RE: All wheel drive question

[firefighterjake]

Doing some research on a vehicle purchase for my wife's car. Currently she has a 2003 Subaru Legacy Outback sedan with 124,000 miles that I will be inheriting (and the 2003 Honda Accord with 191,600+ miles will be sold).

I think we've narrowed the prospective list down to a few contenders: Subaru Outback, Subaru Crosstrek, Mazda CX-5 and Nissan Rogue. No test drives yet. I personally suspect she is leaning towards the Subarus.

Question 1: Subaru says their all wheel drive system is superior. Anyone have real life experience to back them up or refute? Would the Mazda or Nissan AWD system be worse in snow/rain?

Question 2: Anyone have any personal experience with the cars in our list?

 

[heat seeker]

No personal experience with any on your list, but in general: look for limited slip differential(s), traction control that applies the brake on a slipping wheel, how the 4 wheel is engaged. (Manual or automatic engagement.) I doubt a locking diff is available on these models.

 

[bsruther]

My wife has a 2012 Outback. We haven't driven anything newer to compare it to, but I can say that it handles good and does well at cornering, seems to really grip the road The wife says that it handles well in the snow.

If we had it to do over again we probably would have bought a Hyundai and maybe not had to pay $1000 for a broken sunroof at 38,000 miles among other things.

 

[Ashful]

With some of the vehicles on your list, you should give serious consideration to a Volvo V50 AWD. Can be had in standard fare or the T5 R-Design, with a 2.5L turbo that runs about as fast as a ***** date. We've owned one a few years now, and have been very happy with it.

 

[Michael Golden]

Wife got a 2014 suburu outback before last winter. I have to say I wasn't pumped about the wagon, but she insisted. After driving it last winter they don't lie about there all wheel drive system being great. We have a driveway where you can enter by coming up the road and making a wide steep turn or come down the road and have a running start. Well, we got a couple decent snows and I insisted on trying out the all wheel drive by making the up hill turn into the drive and that dang thing never thought about getting stuck with the stock tires, it did spin but never once thought I was stuck. I tried that with my work truck a gmc 1500 and it didn't have a chance. My in laws have an all time 4x4 jeep and it couldn't make the turn coming up the hill. Also wanted to mention that driving on the interstate in sloppy and slick roads it handle great. All in all the wife was right and I think there will always be a suburu in the stable.

 

[BrotherBart]

Anyone have any personal experience with the cars in our list?

Drove my neighbor's Subaru Outback to the grocery store today. It was dry and sunny out but it didn't break or get stuck or anything.

 

[Mt Bob]

Get the outback.Subby has been building active awd longer than anyone,audi system better,but their cars are not worth the price.Subby will ride better and cause less problems than other ones.

 

[jharkin]

Subarus AWD system is VERY good. Ive been on long drives in the snow with my buddy in his 04 WRX and that thing is unstoppable, especially with snow tires. And it had open front (and possiblycenter) diff. Modern ones will all have brake based traction control simulating having a full set of limited slips.

When Subaru says its better than other systems they do have somewhat of a point, as their system is a true full time AWD system with a center diff that splits power 50/50 front to rear (like Audi quattro). Some other AWD systems today are only pseudo-AWD, one prime example is the Honda "4 wheel drive" in our Pilot. In that system the engine is mounted transverse like a FWD and it even has a regular FWD transaxle. To make it 4 or all wheel what they do is add a transfer case to the FWD trans that sends power to the rear. In the rear rather than a diff it has a pair of electronic clutch packs that can lock to varying degrees sending a limited amount of torque to the rear wheels.

This Honda system is limited in that even at full "lock" its never completely solid, and at speeds above 20mph it disconnects altogether leaving you in FWD. In practice its a good aid to help get you going on a snowy hill, but its useless offroad compared to a true 4WD in that if one of the rear tires is on ice or completely off the ground the clutches cant lock up hard enough to spin the side with grip.

Whats even more interesting is that Honda calls their pseudo system a 4WD (which I gues it is in the sense its part time only?) and puts it in the Ridgeline truck that tries to market against other pickups with real transfer case 4WD like the Frontier, Tacoma, etc.

 

[Grisu]

We are driving a 98 Outback for about 9 years by now although it will soon be time to part ways. The Outback has been a good car in the winter although I have very little to compare it to. Nevertheless, never got stuck, handled well on mountain roads, and has been very reliable. My only gripes are the not so great fuel economy and the engine can be sluggish on steep grades or the interstate.

My wife got a new Impreza hatchback last year and she really likes it. I am also driving it occasionally and it is nothing fancy but does its job. Handling in the snow is really good and the fuel economy is quite a bit better than the old Outback. Cargo space is surprisingly good for a small car; we managed to load a whole Costco shopping trip in the trunk a few times. Unless your wife is carrying around loads of stuff regularly I would take it into consideration. Its about 5K less than the outback and gets slightly better mileage.

 

[ewdudley]

Subaru handling is just fine. Easy, predictable, plenty of under-steer, tracks nicely even if you let-off sliding-in hot. Not in the same league with my thirty year old Audi, but probably neither your wife nor mine can tell the difference let alone take advantage of it.

In my experience what Subaru lacks is a front cowling system that is compatible with driving in real-world snow and/or slush. The whole assembly is made of 'space-age materials' that are no more substantial than a Clorox bottle. A buddy of mine just got back from a weekend in Vermont and reports that I shouldn't feel unlucky: 70% of the Subarus he saw were missing some piece of plastic or another from the lower-right.

 

[firefighterjake]

Subarus AWD system is VERY good. Ive been on long drives in the snow with my buddy in his 04 WRX and that thing is unstoppable, especially with snow tires. And it had open front (and possiblycenter) diff. Modern ones will all have brake based traction control simulating having a full set of limited slips.

When Subaru says its better than other systems they do have somewhat of a point, as their system is a true full time AWD system with a center diff that splits power 50/50 front to rear (like Audi quattro). Some other AWD systems today are only pseudo-AWD, one prime example is the Honda "4 wheel drive" in our Pilot. In that system the engine is mounted transverse like a FWD and it even has a regular FWD transaxle. To make it 4 or all wheel what they do is add a transfer case to the FWD trans that sends power to the rear. In the rear rather than a diff it has a pair of electronic clutch packs that can lock to varying degrees sending a limited amount of torque to the rear wheels.

This Honda system is limited in that even at full "lock" its never completely solid, and at speeds above 20mph it disconnects altogether leaving you in FWD. In practice its a good aid to help get you going on a snowy hill, but its useless offroad compared to a true 4WD in that if one of the rear tires is on ice or completely off the ground the clutches cant lock up hard enough to spin the side with grip.

Whats even more interesting is that Honda calls their pseudo system a 4WD (which I gues it is in the sense its part time only?) and puts it in the Ridgeline truck that tries to market against other pickups with real transfer case 4WD like the Frontier, Tacoma, etc.

Do you notice any issues in the snow or bad weather with the Honda . . . I mean to say . . . does the AWD still work well or is it not really all that useful?

 

[scjotulman]

I need to make the same decision. Planning on a new car in November or December. I have always driven Volkswagon diesels. My wife likes the Subarus, she drives a Forester now. I am thinking about the the Outback I like the all wheel drive and ground clearance. If Subaru made a US diesel Outback it would be a no brainer. We don't get much snow in SC but when we do the Forester does great.

 

[Ashful]

The whole assembly is made of 'space-age materials' that are no more substantial than a Clorox bottle.

..as in, from the early 1970's?

 

[jharkin]

Do you notice any issues in the snow or bad weather with the Honda . . . I mean to say . . . does the AWD still work well or is it not really all that useful?

It drives just fine on plowed but slippery roads - never had the need to take it out befomre the plows. The Honda system is more than enough to get you started from a stop on slick conditions... then its up to your tires whether you are going to stop again safely

Where the Subaru shines... is it could keep going in 4-6 inches of unplowed powder.

 

[Corey]

My .02 - Tires will make a world of difference. Even the 'best' AWD is going to skid into the ditch on crappy tires, and even a mediocre AWD is going to handle like a snowcat on good tires. I would probably buy the car based on features, price and other factors you want, then get a good set of tires to top it off.

 

[Jags]

Where the Subaru shines... is it could keep going in 4-6 inches of unplowed powder.

Hmmm...not trying to be a smarty pants (really)... but if my vehicles couldn't push through 6" of snow pretty easily, I would be getting a different vehicle.

 

[Utilitrack]

My Ford Edge has been a great car since 2010, 100K miles to date with nothing but regular maintenance and tires. The vehicle with the Mastercraft Courser tires is a tank in good old fashioned Maine winters and nor'easters!

 

[Ashful]

Hmmm...not trying to be a smarty pants (really)... but if my vehicles couldn't push through 6" of snow pretty easily, I would be getting a different vehicle.

We had a fun trip home from an ER visit with an infant in 2010, late on a Sunday night when the snow was coming so hard and fast that the plow truck drivers were pulled off the road from 10pm - 5am, so they could rest up and get ready for the next day's rush. I was in my Dodge 1500 Ram 4x4, and my wife following in her Volvo V50 AWD. I think the snow on the roads was 6" everywhere, with drifts to 18" in the intersections. There were a few big hill climbs (my house was only a few miles but 400 feet elevation up, from the hospital), and the snow in a few of the intersections was deeper than her headlights, but that Volvo just plowed thru. She didn't get stuck until she hit the hard pack left by the plow trucks, at the end of my driveway, and the car got hung up on the belly with all four wheels off the ground.

I haven't driven a Subaru AWD since the 1990's, but I'm definitely sold on Volvo's AWD. This is the fourth AWD vehicle we've owned (Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, Jaguar X-Type, Audi Quattro, Volvo V50), and I think the Volvo is at least on par with the Audi. I hated driving the Jeep and Jag.

 

[Jags]

I hated driving the Jeep and Jag.

Not all grand cherokees are created equal. There are at least 3 different drive configurations that I know of.

 

[jharkin]

And now not all Subarus are equal either. The newest Legacy I heard now has some sort of lesser... not completely full time 50/50 torque AWD system to get to 30+ mpg EPA ratings. The outbacks should still be the traditional setup.


To jags point.. I have no idea if my pilot could drive up a hil in 6 inches of snow... It might actually do fine? I just never have had reason to test it on unplowed roads. I have been in rides in a subaru down unploughed dirt fire roads through a half a foot or more and it just keeps going.

 

[Ashful]

Not all grand cherokees are created equal. There are at least 3 different drive configurations that I know of.

Definitely, and neither are their suspensions. My primary hatred of that Cherokee has much more to do with dangerously soft suspension for it's tall ride height and narrow wheel base, than the drive configuration. I do remember liking the transfer case selector on that car though, with what seemed like almost a dozen selections (RWD high, 4wd high, AWD high, 4wd low, AWD low, etc.. In fact, I seem to recall there may have even been FWD selections on that transfer case, but that was 5 cars ago... a distant memory.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

I have a 2009 Subaru forester with 49000 miles for sale. 4 snows on car and a set of new all seasons go with it.

 

[scjotulman]

A few years ago we got 6 to 7 inches of snow in South Carolina we got out in my wife's Forester before the snow got packed down (we don't have snow plows here) well we have only 1 snow plow here but it's in the Ripley's Believe it or Not Museum. We went up some steep hills and even stopped halfway up then started back up them. No problems at all. I was impressed.

 

[firefighterjake]

So any folks have experience with Mazda's CX-5 or Nissan's Rogue? Personally I suspect my wife is leaning more towards the Subaru Crosstrek at this point simply because she has had a good experience with her Outback Legacy.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

I bought they forester for my girl so that she would have AWD for our hills very steep and unmaintained at the times of travel. It had new all seasons and it was and is awful for stopping. The ABS just locks up and will slide out of control. Most I know with subarus are pulling out the abs fuse so they can run all seasons. I chose to put 4 winter tires on it. much safer! still My girl would rather drive the VW GTI with studded snows as it is better in the bad weather and snow. So the forester is for sale with low miles.