Ranch Home Heating Question

[cueball44]

Good folks of Hearth.com

I am looking for a little bit of discussion regarding the heating of my newly acquired ranch home in the great white Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

Background: I sold my 1950's 1500sqft Craftsman style home that I installed a Drolet Deco II into. The setup was less than ideal with lots of small divided rooms making it challenging to get heat into every room, but we still successfully knocked down our natural gas bill by 90% and my family stayed nice and toasty. I'm hoping this new home has a better setup for heating that will help lower our propane bill.

Discussion: As mentioned, I purchased a 1200 sqft ranch (1200 upstairs and 1200 unfinished downstairs) that has a lot of upsides, however the home being reliant on propane for heat was on of the downsides we were able to cope with. It does have a brand new NTI FTVN110 propane boiler, however I'm trying to continue to burn wood as I did in my last home to lower the reliance on propane. The existing wood stove (from 1978) is located in the center of the unfinished basement. At first glance I thought it would be an okay stove to use, but after further inspection I believe it is either homemade or a bit too 'customized' for my likings. Customizations include old disconnected piping that likely fed to an older boiler, an outdoor air breather connecting to the back of the house via metal ducting and an overhead circulating fan that pushes air upstairs. The existing stove is the only appliance that feeds into a large chimney with a liner of unknown material. I'm looking for a setup that allows me to burn for 8ish hours and keep the home warm for my wife and two kiddos. Please take a second to review the questions below or ask new questions if you feel inclined to.

Questions:
1. Is a free standing wood stove a good option for this home layout and existing heating infrastructure?
2. Are there any obvious reasons to avoid a wood stove in the existing location? Proximity to the propane boiler, lack of heat transfer in the basement, etc?
3. What is your recommendation for a wood stove in this location, climate, etc.? I'm currently looking at PE Alderlea T5 LE, but I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks so much!

 

[EbS-P]

Heating an unfinished and uninsulated basement is less than ideal. Think minimum 30% heat loss.

Is T ing into the chimney upstairs an option??

Either way plan on an insulated liner for what ever you choose

 

[kborndale]

How tall would the exhaust be? If it is less than 15ft that will limit you on what stoves you can use. This would be an even larger issue if you try to put a stove on the main floor. If the basement is not insulated I would spend money on that first. Heating from the basement can be difficult but not impossible. Many do it including myself. I prefer it as it keeps the mess down there.

 

[cueball44]

Thanks so much for the responses!

So, part of the basement is "finished" in the sense that they put up rough cut lumber and some less than ideal foam board insulation, however that is going to be removed in short order. New insulation on both the walls and rim joists is on the to-do list in the near term.

The setup is amazing compared to my last place with a walkout basement for quick and easy loading.

Here is another photo of the outside of the house to visualize the chimney height, material if you're a chimney aficionado and size of the home.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Good folks of Hearth.com

I am looking for a little bit of discussion regarding the heating of my newly acquired ranch home in the great white Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

Background: I sold my 1950's 1500sqft Craftsman style home that I installed a Drolet Deco II into. The setup was less than ideal with lots of small divided rooms making it challenging to get heat into every room, but we still successfully knocked down our natural gas bill by 90% and my family stayed nice and toasty. I'm hoping this new home has a better setup for heating that will help lower our propane bill.

Discussion: As mentioned, I purchased a 1200 sqft ranch (1200 upstairs and 1200 unfinished downstairs) that has a lot of upsides, however the home being reliant on propane for heat was on of the downsides we were able to cope with. It does have a brand new NTI FTVN110 propane boiler, however I'm trying to continue to burn wood as I did in my last home to lower the reliance on propane. The existing wood stove (from 1978) is located in the center of the unfinished basement. At first glance I thought it would be an okay stove to use, but after further inspection I believe it is either homemade or a bit too 'customized' for my likings. Customizations include old disconnected piping that likely fed to an older boiler, an outdoor air breather connecting to the back of the house via metal ducting and an overhead circulating fan that pushes air upstairs. The existing stove is the only appliance that feeds into a large chimney with a liner of unknown material. I'm looking for a setup that allows me to burn for 8ish hours and keep the home warm for my wife and two kiddos. Please take a second to review the questions below or ask new questions if you feel inclined to.

Questions:
1. Is a free standing wood stove a good option for this home layout and existing heating infrastructure?
2. Are there any obvious reasons to avoid a wood stove in the existing location? Proximity to the propane boiler, lack of heat transfer in the basement, etc?
3. What is your recommendation for a wood stove in this location, climate, etc.? I'm currently looking at PE Alderlea T5 LE, but I'm open to suggestions.

Thanks so much!

View attachment 339837
View attachment 339838

I kinda like the setup. Could you try it as is?, or is it now decommissioned and will never run again. You could replace it with a cheap steel Drolet and new piping. You can keep all the mess and lots of wood down there and not worry about getting it too hot down there. You may stud and insulate walls down there but since the stove is in the center that really helps.

 

[cueball44]

I could try it as is, but was a little apprehensive due to it not have been used for 10+ years and the unknown status of the chimney. That paired with the obvious inefficiency of the stove led me to thinking that an insulated liner and newer stove could be a worthy investment.

 

[Whitenuckler]

I could try it as is, but was a little apprehensive due to it not have been used for 10+ years and the unknown status of the chimney. That paired with the obvious inefficiency of the stove led me to thinking that an insulated liner and newer stove could be a worthy investment.

Oh yes you would have to go through the inspection and cleaning process on the existing setup if you want to run it as is. Or like you say, just skip that and get new. You certainly don't want to burn twice as much, or produce twice as much "smog".
Here is the bigger Drolet which it says is made in USA and Canada

High Efficiency Wood Stove | HT-3000

HT-3000 wood stove - EPA certified at 1.32 g/h - 110 000 BTU/h - Heats up to 2,700 ft² - 22" logs - Model on pedestal - Made in Canada Can.

www.drolet.ca

You don't really need a glass door must might be useful in the future if you finish more of the basement. You can also see the status of the flame. You will need to double check the specs for chimney ie height, size, type ect for each stove you might like.

Are your floor joists insulated? If not you should get some heated floors.

 

[Turbo89]

Nice looking setup, I grew up in similarly configured home with an old Russo wood /coal stove. It had uninsulated walls, but was below grade and we never had any issues keeping the home warm.

I wonder if the previous owners were using the T for clean out access? If I were planning to stay in the home for a while, and could swing it, I would upgrade to modern CAT stove… but if not I’d burn that for a few seasons after inspection.

Hopefully this helps, I don’t have a good recommendation for a stove that matches that sq-ft; but if I were in the market I’d be looking for a minimum firebox size of 2.3 cu-ft, so I can get a 10+hr burn.

 

[Todd]

Go big! How close is the stairwell to the stove? The closer the better, it will be your main flow of heat. I’ve heated two different ranch style houses in the UP with basement wood stoves one in Chassell and the other in Marquette. Both did well once I figured out a good convection loop. It will be a bit cooler upstairs but you will still save a bundle on propane.

 

[cueball44]

Thanks everybody for your input! The more the merrier!

I think at this point I'm leaning towards going with scrapping the old stove and installing a new larger stove with a new insulated SS chimney liner.

At this point, I'm still deciding if a cat/noncat stove makes the most sense, but at the moment I'm thinking about using a catalytic stove for the longer burn times. I understand there will be more potential annual maintenance, but I like the thought of a longer burn time and being able to burn nice dry pine if necessary.

To answer some of your questions...
- No the floor joists aren't insulated (which will hopefully yield some toasty floors).
- The staircase to the main floor isn't directly nearby, but roughly 10 - 15 feet away.

 

[EbS-P]

You are way up north. the cat will give consistent heat but not much longer burn times when it’s cold. Any idea of the out of heat you will need?

 

[kborndale]

Cat stove will do great for you in the shoulder season for long burn times, but don't expect those long burn times mid winter. There are only so many btus in wood and cat stoves dont magically increase that number.

 

[cueball44]

Thanks for the background on cat stoves! Having only used non-catalytic stoves I'm coming from a fairly naive viewpoint.

Luckily our nearby proximity to Lake Superior helps keep us a little warmer in the winter then the rest of our Midwest neighbors, but it has side effects... Like 300+ inches of snow side effects. Our normal temperature range from December to March is high single digits to mid 20's.

That's a great question about heat output.... Since we haven't been through a winter yet in this house I'm stuck going off the rating of the new propane boiler for a general understanding of the heating needs and the boiler is rated for a maximum output of 110,000 btu/hr. I'm sort of thinking due to its basement location that a nice large and in charge HT-3000, King40 or similar will be ideal. Plus my wife likes the house unsettlingly warm so if it's too hot she's at least happy... lol

 

[EbS-P]

Thanks for the background on cat stoves! Having only used non-catalytic stoves I'm coming from a fairly naive viewpoint.

Luckily our nearby proximity to Lake Superior helps keep us a little warmer in the winter then the rest of our Midwest neighbors, but it has side effects... Like 300+ inches of snow side effects. Our normal temperature range from December to March is high single digits to mid 20's.

That's a great question about heat output.... Since we haven't been through a winter yet in this house I'm stuck going off the rating of the new propane boiler for a general understanding of the heating needs and the boiler is rated for a maximum output of 110,000 btu/hr. I'm sort of thinking due to its basement location that a nice large and in charge HT-3000, King40 or similar will be ideal. Plus my wife likes the house unsettlingly warm so if it's too hot she's at least happy... lol

King 40 is 8in. Need to make sure an insulated 8” fits.

 

[cueball44]

Just from a visual inspection of the chimney it seems like an insulated 8in would not be a problem at all to feed down as the opening at the top seems to be closer to the +12in mark, but thanks for the reminder to do a thorough inspection before committing to a stove.

 

[Highbeam]

From the basement you also have a pretty ideal setup for a wood furnace. Drolet makes one. If you go with a stove do not choose a T5, much too small. T6 is better. The king would be great. Thermostatic control, control to choose long burn times or shorter, BIG fuel tank for less loading and a deep ash belly for less cleaning.

Lots of options. I'd be putting in a king. Especially if you want to burn pine since it just holds so much more wood and is able to meter out the heat.

 

[kborndale]

When the temps are below 20 the king won't be getting much more burn time than the HT-3000. Not worth the extra cost of the king and the 8" flue in my opinion. We aren't talking a couple hundred dollars.

 

[Todd]

When the temps are below 20 the king won't be getting much more burn time than the HT-3000. Not worth the extra cost of the king and the 8" flue in my opinion. We aren't talking a couple hundred dollars.

Maybe so but for the long shoulder seasons in the UP I’d love the King for this application.

 

[marty319]

Maybe so but for the long shoulder seasons in the UP I’d love the King for this application.

Maybe so but I thought my osburn 3300 was an ugly stove till I saw my friends king

 

[Whitenuckler]

Maybe so but I thought my osburn 3300 was an ugly stove till I saw my friends king

King 40 - Blaze King

At 81% efficiency the King is the most efficient wood stove in the world. This allows you to get the most heat out of your wood to reduce your heating costs. The King has the largest and deepest firebox of any stove on the market and is for serious wood burners. This stove is great for families...

www.blazeking.com

I didn't know what it looked like. I really don't like it. It reminds me of a pellet stove, but my P43 looks way better.

Edit - as was pointed out, it will be in the unfinished basement, and the appearance will make no difference.
It is a sleek modern look.

 

[bigealta]

King 40 - Blaze King

At 81% efficiency the King is the most efficient wood stove in the world. This allows you to get the most heat out of your wood to reduce your heating costs. The King has the largest and deepest firebox of any stove on the market and is for serious wood burners. This stove is great for families...

www.blazeking.com

I didn't know what it looked like. I really don't like it. It reminds me of a pellet stove, but my P43 looks way better.

Well it will be in the basement so that might help if you're basically using it as a furnace vs. the centerpiece heater in your living room.

 

[Highbeam]

When the temps are below 20 the king won't be getting much more burn time than the HT-3000. Not worth the extra cost of the king and the 8" flue in my opinion. We aren't talking a couple hundred dollars.

That’s just not true. First of all the king holds way more wood. Like an extra 25%. So it just has more potential heat. Then, the king is much more efficient so you get more of that heat delivered. Then in my actual experience burning both a BK and a noncat, you just can blow through fuel way faster in the noncat.

I can burn back to back to back 3 hour full loads through my 3.5 cf stove. Nobody can do that in a king, the thermostat just doesn’t let you. Noncat efficiency seems to plummet when you really need high output. There’s a sweet spot where they do pretty good.

At any chosen output level, the king has much longer burn times and no babysitting. Mostly due to the huge firebox volume.

 

[begreen]

There's also the big Regency 5200 that's worth considering. 4.4 cu ft capacity with an 8" flue collar in a good looking steel package. However, if a new liner is going in then it should be 6" and the OP's original thought of the Alderlea T5 or a T6 would work.