Any small leak at any vent junction point can cause your exhaust smell, only made worse if the vent or stove is ash obstructed, with the combustion blower then less effective in pushing out the exhaust gases.
Describing in detail your venting set-up will help. Is it 3" or 4" pipe? Do you have a flex pipe that goes all the way to the top of the chimney, or is there a short flex section that goes into a chimney liner? What is the termination vent set-up at the top of the chimney? You're sure all that was cleaned thoroughly?
It sounds like you have had more than your share of stove techs come out to try to work on your stove. Maybe none of them have had the complete picture, and / or they were throwing a quick 'bandaid' fix in order to get out the door to their next service order, without finding the actual source of your problem. Not doing a trial burn of your stove after working on it, leaving that to you as the stove owner, is sub-standard technician service, IMO. Unfortunately, that too often seems the norm rather than the exception it seems, especially in the busy heating season when service requests are at their peak.
Did any of the 5 different techs you've apparently had work on it do the initial install? They would be the ones I would be 'holding to the fire' to try to help get some resolution of your smoke / smell issues. Until then, do you have working smoke and CO detectors? If you don't, you can't safely run your stove in the attempt to trouble shoot it. Your room air purifier and taped plastic won't protect you or your family from potentially lethal CO poisoning. That is my Paramedic - emergency services profession 'talking'....... Safety first......
Folks on here will try our best to 'help from afar'.
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One possible cause of the smell is if the stove has the return air (OAK) running part way up the chimney. It will be sucking creosote (from the fireplace before the stove) smells into the area under the fire pot. That area is not sealed worth a flip and can leak out into the room, especially when the stove shuts down. The addition of insulation may have stopped the smell getting directly down to the back of the stove for a while. It sounds like a block off plate was not installed. Once the insulation got saturated with the smell it once again started leaking past the stove and it's surround. It's a possible, plausible explanation.
I had to ask the guys that came to clean it last week. They said it has a short flex pipe that goes into a 3" liner, which is one solid piece that runs all the way up the chimney. There is a cap at the top and a stainless steel plate. I'm pretty sure they thoroughly cleaned it because it didn't smell until I started to run it again.
The company that installed it went out of business a few years ago.
I had to ask the cleaning guys these questions, too. They said that the that the return air is not running up the chimney. They said it does not have a block off plate because it is a QuadraFire.
They believe that it smells because it has the wrong burn pot. I wanted to replace it anyway so I was going to order a new one but I decided to check it out again first. I noticed that when I open the door, the smell inside the chamber is different and mild. Therefore, I do think that it is a venting issue yet no one seems to be able to find the problem. It smells like creosote to me. I asked the cleaners if there was any chance that there could be a leak somewhere up the chimney and they said no. But the smell is definitely coming from the bottom of the unit. There are holes in the chimney front where there was a blower for when it was just a regular fireplace. I do not smell anything coming from there. When they vacuumed creosote off of the shelf I kept feeling like that has happened before. If that keeps happening what could be causing that? I think that is what I need to look in to next. The smell also got worse the last two days after it rained. They said it is sealed and the rain can't get in but it does seem to affect it. Could the old blower somehow affect it?
Page 15 and 16 of your manual, (broken link removed to http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/7022_122.pdf) shows a metal block-off plate in the full reline install directions, which is standard for all inserts as far as I know.
TJ or others on here with Castile inserts can chime in, but increased creosote smell after a rain indicates it must be coming out of your chimney somewhere. Do you know how the OAK, your outside air source, is vented ? If the tech says it does not go all the way up the chimney then it must go out through the back ? Look at the pg 15 / 16 manual pictures and see if yours is vented out the back, and maybe that is where your leak is coming from ?
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On cold chilly days, you can get a down draft in the chimney which carries the creosote odor into the house through the leaky bottom of the stove and around the surround. I don't have block off plates on either of my chimneys and sometimes (rarely) I will get the smell. I had wood burners in the fireplaces for years so there is no doubt creosote build up.
I checked with another repair person who was recently out here. I do have a stainless steel block off plate, which he assures me is properly sealed. He said that I do not have an outside air source and that may be the problem. He is supposed to come by this week to look at it again....
I would have him look at your heat exchanger tubes to make sure there are no issues there as suggested by someone else. A smoldering fire that lasts longer then the exhaust fan being on before stove shuts down could cause the smoke smell also Only way running with no oak would cause this is if you had negative pressure in the home kap
Even with a block off plate, if you were burning an open fire in the fireplace, the area BELOW the damper would have some creosote and be prone to smelling up the room. On damp days, with the stove off, there would be a down draft in the flue right into the stove and, like I said, the Quads aren't sealed very well and will let the smell into the room. It depends how sensitive to smells you are.
Anna Bee,
Sounds like not putting an outside air kit in at the onset was perhaps an 'installation misadventure' by whomever put your stove in, IMO.
Not uncommon that installers often don't want to take the time nor added cost to put an OAK in, but anyone on this forum who has one can attest to the improvement in combustion and reduction in drafts. And in your case in particular, it may be the way to stop your creosote smell intrusion that is infiltrating your house via your convection fan.
To avoid having to re-do the whole chimney venting, going straight out through the back of the chimney would likely be the easier way to go, shown on pg 15 of your manual.
Sounds like not putting an outside air kit in at the onset was perhaps an 'installation misadventure' by whomever put your stove in, IMO.
Not uncommon that installers often don't want to take the time nor added cost to put an OAK in, but anyone on this forum who has one can attest to the improvement in combustion and reduction in drafts. And in your case in particular, it may be the way to stop your creosote smell intrusion that is infiltrating your house via your convection fan.
To avoid having to re-do the whole chimney venting, going straight out through the back of the chimney would likely be the easier way to go, shown on pg 15 of your manual.
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One last question OR TWO. 
When the stove is pulled out of the fireplace, look carefully for any build up of ash on the floor of the stove or fireplace. If you see ANY even small piles of ash, you have a small leak in your piping. From my first hand experience, it doesn't take much of a leak to get that start up smell.
Also, when they clean the stove, I am assuming that they disconnect the flue from the stove at the snap clamps. Do they ever replace that gasket that goes between the two? If they don't unsnap the flue, then they aren't CLEANING the stove!
When the stove is pulled out of the fireplace, look carefully for any build up of ash on the floor of the stove or fireplace. If you see ANY even small piles of ash, you have a small leak in your piping. From my first hand experience, it doesn't take much of a leak to get that start up smell.
Also, when they clean the stove, I am assuming that they disconnect the flue from the stove at the snap clamps. Do they ever replace that gasket that goes between the two? If they don't unsnap the flue, then they aren't CLEANING the stove!
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