The existing propane system would be used as back-up and I have no plans of getting rid of that system. It's a single zone for the house with a nice high efficiency boiler that was installed in 2023.
Ranch Home Heating Question
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EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Once you go BK king I don’t think one would ever go back! If the extra cost of the Bk40 and 8 in liner VS say the biggest Dolet doesn’t bother you then I can’t find any reason not to go down the BK40 route. It’s simple, efficient, and robust. Wood boilers are considerably more complex systems.
I'm not sure why @begreen said any new liner "should be" a 6" liner. They sell 8" insulated liners too. Especially with a liner, it could always be removed and replaced with a 6" liner if in the future you felt it was needed for a different appliance.
On the wood boiler, the wood boilers themselves are extremely expensive but then you need to also add insulated storage tanks. Takes up a lot of space and with considerable complexity. Heat dumps, circulation pumps, computers. They're really cool when finished but take a lot of knowledge and up front investment. I have radiant tubing in my well insulated shop slab. 1800 feet of pipe for hot water but the boiler system is prohibitively expensive so I heat the shop with a woodstove.
The BK is great in the basement because the thermostat lets you set it and forget it for up to 40 hours. That thermostat is unique to only the BK. There is also the princess model on a 6" flue. It's only 2.9 cubic feet so will have a correspondingly shorter burntime of up to 30 hours and lower max output level.
I would not put in an 8" liner these days unless it was the only option or required to connect a specific unit. In this situation, it's an unwarranted expense. Instead, I'd put any savings into insulating the basement walls and sealing the sill plate first. Then, a good ~ 3 cu ft stove will suffice to heat, especially considering it is just for backup. There are lots of options to choose from in that range depending on the budget.
If the current stove is strictly for emergency, power outage backup, I'd have the current system inspected to determine whether it was properly installed and safe to operate. The old stove may not be very efficient, but if it's only going to get used for a few days at the most, then it may suffice. Visually, it doesn't look too bad but it needs to be examined thoroughly, inside and out. If the prior owners also used it only for emergency heat, it may have low hours on it. This is TBD.
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Sorry for any confusion, but I plan on using the wood stove as the main source of heat for the house during the cold months of the year up here. There is a propane boiler that can be used if needed, but I would rather not pay the full propane bill.
I did just find a small hiccup that might throw a wrench into my plans. For some background, the previous owner and builder of the house was a very handy machinist. I was doing some more snooping around and found that the chimney pipe inside of the chimney is a SOLID piece of heavy gauge steel that runs the entirety of the chimney. The existing pipe is uninsulated and is a 6" diameter pipe.
I remember the daughter of the owner telling me they lowered this piece in with a crane. All of the thimbles (one for the wood stove and one for the sauna stove) are welded on to the chimney and the chimney pipe looks to be in good condition. So, that being said it seems my options are pretty slim with this new found information. The only feasible route ahead that I could see being an option is using a product like a chimney insulation mix to keep the thick gauge steel properly insulated. Otherwise I might be stuck just using the system as is after an inspection.
Update: An old timer that has been in the chimney repair and inspection business for 50+ years is going to stop by to give me an opinion. I'll post back on here when swings by.
I did just find a small hiccup that might throw a wrench into my plans. For some background, the previous owner and builder of the house was a very handy machinist. I was doing some more snooping around and found that the chimney pipe inside of the chimney is a SOLID piece of heavy gauge steel that runs the entirety of the chimney. The existing pipe is uninsulated and is a 6" diameter pipe.
I remember the daughter of the owner telling me they lowered this piece in with a crane. All of the thimbles (one for the wood stove and one for the sauna stove) are welded on to the chimney and the chimney pipe looks to be in good condition. So, that being said it seems my options are pretty slim with this new found information. The only feasible route ahead that I could see being an option is using a product like a chimney insulation mix to keep the thick gauge steel properly insulated. Otherwise I might be stuck just using the system as is after an inspection.
Update: An old timer that has been in the chimney repair and inspection business for 50+ years is going to stop by to give me an opinion. I'll post back on here when swings by.
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Whitenuckler
Minister of Fire
I would normally say you must be joking, but I know your not. Is the crane still there
? Can you do your own inspection (besides the chimney) or will you need some sort of approval? Sounds like this system could last forever. Probably a double wall liner would work better than steel pipe.For some more context... Here is the "barn" that came with the house. Note the SOLID steel chimney that is on the left side of the barn. Something very similar (although it is on the interior) exists for the house as well.
![[Hearth.com] Ranch Home Heating Question](https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/tempimagee0zfvj-webp.339875/ "[Hearth.com] Ranch Home Heating Question")
Whitenuckler
Minister of Fire
That stuff would be expensive but I guess he got it at wholesale. That will be around longer than me, but I wonder how much creosote you would get as you try to heat up 2000 lbs of steel in winter
Whitenuckler
Minister of Fire
Your saying the sauna and the wood stove are on the same flue? I'm not sure that would pass code.
Whitenuckler
Minister of Fire
That will be an interesting conversation given that the insurance companies have picky engineer underwriters..ie must be to code
Whitenuckler
Minister of Fire
Oh we have a sauna? Cool. I used to have one. Many memories.
Looks like I crossed your posting with another, my bad, sorry.
Still, there are many stoves that will provide an easy 8-10 hr. burn time that will work on a 6" flue, especially burning hardwood. The BK Princess, Regency 3500, Lopi Liberty, PE Summit, Drolet (Escape 2100, HT-3000, Myriad III, etc.), Quad 5700, are some examples.
Whitenuckler
Minister of Fire
BG, you have to go back as few post and see what the OP has for chimney(s). It is most unusual.
The wood stove for the sauna has been decommissioned, however it used to be hooked up when the previous owner lived here. The sauna was converted to electric a few years back.
The best option that I have found thus far is to drop a new liner into the existing pipe (given it's large enough to support this activity) and insulate around the existing heavy gauge steel chimney pipe. I'll get back to you all once I get a second opinion from a professional in the field.
The best option that I have found thus far is to drop a new liner into the existing pipe (given it's large enough to support this activity) and insulate around the existing heavy gauge steel chimney pipe. I'll get back to you all once I get a second opinion from a professional in the field.
Honestly I would probably cut the steel pipe with a torch at the bottom while someone pulling it away from the barn. This will alow
You to start from scratch and have a very efficient chimney. You could scrap or repurpose that pipe.
Unless that steel pipe goes deep inside the barn as well?
You to start from scratch and have a very efficient chimney. You could scrap or repurpose that pipe.
Unless that steel pipe goes deep inside the barn as well?
That’s to make sure it was straight, and deep into the ground. It really wouldn’t be hard to torch it off at ground level.
The photo posted of the barn is just for reference. The actual project I'm concerned about is the house. The barn is another story...
I think a crane would be required to remove the chimney pipe inside the house. It's likely about +2000 pounds of steel. No word back yet from my inspector.
I think a crane would be required to remove the chimney pipe inside the house. It's likely about +2000 pounds of steel. No word back yet from my inspector.
If that type of pipe is in the masonry chimney, then I’m sure you’ll need a crane
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Over built but not engineered. a mild steel pipe certainly has a different properties than a stainless liner. I would be hoping that it’s large enough to drop a liner down. I’d be shopping for 6” stoves too.
We can already say it’s not a UL listed liner. So it doesn’t meet code. It’s probably safe but no one can say for sure.
We can already say it’s not a UL listed liner. So it doesn’t meet code. It’s probably safe but no one can say for sure.
I would bet that steel pipe could be just fine. Why don't you get a camera and run it down the pipe to see what the entire inside looks like. The endoscopic cameras are cheap. just need one with good lights.
And i add my vote to 6" stove.
And i add my vote to 6" stove.
Perhaps the legal masonry chimney already has a legal clay liner and this pipe arrangement was just extra. Yes, it’s weird.
It’s probably something like well casing. Easily cut and not all that heavy. 6” schedule 40 well casing weighs 19# per foot. So a 20 foot stick only weighs 380#. The crane (some cranes are very small) would make removal easier if you want to keep the masonry chimney. A cherry picker or bucket truck often has enough capacity to pick 380#. That’s like two people or one really fat lady.
You could always rip the whole thing down and put up a metal pipe system.
It’s probably something like well casing. Easily cut and not all that heavy. 6” schedule 40 well casing weighs 19# per foot. So a 20 foot stick only weighs 380#. The crane (some cranes are very small) would make removal easier if you want to keep the masonry chimney. A cherry picker or bucket truck often has enough capacity to pick 380#. That’s like two people or one really fat lady.
You could always rip the whole thing down and put up a metal pipe system.
Whitenuckler
Minister of Fire
The garage one could be taken down from the top in pieces if it was going to scrap. Just use a 4x4 as a crane
and move it down as you go.
The house one is tougher. You would need to have it free, and jack it up to cut pieces off.
If I was 40 years younger I could do it.
Yes, it must be well casing that he got for free somehow.
Looking at the photo in the first post of this thread, it sure looks like that crock is just a welded on chunk of well casing that the builder bricked around. So this would mean you couldn't just pull it up you would have to cut off the crock which means you're ripping out some brick too.
I would plan on extracting that casing pipe and going back in with an insulated liner. Or ripping down the whole chimney and replacing with a modern class A pipe system. If you rip the chimney down from the top you would just take out a couple feet of chimney and then cut out a couple feet of the casing, repeat until you're at the bottom.
A third option is to just abandon that chimney system and put up a new class A system nearby or somewhere else. I see that a lot since it is faster and cheaper.
I would plan on extracting that casing pipe and going back in with an insulated liner. Or ripping down the whole chimney and replacing with a modern class A pipe system. If you rip the chimney down from the top you would just take out a couple feet of chimney and then cut out a couple feet of the casing, repeat until you're at the bottom.
A third option is to just abandon that chimney system and put up a new class A system nearby or somewhere else. I see that a lot since it is faster and cheaper.
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