With that many old thimbles i think it is time to seriously consider a liner as well get a sweep out to look at it and give you ideas on how to make the hookup at the bottom better. It will never be perfect but i am sure it could be allot better. But from what you have said so far there are 3 known holes in that clay liner i think you need to have it inspected properly.
rangeley t50 issues?
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firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
I am most definitely not an expert on installs . . . so take this advice with a grain of salt . . . heck, you may want to take it with the whole salt shaker.
I am wondering if Weatherguy might be on to something . . . would it be possible to come up from the stove (I forget if this stove is like some Jotuls that give you the option of a rear or top exit flue) and have the pipe rise up 3 or 4 feet at an angle (kinda like this -- / / ) and then go through the wall (with a proper pass through would be my advice) and then connect to a liner? Of course clearances would have to be watched as it might bring the flue too close to the wall. I suspect the hearth may have to be extended as well.
Personally it looks like the original problem may be a combination of bad draft and bad wood . . . right now my main concern quite honestly is the installation as I would not be copacetic with the install myself.
I am wondering if Weatherguy might be on to something . . . would it be possible to come up from the stove (I forget if this stove is like some Jotuls that give you the option of a rear or top exit flue) and have the pipe rise up 3 or 4 feet at an angle (kinda like this -- / / ) and then go through the wall (with a proper pass through would be my advice) and then connect to a liner? Of course clearances would have to be watched as it might bring the flue too close to the wall. I suspect the hearth may have to be extended as well.
Personally it looks like the original problem may be a combination of bad draft and bad wood . . . right now my main concern quite honestly is the installation as I would not be copacetic with the install myself.
We have someone coming tomorrow to take a look at things.
Its capped.
Yeah Jake, this stove can exit in both directions so i have options.
Make sure the cap is sealed tight. Any leakage is going to dilute draft.
It might be worth taking a look at and considering a complete rebuild of this area in the future. You could recoup lost dead space and move the stove back a bit out of the room area. Doing so would allow you to connect the stove properly without compromise to the higher chimney takeoff.
That would be ideal however, it will not be for some time. In the next few months we are getting geothermal put in for most of the house hence, the new stove on this side. On a side note, i have discovered something else unexplained with this house. I just installed and new ceiling fan today, same room as the stove, and i could not find a breaker for most of this side of the house. There are two breakers, one main and one sub, but none cut the power off. Only if i shut the main off did i not have power in that area. Now i'm no expert, I.T. by trade, but i don't get how this is possible. I checked for other boxes but could not find any. Anyways, here's a pic of the new fan and one of our old jotul from around 1980, thought you guys would enjoy seeing it. Thanks again guys/gals.
Not hooked up, in case anyone was worried about clearances
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I hear you. It's usually wise to live in a place for a while before making changes unless they are necessary to make the place habitable.
The little 602 is a much easier breather. It has no secondary air plumbing.
The little 602 is a much easier breather. It has no secondary air plumbing.
So "the guy" came today and things went a lot different then i imaged. Soo...he didn't think the way it was currently setup was the problem. He recommended the cleanout be sealed a little better, was not as tight as i though. We also need to rap that single walled pipe in the garage to promote better draft. So we will try all the stuff he suggested and see what happens. Its been way too warm out so it will have to wait to test.
The one BIG issue he saw was the thimble behind that wall. He said that should be bricked off as if there was a chimney fire it would be a real hazard. I'm a little blown away as i though i would have to do a lot more/there was a lot more wrong. I'm still kinda at a loss.....
The one BIG issue he saw was the thimble behind that wall. He said that should be bricked off as if there was a chimney fire it would be a real hazard. I'm a little blown away as i though i would have to do a lot more/there was a lot more wrong. I'm still kinda at a loss.....
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Yes, that is why I asked about the clean out. Any air leakage is going to weaken draft. Same for the seal on that capped take off. You can make a gasket for the clean out by using a good silicone sealant like GE Silicone II. Run a generous bead around the door rim then close it. Let it set up for the recommended time.
If the horiz. run is dead level, it is not helping. 4 ft is a long run. I would raise the elbow entry point by 4" ( 2 bricks) and brick up the gap below. Insulating the elbow with the proper insulation is not a bad idea. Then the main issue will be to get that chimney hot enough to draw well. Once it does, the stove performance should improve as long as fully seasoned wood is being burned.
If the horiz. run is dead level, it is not helping. 4 ft is a long run. I would raise the elbow entry point by 4" ( 2 bricks) and brick up the gap below. Insulating the elbow with the proper insulation is not a bad idea. Then the main issue will be to get that chimney hot enough to draw well. Once it does, the stove performance should improve as long as fully seasoned wood is being burned.
So just an update here. We have decided to get a chimney liner installed to help with the issues that have come up. First and foremost, this will make things a lot safer. The guy that came the other day said the unused thimbles should be bricked off, at the moment it does not meet code. Second as suggested by Grisu, it may help with the draft issue.
I have a question. When they put in the liner, will then need to make a hole in the chimney to put in the thimble and the piece that terminates the liner? Or will they put it through what’s there now? Thanks again!
I have a question. When they put in the liner, will then need to make a hole in the chimney to put in the thimble and the piece that terminates the liner? Or will they put it through what’s there now? Thanks again!
While a liner is a good idea, it's not going to address the core issue here. That is the awkward offset between the stove location and the chimney centerline.
I know. I was thinking that if they need to "modify" the chimney for the liner then, they could move the hole up and get a better angle from the stove. From what a gather that's the issue, the lack of a slope and going to one type of pipe to another. I mean whats the difference with this below and what i have besides that is vertical?
In the picture, the flue is inline with the thimble which goes directly into the chimney. Your chimney is offset. The old capped location looks just about right but it appears that this now is aligned with the tangent wall making clearances not work. That is why I suggested just raising up the hole about 4" to introduce slope to the pipe.
If the tile is already 6" x 6" ID a liner is not going to help draft a whole lot, but it will make it safer. Did he say if they were going to insulate the liner?
If the tile is already 6" x 6" ID a liner is not going to help draft a whole lot, but it will make it safer. Did he say if they were going to insulate the liner?
We requested an insulated liner, yes. He sill needs to come by and check things out so, i'm not sure how this will go yet.
Thats why i was wondering what they had to do to get the liner in. I was hoping they could move the hole up at the same time. Thanks for your help begreen!
Thats why i was wondering what they had to do to get the liner in. I was hoping they could move the hole up at the same time. Thanks for your help begreen!
Yeah the hole can be put where ever it needs to be just means cutting the hole and patching the old ones
Batman
Member
That burn looks great. If I look over the top of the laptop screen I'm typing on at this moment, I can see an identical burn in my F-50. It's like i have double vision!
Well, its about 40F out but that's about what it has been when trying to run the stove. The thing that made the most difference was just spending time with the stove....lol i know right. Anyways, i just learned about what it likes and when to do different things. The only things that are different from when i started is, I bought a skid of BioBricks and that helps get the fire going good plus i'm able to use some of my sub-par wood. I also sealed up the cleanout better but, that's really it. I still am going to get a piece of ceramic blanket for the short run of pipe in the garage as, it can only help. I'm pretty happy where things are at but, i still need to get the two other thimbles closed off properly. I just want to say i'm grateful for everyone's help here.
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