Rain Water on Seasoned Oak

[philt]

Hi all,
Bought a couple of builders bags of oak and ash for our first year of burning, the guy who delivered it assured us it was well seasoned and should be 16-18%.
We tested a good sample of it and most was reading in the 30s and some lower down had mould. He then said it had got wet in the bags and after a few days of air drying should be ok.
We left a few in front of our stove last night and the content came down a bit but have we been had?

 

[DonTee]

If you’re taking a piece and resplitting it, letting it sit at room temp for 24 hours and then testing it, then yes, 30% is not from sitting in the rain for a day.

Once the middle of the wood is dry it should stay pretty much dry. Unless it’s out sitting in water for a long time.

Also I don’t know what kind of ash you have there, but the stuff here dries very fast. And oak dries very slow. Seems an odd mix of species. The ash would dry in like 6 months, and the oak would take like 2 years. Have you tested a piece of each?

 

[philt]

If you’re taking a piece and resplitting it, letting it sit at room temp for 24 hours and then testing it, then yes, 30% is not from sitting in the rain for a day.

Once the middle of the wood is dry it should stay pretty much dry. Unless it’s out sitting in water for a long time.

Also I don’t know what kind of ash you have there, but the stuff here dries very fast. And oak dries very slow. Seems an odd mix of species. The ash would dry in like 6 months, and the oak would take like 2 years. Have you tested a piece of each?

It's 30%+ before bringing in and warming up. After 5 hours of burning it was reading 25 ish but burned ok with some really dry stuff.

 

[Supersurvey]

Does the wood look weathered or freshly split?

 

[philt]

It doesn't look freshly split, I'm just surprised how much water it has taken on if it is properly seasoned

 

[johneh]

Rain evaporates off very fast. If it is 30 % at room temp and a fresh split
It is not seasoned dry wood no matter what your supplier says. My 3
year air-dried Oak not covered tested today at 16% and it got rained on yesterday morning

 

[stoveliker]

If you’re taking a piece and resplitting it, letting it sit at room temp for 24 hours and then testing it, then yes, 30% is not from sitting in the rain for a day.

The other way around: first let it sit for 24 hrs to reach room temp and then resplit it and measure. If you first split and then let it sit for 24 hrs, the new surface will already have dried a bit.

 

[DonTee]

I agree that’s the right order to do it in, but I’d bet that the 24 hours isn’t going to make a huge difference in the measurement.

Let’s do a test. I have some wood that’s already at room temp in my house. I’ll take a piece and split it, test the Mc, and then retest in 24 hours. How much moisture do you think it will loose in that time?

I might be wrong, but there’s only one way to find out

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Any wood from a wood seller is going to be high moisture content. It’s just how it goes. And they all either lie or don’t know what dry is. A lot probably don’t care. We’ve all been “burned” by wood sellers. Best to allow the wood to dry at your place for a summer season before burning. You yourself will have treated that wood better than the seller ever did (dumped in a big pile).

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Id say you purchased unseasoned wood.. wood that us seasoned will take up some moisture.. but not alot and not deep inside the split.. sounds like you got not seasoned

 

[philt]

Any wood from a wood seller is going to be high moisture content. It’s just how it goes. And they all either lie or don’t know what dry is. A lot probably don’t care. We’ve all been “burned” by wood sellers. Best to allow the wood to dry at your place for a summer season before burning. You yourself will have treated that wood better than the seller ever did (dumped in a big pile).

Yeah, he said the bags we got were 'bottom of the pile' and clearly had been open to the elements so all the water has run down into our bags, but looks like they probably weren't fully seasoned either. Annoying as we should be all set for next year, this is our first real year of burning so we needed to buy fully seasoned wood for this Winter.

 

[DonTee]

You could probably pick through what you got and burn just the ash this winter. It still sucks, but it’s better than nothing.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

grab some compressed bricks and mix it in..

 

[DonTee]

Just for poops and giggles I did a little test. I got some ash and red oak and brought it inside for 24 hours. Then I split it, and tested the Mc. After that I let it sit inside for 24 more hours, and tested Mc again.

Oak before and after
28.1% and 27.9%

Ash before and after
20.2 and 19.8%

Both samples are about 6 months old. Obviously the oak has a bit more time before it’s dry.

I was just curious how much freshly split side would dry inside for 24 hours.

A few years back I didn’t have enough seasoned firewood. I would bring a face cord at a time in the house and let it dry a week to two before burning it. In that time I was able to dry it (it was ash btw) 1-2% below what it was. But I don’t think that would work with wood like oak.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Hi all,
Bought a couple of builders bags of oak and ash for our first year of burning, the guy who delivered it assured us it was well seasoned and should be 16-18%.
We tested a good sample of it and most was reading in the 30s and some lower down had mould. He then said it had got wet in the bags and after a few days of air drying should be ok.
We left a few in front of our stove last night and the content came down a bit but have we been had?

constant saturation from rain followed by a lack of air/sun will cause it to take on the water. I have a section of my wood pile that has a leak on the 'roof' and the wood is substantially heavier to pick up there. The MC of that wood is very high. I bought another tarp and hope to have it dry before I need it late season. The challenge is, it doesnt get much sun there ever and it's on the back side of the wind direction.
ALL of your wood shouldnt be wet though. If you split it and let it sit inside for 24 hours THEN read the MC it should be below 20%, if it isnt then the guy doesnt know what he is talking about and is just guessing and ripping people off (intentionally or unintentionally...)

 

[stoveliker]

Just for poops and giggles I did a little test. I got some ash and red oak and brought it inside for 24 hours. Then I split it, and tested the Mc. After that I let it sit inside for 24 more hours, and tested Mc again.

Oak before and after
28.1% and 27.9%

Ash before and after
20.2 and 19.8%

Both samples are about 6 months old. Obviously the oak has a bit more time before it’s dry.

I was just curious how much freshly split side would dry inside for 24 hours.

A few years back I didn’t have enough seasoned firewood. I would bring a face cord at a time in the house and let it dry a week to two before burning it. In that time I was able to dry it (it was ash btw) 1-2% below what it was. But I don’t think that would work with wood like oak.

interesting. I'll do the same soon.
What was the inside temp? And what was the relative humidity? Was there any air flow on the splits inside or not?

 

[Simonkenton]

It is hard to believe that it dried that much in 24 hours.

 

[stoveliker]

I think the variability from how far the pins are in, how many fibers crossed (alignment of pins to the grain), and how close to the edge of the split was measured, is more than 1 percent. So I don't think these numbers indicate it dried any.
(Which still surprises me.)

 

[vbu]

Just for poops and giggles I did a little test. I got some ash and red oak and brought it inside for 24 hours. Then I split it, and tested the Mc. After that I let it sit inside for 24 more hours, and tested Mc again.

Oak before and after
28.1% and 27.9%

Ash before and after
20.2 and 19.8%

Both samples are about 6 months old. Obviously the oak has a bit more time before it’s dry.

I was just curious how much freshly split side would dry inside for 24 hours.

A few years back I didn’t have enough seasoned firewood. I would bring a face cord at a time in the house and let it dry a week to two before burning it. In that time I was able to dry it (it was ash btw) 1-2% below what it was. But I don’t think that would work with wood like oak.

The reasoning behind brining it inside for 24 hrs is not to let it dry, it is to let the wood warm up. Your meter will not give an accurate reading when your wood is 0 degrees, your reading will be lower. I've seen charts here, but can't recall how far off you would be. I believe the meters are calibrated for a temperature around 70 degrees.

 

[stoveliker]

That is correct. The question here is whether first splitting and then warming up (for 24 hrs) or vice versa matters. Clearly in theory warming up and then splitting is best. But the question whether the difference in practice is sufficiently significant elicited the poops and giggles experiment above.

 

[vbu]

Oh okay I must've read it wrong then. I actually wondered the same thing before, so good experiment! Ignore my above comment then, my bad.

 

[DonTee]

@stoveliker
I agree I got the order wrong in my first post. But that got me curious how much of a difference it would make. So I did the little test.

The thing that makes a big difference is warming the wood up. I tested another piece of oak as soon as I brought it in, and then again later when it was warmed up. The difference was 24% cold and 28% room temp.

Anyways, I didn’t mean to come across like I was arguing or anything 👍🏻

 

[stoveliker]

No, I'm not arguing, and I did not have the impression you were either.

I had a belief (instilled to me by others on this website with more experience than I have) that it's needed to split (a room temp split) right before measuring it. As I said, that makes sense.
I just never questioned it. So I'm glad experiments are done
(As an experimentalist scientist, I always advocate that experiment beats theory ...)

The effect of temperature is well known (and documented in tables available online).

 

[philt]

Thanks everyone for the advice and suggestions. We stacked it all up outside then have been bringing batches inside for a couple days before burning, at which point most does seem to be dropping below 20% and burning well, others not so much. To be fair to the guy he's not asking for payment until we are happy with it.