Ravelli Francesca error code help please

Manly Posted By Manly, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:24 AM

  1. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
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    I received a "drought insufficient" #13 alarm error code a couple of days ago. I have been cleaning the stove frequently, but apparently not deep enough. All the documentation I have on ravelli stoves does not specifically address this alarm error code. I would be grateful for any details regarding this particular alarm and cause. Jim
     
  2. Pelleting In NJ

    Pelleting In NJ
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    Sep 26, 2011
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    Central NJ
    Is your Francesca the newer RDS model?
     
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  3. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
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    I purchased the stove new a few years ago but just installed last year. I am guessing the dealer had it a while as it was an older model close out. Documentation is sparse. It is not remote controllable and I don't think it has the RDS. It does have the multitude of adjustments and I do see there is a drought (draft) adjustment I recall making during the initial setup. I will try increasing the % of draft. My concern was that I have not had a problem up to this point this season. The stove and pipes were cleaned before this season and we have only burned about 2/3 ton thus far. I found it odd that the alarm is specific with a number assignment yet I cannot find a reference to this code in any literature. Lost in translation I suppose.
     
  4. Pelleting In NJ

    Pelleting In NJ
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    Sep 26, 2011
    475
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    Loc:
    Central NJ
    Does your control panel have 3 buttons or 7?
     
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  5. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
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    7 control buttons
     
  6. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
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    Increasing the draught setting made no difference. The stove goes into alarm shortly after the full startup cycle. The flame, burn pot and everything looks great, same as it always has. I suspect a sensor or alike is malfunctioning. Time to disconnect and open her up. Thankfully it's not frigid like last week.
     
  7. Pelleting In NJ

    Pelleting In NJ
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    Sep 26, 2011
    475
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    Loc:
    Central NJ
    From what I know, 7 button is the older non-RDS model.....and my technical manual for non-RDS stoves does not have an error code #13...odd......because in the RDS Manual there is an Alarm Code #13 : "Insufficient Draft Alarm" which can be caused by an open firebox door (or a bad door gasket), or a clogged burn pot, or clogged exhaust passages (in the stove) or restricted flue.

    Sounds like you have an RDS stove, despite the type of control panel you have, and the internal stove exhaust passages, or your flue, needs a good cleaning. Do you have an outside air connected? If so, also check that for any obstruction.

    Another possibility is that your airflow sensor (located in the outside air intake pipe) needs cleaning, or is on its way out....

    Can you post a picture of your control/LCD panel?
     
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  8. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
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    Anyone have any detailed information on the logic sequence for the start and run cycle for the ravelli Francesca. I get a draught insufficient alarm after the stove goes through the complete start cycle and appears to be running great. The alarm comes in at the exact same time on each run. It did initially start alarming intermittently but quickly got to this point. I completely cleaned the stove, ports and pipes even though it eas pretty clean. Checked the vacuum switch and it seems fine, as well as the tube. I would think if the vacuum switch wasn't sensing flow I would never get to a full run cycle. Door gaskets look fine. I am at a lose. This stove has been performing nicely up to this onset. Thanks for any suggestions or input.
     
  9. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
    309
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    Pic attached I think. I have cleaned everything. Did determine the stove is shutting down due to the vacuum switch contact not opening. When I removed the switch it seems to operate properly with very minimal suction needed to operate the switch. I was surprised the unit would cycle all the way to a full run without the switch opening. If the switch is disconnected electrically it will not feed. Needs a closure to start and an open circuit to maintain a run. I guess I am going to have to remove the pipe and adapter to see why I am not getting suction through the tube. I can blow through it easily but that only verifies the plastic tube. I am leaning towards exhaust passages at this point. My schematic does not show air flow sensor, only the vacuum, smoke and temp sensors. image.jpg
     
  10. Manly

    Manly
    Feeling the Heat 2.
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    Aug 8, 2017
    309
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    CT
    At a loss here. Disassembled the stove for a deep cleaning. Removed the exhaust fan, opened the clean out ports upper and lower. Vacuumed everything out although I was surprised how little soot was actually inside. This stove has had about 1 ton through it since new. The flue pipe and cap are clear and clean. The vacuum tube seems unobstructed but the vacuum switch doesn't activate. When I removed the switch it will transfer the contacts with the minimalist amount of suction. The electrical contacts do switch open as verified by meter. When I jumper the vacuum switch wires to run the stove and the tube attached to the switch, the switch never transfers as verified by meter. This still seems to be a lack of vacuum (draft) issue but I can't quite see how. I hate to buy a new switch if not needed. Any suggestions appreciated.
     
  11. Pelleting In NJ

    Pelleting In NJ
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    Sep 26, 2011
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    Loc:
    Central NJ
    Did you try cleaning out the metal nipple (on the exhaust fan housing) where the vacuum tube connects to? Did you clean out the inside of the exhaust fan housing (remove the fan motor by removing the 5 or 6 philips head screws around the smaller metal motor mounting plate).
     
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  12. Monica in France

    Monica in France
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    Jan 22, 2014
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    If my Ravelli Stove had RDS , I'm pretty sure I would have got a similar message recently.
    It was clogging up every 24 hours , this was after a 'deep' clean. But obviously not 'deep' enough.
    Your stove looks very similar to mine , and I wonder if it has the same weak spot somewhere up in the heat exchanger at the top.
    It was only after the umpteenth clean around those tubes that it suddenly started to function correctly- as you can't see what you are doing - I have no idea what I finally did to remove the blockage.

    If you are sure that every thing is clean , I would suggest you follow " Pelleting in NJ" s suggestion and look at the M.A.F sensor
    There was an interesting thread on the subject last November (? +/-) .
    They need cleaning as well apparently. A fact which is far from obvious.

    Has anyone found the ideal tool for cleaning around those heat exchanger tubes ?
     
  13. Manly

    Manly
    Feeling the Heat 2.
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    Aug 8, 2017
    309
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    Loc:
    CT
    I did clean the nipple with a pipe cleaner. Today I removed and brushed all the exhaust pipes, cleaned the internal exhaust again as well as blew it out with a leaf blower. Exhaust fan motor was removed yesterday and cleaned. My unit has wing nutted screws around the perimeter to remove the entire plate. After all this the vacuum switch still would not switch. I purchased a new switch, hooked it up to the tube for testing, and it did transfer the contacts once the fan ran a short bit. I put the entire unit back together, checked my settings and fired her up. Shortly there after I got a depress alarm #8. I am guessing this came as the vacuum switch opened. I know it's not a blocked flu, the vacuum switch is new, and I am waiting for the unit to finish final cleaning to check the door switch, which I highly doubt. This is starting to become a pain. I wish I could get a hold of a wiring and logic diagram that actually shows the sequence of operations, permissive, etc. I purchased the vacuum switch from the very unrepeatable dealer where I purchased the stove, and all their service people would do is agree with me that they supplied lousy documentation. They said the problem could be almost anything. I would trash the stove before I threw away money on their incompetence. But that is a different issue. I did find out the stove was build in 2012. I purchased it new at the end of 2014. The dealer said it is definitely not RDS, but when i power up the stove the screen says ECO RDS. There is nothing consisten on the stove. Thanks for all the input from the board users here and I will keep on plugging away.
     
  14. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
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    The door limit switch seems fine. It operates properly and if I leave the door open the auger will not start, so I'm guessing it is ok. One thing that baffles me is wiring on the vacuum switch. The circuit is wired through a normally closed contact, or so I believe it was when I removed it. This completes the circuit and allows the unit to go through the start cycle. As soon as the vacuum pressure is met, the contact opens, and this is when I am getting the depress alarm #8. Again with the limited diagram I have I don't see any other devices in this circuit to chase after.
     
  15. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
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    Where is the M.A.F sensor located? My diagram doesn't identify it. Thanks
     
  16. Ssyko

    Ssyko
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    Nov 6, 2017
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    Just out of curiosity, does your vac switch have 2 nipples? If its a dual nipple 1 side is used for pressure the second side is used for vacuum. I dont know the stove well at all but if the hose is on the wrong side it wont trigger the auger. And normally a vac switch is open. After stove starts and combustion blower starts it creates the vacuum in the chamber wich closes the circuit for the auger. The start up program controls the stove till all the components have met their respective requirements. Then the stove goes into user mode where you can control voltages and feed rates.
     
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  17. rich2500

    rich2500
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    Nov 19, 2005
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    It,s located on the intake air inlet several inches in from the end that you would hook up the metal pipe to go outside
     
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  18. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
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    I do have a dual function vac switch. It is connected to the vacuum side and I have verified it is functioning at this time. The contact sequence you describe makes more sense to me than using the closed contact I am presently connected to. I thought that was how the old switch was connected but I may be mistaken. It's too late tonight but tomorrow evening l will swap onto the open contact and give it a try. I was thinking this was going to be my next move anyway. Than thank you for your support.
     
  19. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
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    Unfortunately I'm still in the same situation. The vacuum switch contacts definitely use the NC contact which opens when the blower starts. Using the NO contact the auger never starts. I also checked the old switch and the NO terminal never had a spade pushed on it. Shiny and flawless like a mirror. I did verify the new switch operation with a meter and it works perfectly, where the old switch definitely did not work. Still get no depress alarm once the unit goes through a full startup cycle. I am going to double check all my terminal connections. Besides the 2 safety switches, the only other permissive devices I see are the hopper temp sensor and the sensor in the air intake pipe. Does anyone know what type of devices these are, i.e., RTDs, thermocouple, etc. I would like to start jumping things out to see if I can maintain a run before I start changing out parts. It is difficult without a real schematic. The picture line diagram they supply doesn't even show all the components or describe sequence of operation. Again thanks for any input or suggestions.
     
  20. Monica in France

    Monica in France
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    Jan 22, 2014
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    I looked at the Ravelli RDS manual that I had downloaded many moons ago. Found on a canadian web site if I remember correctly.
    Your error n°13 is ( as stated by "pelleting in NJ" ) a draft problem.
    Not enough air going past the MAF.
    A depression problem would give you error N° 8.
    If you can't find this manual on-line , I can send it too you.
    I probably googled "ravelli RDS manual".

    Re-reading the other thread I referenced in another posting (Ravelli RV80 - Problem: Air Flow Meter), he had error N° 9 for a sensor problem.
    There was a thread "RV100 Ravelli alarm 17 No Flow alarm" earlier this year. Error N° 17 is not mentioned in the RDS manual I have.

    Imagine the air entry passage behind the burnpot is blocked. What would signal the problem first ? the MAF or the depression ?
    This does not explain why the stove ignites correctly. If this passage was blocked it would not ( experience talking).
    So please , keep posting , I for one would like to know what the problem is.
     
  21. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
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    CT
    My original alarm was the #13. Replacing the vacuum switch, which was definitely not working, has eliminated the #13. I now get a #8 depression alarm after the stove goes through a normal startup cycle. I am going to remove and clean the MAF sensor next. I have completely cleaned and blew out the stove from air intake all the through including cleaning the entire flue pipe. I am thinking the MAF sensor could be dirty from the cleaning process. I do have various versions of Ravelli manuals that I have found on the web. They all seem to contain bits of information that relate to my stove, but I have not found one manual that addresses my stove and its individual components. I haven't found a diagram that shows the MAF. According to dealer I purchased the stove from, the unit was manufactured in 2012 and is not a RDS system. When I power up the stove the LCD screen starts with "ECO RDS" 2009, then comes up with something like rev 2015. I have not seen a diagram or picture that shows the exact control panel layout I have. It seems like Ravelli sort of blended their technologies from one year to the next with no manual as built for each revision. Anyway I appreciate yours and others input and I will keep plugging away until I find a resolution. I purchased the stove new but didn't pay a whole lot for it. I wouldn't have the dealer come out to look at it because they will charge at least 30% of what I paid them for the stove. They are just that type of dealership. The auger motor failed after about a 1/2 ton of pellet burning. Its been running well up to this latest failure, about 1 ton of pellets. I clean the burn pot and vacuum the inside between each ignition. When I did my deep cleaning this week the stove was not very dirty inside or the flue pipe.
     
  22. Monica in France

    Monica in France
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    Jan 22, 2014
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    I've been looking at that manual again. ( for installers in 2012 , updating the original RDS system with V3 of the firmware)
    The firmware should be initialized by the dealer when he installs the stove !
    I assume yours did not - as he thinks the stove is not RDS - so you are presumably running with non optimised parameters.
    Will this make any difference ? Certainly not at the moment !

    But I was concentrating on the error messages . Why do you get the depression alarm after it has gone into "work" mode ?

    With a faulty vacuum switch the stove should have refuse to ignite. It certainly stopped the auger moter as they are wired in series ,
    so where did the pellets come from ?

    But now you are sure it works , with a pressure difference , but it only has that pressure difference during the ignition period.
    After that it cuts out.
    This must mean that the pressure difference is only generated during the start up - when the fan is going full blast.
    As soon as it goes into work mode and the fan slows down, it does not create the necessary pressure difference.
    This means something is preventing the air flow.

    This logic can be put to the test : just short circuit the vacuum switch and see if you still get an alarm after entering work mode .
    There should be no alarm n° 8 and the flame should be extremely lazy.

    Another easy test would be to pump compressed air into the air intake and see if the vacuum switch cuts in - or not.
     
  23. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
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    I had previously jumpered the vacuum switch and the stove would start and run for 10 minutes or so then go into a #13 alarm, draught insufficient. This was my initial alarm which led me to change the vacuum switch. I have the air tube on the vacuum, or suction side of the switch, and the wires on the normally closed contacts. I believe this is how the original pressure switch was connected. I do get suction and this new switch does transfer contacts when I put a meter on it. I guess it is possible the pressure switch drops out after the ignition phase. I can't see how I would have air flow restriction since I cleaned all the internals, exhaust fan and chamber, flue pipes and blew it out.
     
  24. Ssyko

    Ssyko
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    Nov 6, 2017
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    Manly is the stove a positive pressure fire chamber or is it a vacuum? Conbustion blower sucks air through or blows into the fire chamber? Im just trying to understand your stove
     
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  25. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
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    To the best of my knowledge the blower pulls air through the combustion chamber. The air intake pipe opens into the combustion chamber below the burn pot. The heated air and smoke gets pulled up and around the heat exchanger tubes and out the exhaust.
     

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