Question from a newbie "UPDATE"

[CTBurner]

Hello All, I am a newbie here and have some questions.

First let me quickly tell you my little woodburning experience. During the Carter years my new bride and I bought a Franklin Stove from sears for about $75.00. Hooked it up to our single flu chimney which also had the furnace on it. We heated solely by wood for 2 years. The stove was half cast iron , half steel, Not even close to airtight, just the opposite. To get enough heat to heat our 2 story 1600 ft home, we had to stuff it full of seasoned oak every 2 hours, set the alarm all night every 2 hours. Stove glowed red on a few occasions, Have not burned since then.

Fast forward 2008 we go out and buy a VC NC Defiant stove. Like everything else I buy , I then go home and look it up on the internet, and see all the bad press, etc. I have decided to give it a go and try to learn to make it burn correctly, So now we address the chimney and learn best option is to rip out the 130 year old chimney with all it rotted bricks and install new 2 flue in its place. Very expensive, but since we burn 6 to 7 tanks a year, I hope to someday see payback. We also know we enjoy wood stoves. I have already put up 3 cords of oak and maple dead wood, all solid with no rot but seasoned a few years on the ground. Hope to put up 6 more.

One question I have is about stove flue size, can be 6" and not be able to burn with doors open, or 8" and can. I care more about stove operating correctly than being able to have doors open, so do you think 6 or 8 is best choice?

Also any help anyone can add is greatly appreciated, chimney has not been done yet. Chimney height is 33'

 

[jdurando]

From looking at the manual it sounds to me like the stove needs the larger chimney to operate open due to it's size. With the doors open there is no limit the amount of air that can enter the huge (3.4 cubic foot) fire box an all that heated air has to squeeze into a 6" pipe to get out of your house. 8" pipe has more volume. However the 6" pipe with the door closed should send the hot gases up the chimney faster. Less time to cool means less creosote. Also consider 6” is much more common for use on stoves. The DEFIANT is a very large stove you are heating 1600 sqft the age of your house dose justify over sizing but if you do find it difficult to operate and decide to change to a different stove you will have more options with 6". Well that’s just my $0.02 hope it helps

John

 

[crazy_dan]

according to what i found on web search yes you can use 6" flue, with a 33' chimney it should draw very good and you should have no poor or weak draft problems.

 

[begreen]

I too suspect the Defiant may be a bit too big for the house. Try the 6" pipe, you may be downsizing.

 

[CTBurner]

Thanks for all the info, Our house has insulation in attic only and 23 windows 12 over 12 panes, no storm windows and very drafty, Maybe I should have got the next model down??? It is probable 2 late to change cause we ordered a biscuit color.

 

[begreen]

If you can drop down to the Encore, that seems like a better fit.

Time to invest in storm windows methinks. And get caulking! It's cheap and pays back almost instantly.

 

[CTBurner]

Yes I may try to trade down, My thought was that if oversized I could always burn it slower/ We do want warm. also storm windows are out cause the wife does not like the way they look, lol

Thanks for your opinion and please do not stop, I appreciate all the help i can get

 

[begreen]

Tell the wife to go out and get an extra job to pay for the "looks". A nice storm window in no way deters from the classic divided light look and it saves fuel. And they are removable in spring/summer. Time you took the upper hand and steered the ship towards common sense. Single pane is so 1880's .

 

[CTBurner]

Yes you are right.

another question, how many cords should I plan on burning???? considering all very well seasoned hardwood

 

[fraxinus]

It won't help with the issue of your need for two flues, but it might be worth investigating a poured in place liner as an alternative to tearing down the existing chimney and rebuilding. A poured in place liner will strengthen the existing chimney, provide insulation and improve draft with its smooth interior surface. There are several systems. Supaflu (www.supaflu.com)is the only one with which I have had direct and very positive experience. Since you're planning on not using the furnace very much, it might be possible to install a metal chimney or power vent system for it. Doing both the poured liner and a seperate vent for the furnace should be a lot cheaper than a teardown and rebuild.

 

[begreen]

Yes you are right.

another question, how many cords should I plan on burning???? considering all very well seasoned hardwood

Hard to say. If you get the Defiant, I suspect you'll be burning fall/spring with the windows open so it's anyone's guess at how much wood will be consumed. With an Encore (no slouch of a stove) I would guess 5-6 cords. If you address the leaks and windows, then maybe as low as 4 cords.

BTW, I am assuming you are getting a catalytic stove, is this correct or are you getting a downdraft version?

 

[CTBurner]

Hi, Not catalytic, everburn. I have read all that was written on the forum about everburn vc and am a little worried about getting it to burn properly?
I wish I had read forum before purchase but I did not

 

[begreen]

Given the history of these stoves, VC's troubles and the fact that you want to burn it on idle, I'd call the dealer and find out the cancellation cost and whether the deposit could be transfered to another brand. If not, I would try hard to switch to an Encore CAT which has a fairly good track record.

 

[CTBurner]

First I want to thank evertone here, I love this forum.

I have been burning our VC Encore everburn for 2 weeks now, I am glad I took BEGREEN'S advise and moved down to the encore vs the defiant. Anyway We had 5/6 nights here where it got down to 40 degrees and so I tryed to acheive everburn. First night I know I had an insufeicent coal bed so I got the rumble for 5 mins, After watching Gordo's video . the next night I had a good 2-3 inch coal bed, got the temp up on stovetop tp 650 and engaged everburn. had a nice 5 hour burn. since then I have been getting 6 hour burns, with air shut down. A couple of times I stalled but I asked myself why and it was either not enough coal bed or not enough temp. I am very happy with this VC. I would like to extend my burns to 7 hours and believe I can bt packing in more wood. I am burning well seasoned oak. I was real scared after I bought the stove in july and then found the forum only to read all the bad press. Maybe I just got lucky so far. I am very thankful for this forum, I have learned much and Gordo's video's are great, I believe he has a Dutchwest but is similar to Encore/defiant, same principle. I have learned you need coal bed,the right temp, good seasoned hardwood and its easy.

 

[BurningIsLove]

Welcome, CTBurner.

Glad to hear you're having good success with your new stove! You'll find you can definitely tweak several aspects to get the most out of your burn times, such as coal/split orientation, how unevenly you coal fresh loaded splits, etc.

Did U ever post pics of your setup? Curious as to whether you have metal or masonry chimney, vertical or horizontal flue collar, etc. I'm keeping an unofficial list of owners on the forum who've posted reviews & issues of their non-cat stoves (everburn) from VC/DW/Monessan. The overall pattern is that owners w/ vertical flue & metal chimney have the easiest time using the stove. Those with masonry chimneys or horizontal flue collars have the most problems. Not too surprising given that the former will draft much more readily (and quickly) that the latter setup, and draft is crucial to this style of stove.

 

[Diabel]

CTB,

I am glad you like the stove & that you got the hang of it this quickly!

This will be my third season burning in my unit. The first year I had no clue what I was doing %-P Dealer/Installer did not educate me on the stove at all (mind you it was not their job!) I basically used it as it was a cat stove (had previous experience with those). The process was simple...bring the griddle temp to 450* close the damper & forget about it, sometimes it would rumble but not very often.

The second year (last season) thank to this forum I learned ho to work this stove...It took me a good two months but I got it & I can say now I like the stove & what it can do.

Keys to make it work properly as the patient experts here have already said many times are:

Seasoned wood
Proper draft.

This brings me to your initial post...Your chimney is 33' long That is 12' longer than mine :gulp: It will be interesting how your unit performs in dead of winter. A flue damper comes to mind. I hope you keep us posted.

 

[BurningIsLove]

An echo of Diabel's comment....with such a long stack, when it's cold out these downdraft stoves can run away on you even if all your gaskets are leak-free. A flue damper is a fair amount of work and may be tough to implement based on your setup. As it gets colder, a simple safety step is to have a wad of tin foil at the ready by the stove. if you get a runaway, just put that over the secondary air intake which provides a quick safety brake.

 

[Diabel]

An echo of Diabel's comment....with such a long stack, when it's cold out these downdraft stoves can run away on you even if all your gaskets are leak-free. A flue damper is a fair amount of work and may be tough to implement based on your setup. As it gets colder, a simple safety step is to have a wad of tin foil at the ready by the stove. if you get a runaway, just put that over the secondary air intake which provides a quick safety brake.

Oh yeah, in this case have a tin foil ball handy! Once last year I think I had a run-way fire (maybe not) stack temp read 750* (magnetic thermo.) griddle 700* The rumble was like a jet engine :wow: I put a ball of tin foil in the intake..within 60sec the stove came down to a nice 650* griddle & 450* stack. It stayed like that for a good 3hrs.

I am glad to see that more & more everburn people coming here & sharing their experiences! This should be an awesome burning season!

 

[CTBurner]

An echo of Diabel's comment....with such a long stack, when it's cold out these downdraft stoves can run away on you even if all your gaskets are leak-free. A flue damper is a fair amount of work and may be tough to implement based on your setup. As it gets colder, a simple safety step is to have a wad of tin foil at the ready by the stove. if you get a runaway, just put that over the secondary air intake which provides a quick safety brake.

Chimney is 33" tall in the center of house, 8" flue, masonry chimney, The thimble for the stove is 14' above the cleanout. I have always wondered if the dead space below the thimble has any effect on draft????. stove has 8"' black pipe. 3' up to 90 then right into thimble. Will post picture soon.

Thanks for the tip on aluminum foil for a runaway stopper

 

[Jags]

An echo of Diabel's comment....with such a long stack, when it's cold out these downdraft stoves can run away on you even if all your gaskets are leak-free. A flue damper is a fair amount of work and may be tough to implement based on your setup. As it gets colder, a simple safety step is to have a wad of tin foil at the ready by the stove. if you get a runaway, just put that over the secondary air intake which provides a quick safety brake.

Chimney is 33" tall in the center of house, 8" flue, masonry chimney, The thimble for the stove is 14' above the cleanout. I have always wondered if the dead space below the thimble has any effect on draft????. stove has 8"' black pipe. 3' up to 90 then right into thimble. Will post picture soon.

Thanks for the tip on aluminum foil for a runaway stopper

Yes, this will work, but if you need to use this approach, be aware that if you REMOVE that foil and introduce a gust of fresh oxygen to a starved fire, bad things can happen. Leave the foil on until the stove cools down. Just some advice from a guy that has had a "flashback" (different stove, different circumstances, but it will create the same environment).

 

[Diabel]

Good point Jags,

The tinfoil ball shall not be hard i.e. you're not making a golf ball out of it. there should be plenty of room for air to pass through it, otherwise "yes" you don't want to starve the fire.

 

[CTBurner]

An echo of Diabel's comment....with such a long stack, when it's cold out these downdraft stoves can run away on you even if all your gaskets are leak-free. A flue damper is a fair amount of work and may be tough to implement based on your setup. As it gets colder, a simple safety step is to have a wad of tin foil at the ready by the stove. if you get a runaway, just put that over the secondary air intake which provides a quick safety brake.

Chimney is 33" tall in the center of house, 8" flue, masonry chimney, The thimble for the stove is 14' above the cleanout. I have always wondered if the dead space below the thimble has any effect on draft????. stove has 8"' black pipe. 3' up to 90 then right into thimble. Will post picture soon.

Thanks for the tip on aluminum foil for a runaway stopper

Yes, this will work, but if you need to use this approach, be aware that if you REMOVE that foil and introduce a gust of fresh oxygen to a starved fire, bad things can happen. Leave the foil on until the stove cools down. Just some advice from a guy that has had a "flashback" (different stove, different circumstances, but it will create the same environment).

so is like like having a shorter chimney or doesn,t it work that way

 

[Diabel]

The fact that it is 8" plus the 90deg. elbow you reducing it (draft) quite a bit. Set up pics would be nice. Do not loose sleep over it, just see how the stove behaves YES "babysit" it for a while. You just might have the perfect set up!

 

[Brian VT]

I've been following the tinfoil thing with interest since I'm a newbie just installing my stove now.
My VC Resolute Acclaim's secondary air is the little holes in the back, right ? Should I twist up some small foil plugs to have at the ready ?

 

[BurningIsLove]

Brian (and other new owners),

Sorry, didnt mean to create a panic, chances are most people will never encounter this situation, especially if you only have small secondary intake holes. The Dutchwest stove has a circular, fist-sized intake for secondary air which is rather large compared to other stoves I've seen (my experience prior to this stove is mostly catalytic). If you only have small intake holes, likely you could never draft hard enough to pull enough air in to create a runaway. Even with my stove, the number of runaway burns I've had is single digits in 3 years, and I burn 24x7.

If keeping a sheet of tin foil by the stove to place over the small holes makes you feel safer, it never hurts to be prepared. I dont know what the back of your stove looks like, but I'd caution against sticking tin foil into those small holes lest one gets sucked in, albeit astronomically unlikely. On my style stove, one can also just put a sheet covering the hole (vs. a wadded up ball inside), and it has the same effect of reducing draft.