RE: Suggestion for sharpening chain

[charly]

xclimber brings up an excellent point. Your cutters can be sharp but if they are different lengths, your chain won't cut.

Most people are better filing one way than the other so over time, the cutters on that side will all be shorter so you are only cutting with half a chain.

Wendell, your right. I always forget what side gets filed more whether your right handed or left. If I see that happening looking at the laser marks in the field, I 'll just hit the longer side with three more strokes. It's interesting after filing four or more times to check the cutter lengths just to see have even you kept them by hand. I was a Harley tech for 10 years so the dial caliper idea came from that, and boy it worked sweet. I've even measured brand new Oregon chain out of the box and found the cutters to vary about .010 form one to another. I try to keep mine under .005 to 0. I've always showed anyone who wanted to do this by me. I hate to see someone having a hard time trying to sharpen a chain. I like the Stihl chain, as I think it holds an edge better than the Oregon chain I used years ago.

 

[smokinj]

So here's the deal . . . for the life of me I cannot hand file my chain . . . yeah, yeah . . . I know, practice makes perfect . . . but I've been practicing for years and listening and following the advice of my brother and others who can sharpen a saw with a handfile in minutes and it's almost as sharp as the day it came out of the box. Some folks like me are complete idiots and cannot get the hang of this . . .

I've tried the Grandberg File N' Joint . . . and could get one "side" nice and sharp . . . but for the life of me when I flip the device over to do the second side it just glides over the chain . . . plus I find this device is a bit bulky.

So I'm considering other alternatives . . . and was wondering specifically if a guy like me (i.e. a complete mechanical idiot) would find a grinder easier to use . . . or should I just bite the bullet and keep taking my chains to the shop . . . and please . . . no comments about just practicing and getting someone to show me how to file . . . I think it's a lost cause.

I'm a fairly proficient hand filer but a nice grinder is on my "sh_t to buy" list. So in principle there's no shame in grinding. However, like filing grinding is a skill that has to be learned. It's easy to smoke a chain on a grinder.

Under 5 min's anyone can get the hang of the grinding it self. Angels and rakers comes with time. The whole thing I hear a lot is someone blue my chain! Been doing it a long time now never seen on come in yet that has been over heated. Sure it can be done but it would have to be a very rare idoit! ;-)

 

[ScotO]

Dremel tool with Oregon sharpening stones......thats all I use and my chains are razor sharp.....every so often you need to bump the rakers with a flat file, make sure you hold the angle right on the grinder when doing the chisels.....once you get the hang of it you will be amazed at how fast your chain cuts.....it actually makes cutting wood fun again!....lol.....but always be careful not to take too much off the rakers

 

[charly]

Never leave your rakers flat after filing, take the raker file and give the leading edge a stroke or two to round it off again, getting rid of the point on the front. Makes for a smooth cutting chain.

 

[ScotO]

Never leave your rakers flat after filing, take the raker file and give the leading edge a stroke or two to round it off again, getting rid of the point on the front. Makes for a smooth cutting chain.

exactly.....I didn't want to convey to make them flat, you want them to be rounded in the front......I was just sayin to use a flat (not round) file.....thanks for clarifying that....

 

[charly]

Never leave your rakers flat after filing, take the raker file and give the leading edge a stroke or two to round it off again, getting rid of the point on the front. Makes for a smooth cutting chain.

exactly.....I didn't want to convey to make them flat, you want them to be rounded in the front......I was just sayin to use a flat (not round) file.....thanks for clarifying that....

No thank you needed. Just here to help new filers build their confidence to stick with it and see that they can learn to do it.

 

[Freeheat]

I saw this on another forum, and there has been a lot of back and forth discussion about it:

www.timberlinesharpener.com

Maybe its an option for you? (I have no affiliation with the guy making these, other than just thinking its one of those toys on my list for Christmas)

It looks cool If it works

 

[Skier76]

When I bought my saw, the Stihl sales guy set me up with a file that had the guide; similar to what flatbedford posted a pic of. I found that's fine for touching up the chain, but you miss a good portion of the cutter. My neighbors friend came down from Maine, ditched the guide, and filed my chain for me. Holy crap! My little MS250 was pulling through wood like no one's business. I'm filing without a guide and still getting the hang of it. It's part knowing what you're doing and part feel.

 

[charly]

When I bought my saw, the Stihl sales guy set me up with a file that had the guide; similar to what flatbedford posted a pic of. I found that's fine for touching up the chain, but you miss a good portion of the cutter. My neighbors friend came down from Maine, ditched the guide, and filed my chain for me. Holy crap! My little MS250 was pulling through wood like no one's business. I'm filing without a guide and still getting the hang of it. It's part knowing what you're doing and part feel.

Your absolutely right. One just needs to keep filing and as you said , you learn to understand the cutter and what needs to be done, then you just need to bring your file with you and your always good to go. That keeps things very simple, and your chain is always sharpened in a few minutes, no gadgets to haul along. I guess you just earn the simplicity of it all, putting in your time. It's fun to look back at how hard you thought it was in the beginning.

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

I dont get it. I got the hang of it real quick. Just sharpen before it needs it is my motto.

Some have the issue of not being able to get a constant stroke. Kinda like swing 16d's all day long. Even with a good eye and a constant 30 degree stroke after some use its still good to machine it. That always tells the story on how good someone is or isnt! :cheese:

On the other hand a new chain always feels good. there has to be something for that.

Yup, $25...each.

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

Go to harbor freight and buy a cheap dial caliper. Then put a paint dot on any one cutter. Now measure the cutter length at the top , from the cutting edge [point] to the back of the cutter. Now zero the face of the dialer caliper so the needle is on zero. Continue to measure each cutter until you reach the one with the paint dot again. As you find a cutter that is shorter in length, turn the face of the dial caliper so the needle is on zero again. By the time you get around you'll know what the shortest cutter length is. Now again turn the face until the dial is reading .005 or .010 above the zero. That's how much you'll be filing off to make sure all the cutters are even. I do this only when I think the cutters are getting off , from left to right. If you don't have the cutters pretty close, you'll be screwed with anything else you try to do, including taking the rakers down. Everything will still be off. Sounds complicated but it's really easy and fast, and makes for a perfect cutting chain. If you hit rocks or steel, make sure you file the very tip first with a few strokes as that will have a very hard distorted piece on the tip , that will make it hard to get the file to bite the full length of the cutter. File one way, level, hold up on the file, and keep the file parallel with the laser mark on the top of the cutter plate. You must know the shortest cutter length to sharpen the chain correctly. Hope this helps you at least understand a little more of what your shooting for. Even using a grinder, you'll need to know the shortest cutter, and grind one cutter to the shortest cleaned up cutter length, then you won't be taking off more metal then needed. Otherwise you'll grind through chains quick. I will get 30 cords of cutting, easily out of one chain, filing by hand. My neighbor would go through 4 chains to my one, because he used a grinder, not finding the least amount of metal that had to be removed first, actually wasting the cutters away.

I like this a lot! I wonder whether you could post a Youtube video for us chain sharpening newbies, showing the process you use? Some folks learn okay by reading. I'm one of those guys. Other folks do better with some visuals. I know that once a person gets the hang of and the habit of doing this, it's gotta be easy. But for the person who is struggling to hold the file correctly, there is a lot of information to absorb, process, and utilize. Not mention, this all requires patience and no distractions, especially for the newbie.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[oldspark]

Thank you Smokin, Master and Jags . . . sounds like once you have the thing set up correctly it's pretty much idiot proof.

For the record I was thinking of getting one from Northern Tool.

I just ordered the 130 dollar one from them (have not received it yet) Jay likes this one for a copy cat so maybe we can learn together.

 

[Kenster]

Love those Stihl "how to" videos. I like to watch them for refresher courses occasionally. I hand sharpen in the field pretty much with every other fill up. That's the time that I need to refill the oil, too. Good time for a little break. I've gotten pretty decent with hand filing using the Stihl guide. I do need to buy some replacement files, though.
I don't want to have to come home to put the saw on a work bench to sharpen it. I use the tailgate of my truck. After a couple dozen hand sharpenings I'll take the chains into my local Stihl shop and let the pros bring 'em back to life.

 

[Danno77]

I'm probably a better hand filer than I am with this super cheap bench grinder, but I sure do love being able to swap it chains and go when I'm out in the "field"

That one from NorthernTool is on my list...

 

[flyingcow]

So here's the deal . . . for the life of me I cannot hand file my chain . . . yeah, yeah . . . I know, practice makes perfect . . . but I've been practicing for years and listening and following the advice of my brother and others who can sharpen a saw with a handfile in minutes and it's almost as sharp as the day it came out of the box. Some folks like me are complete idiots and cannot get the hang of this . . .

I've tried the Grandberg File N' Joint . . . and could get one "side" nice and sharp . . . but for the life of me when I flip the device over to do the second side it just glides over the chain . . . plus I find this device is a bit bulky.

So I'm considering other alternatives . . . and was wondering specifically if a guy like me (i.e. a complete mechanical idiot) would find a grinder easier to use . . . or should I just bite the bullet and keep taking my chains to the shop . . . and please . . . no comments about just practicing and getting someone to show me how to file . . . I think it's a lost cause.

i take mine to a BIL. With a couple of cold beers. He can put an edge on like no other. Works the best for me.

 

[ms440]

Couple things,

1. Make sure you have the right file
2. I find the larger chains are easier to file. I can put a razor edge on my ms440 chains in no time, but I sometimes strugle a bit with my husky 346xp.

 

[PA Fire Bug]

Buy an electric sharpener and a couple of extra chains if you don't already have 3 or 4 chains. I ready many posts and watched many YouTube videos on how to hand file a saw chain. It looked easier enough but I knew better than to attempt it. There a a few things that I'm good at but I knew that hand filing a chain would not be one of them. You will find many posts from guys who are happy with the $40 sharpener from Harbor Freight. I paid $130 for the Northern Tools chain sharpener since I was worried that I would either brake or not correctly use the cheaper sharpener. It took some practice but I'm really pleased with the results. I know that both sides of cutters are being sharpened to the same length at the same angle. I bought a flat file for the depth gauges since trying to use the grinding wheel on them didn't work (like I said, this is not one of my talents or skills). Once you can sharpen your own chains, you will never put up with using a dull chain because you don't have the time to take you chain to a shop to get it sharpened. What a difference a sharp chain makes!

 

[charly]

Buy an electric sharpener and a couple of extra chains if you don't already have 3 or 4 chains. I ready many posts and watched many YouTube videos on how to hand file a saw chain. It looked easier enough but I knew better than to attempt it. There a a few things that I'm good at but I knew that hand filing a chain would not be one of them. You will find many posts from guys who are happy with the $40 sharpener from Harbor Freight. I paid $130 for the Northern Tools chain sharpener since I was worried that I would either brake or not correctly use the cheaper sharpener. It took some practice but I'm really pleased with the results. I know that both sides of cutters are being sharpened to the same length at the same angle. I bought a flat file for the depth gauges since trying to use the grinding wheel on them didn't work (like I said, this is not one of my talents or skills). Once you can sharpen your own chains, you will never put up with using a dull chain because you don't have the time to take you chain to a shop to get it sharpened. What a difference a sharp chain makes!

Starting with any old cutter on the chain loop, will have you wasting a lot of cutter life by taking off .050 [50 thousandths] instead of just needing to take off .010. Buying some dial calipers from HF will let you find the shortest cutter on the loop. Put a paint dot on any one cutter, measure once around the loop bringing the caliper back to zero each time you find a smaller cutter. Once back around to the paint dot, you'll know what the shortest cutter length is. Now bring the the caliper face to the left so it shows .005 or .010. Start with any one cutter and start grinding it until and reads zero, feeding the chain holder adjustment ahead a little at a time until it reads zero on the calipers. Leave the adjustment and grind all the rest of the cutters. Sometimes you'll have to check when starting the other cutter side. This method will keep you from hogging tons of material off a cutter, wasting the chain. Your taking the bare minimum needed. A long lasting chain this way, plus your not grinding blindly! I've cut 30 cords plus, easily with one chain. I know this sounds complicated, but once you see what's going on , chains will last you a long time. More money in your pocket , plus more production from one chain. I usually try to find the roughest cutter and see of that cleans up with the amount you'd like to remove. I still hand file, but that's my choice, quick and easy for me. Good luck!

 

[mecreature]

Buy an electric sharpener and a couple of extra chains if you don't already have 3 or 4 chains. I ready many posts and watched many YouTube videos on how to hand file a saw chain. It looked easier enough but I knew better than to attempt it. There a a few things that I'm good at but I knew that hand filing a chain would not be one of them. You will find many posts from guys who are happy with the $40 sharpener from Harbor Freight. I paid $130 for the Northern Tools chain sharpener since I was worried that I would either brake or not correctly use the cheaper sharpener. It took some practice but I'm really pleased with the results. I know that both sides of cutters are being sharpened to the same length at the same angle. I bought a flat file for the depth gauges since trying to use the grinding wheel on them didn't work (like I said, this is not one of my talents or skills). Once you can sharpen your own chains, you will never put up with using a dull chain because you don't have the time to take you chain to a shop to get it sharpened. What a difference a sharp chain makes!

Starting with any old cutter on the chain loop, will have you wasting a lot of cutter life by taking off .050 [50 thousandths] instead of just needing to take off .010. Buying some dial calipers from HF will let you find the shortest cutter on the loop. Put a paint dot on any one cutter, measure once around the loop bringing the caliper back to zero each time you find a smaller cutter. Once back around to the paint dot, you'll know what the shortest cutter length is. Now bring the the caliper face to the left so it shows .005 or .010. Start with any one cutter and start grinding it until and reads zero, feeding the chain holder adjustment ahead a little at a time until it reads zero on the calipers. Leave the adjustment and grind all the rest of the cutters. Sometimes you'll have to check when starting the other cutter side. This method will keep you from hogging tons of material off a cutter, wasting the chain. Your taking the bare minimum needed. A long lasting chain this way, plus your not grinding blindly! I've cut 30 cords plus, easily with one chain. I know this sounds complicated, but once you see what's going on , chains will last you a long time. More money in your pocket , plus more production from one chain. I usually try to find the roughest cutter and see of that cleans up with the amount you'd like to remove. I still hand file, but that's my choice, quick and easy for me. Good luck!

Depending on use, you could make a chain last a really long time I bet.

 

[smokinj]

Set your stops and your done, every cutter is the same. I have chains from 2002 that still have life in them.

 

[charly]

Buy an electric sharpener and a couple of extra chains if you don't already have 3 or 4 chains. I ready many posts and watched many YouTube videos on how to hand file a saw chain. It looked easier enough but I knew better than to attempt it. There a a few things that I'm good at but I knew that hand filing a chain would not be one of them. You will find many posts from guys who are happy with the $40 sharpener from Harbor Freight. I paid $130 for the Northern Tools chain sharpener since I was worried that I would either brake or not correctly use the cheaper sharpener. It took some practice but I'm really pleased with the results. I know that both sides of cutters are being sharpened to the same length at the same angle. I bought a flat file for the depth gauges since trying to use the grinding wheel on them didn't work (like I said, this is not one of my talents or skills). Once you can sharpen your own chains, you will never put up with using a dull chain because you don't have the time to take you chain to a shop to get it sharpened. What a difference a sharp chain makes!

Starting with any old cutter on the chain loop, will have you wasting a lot of cutter life by taking off .050 [50 thousandths] instead of just needing to take off .010. Buying some dial calipers from HF will let you find the shortest cutter on the loop. Put a paint dot on any one cutter, measure once around the loop bringing the caliper back to zero each time you find a smaller cutter. Once back around to the paint dot, you'll know what the shortest cutter length is. Now bring the the caliper face to the left so it shows .005 or .010. Start with any one cutter and start grinding it until and reads zero, feeding the chain holder adjustment ahead a little at a time until it reads zero on the calipers. Leave the adjustment and grind all the rest of the cutters. Sometimes you'll have to check when starting the other cutter side. This method will keep you from hogging tons of material off a cutter, wasting the chain. Your taking the bare minimum needed. A long lasting chain this way, plus your not grinding blindly! I've cut 30 cords plus, easily with one chain. I know this sounds complicated, but once you see what's going on , chains will last you a long time. More money in your pocket , plus more production from one chain. I usually try to find the roughest cutter and see of that cleans up with the amount you'd like to remove. I still hand file, but that's my choice, quick and easy for me. Good luck!

Depending on use, you could make a chain last a really long time I bet.

They way I'm telling you to find the shortest cutter first on the chain, will having you removing the least amount of material needed. Yes my chains last years.

 

[Bubbavh]

Great informative video. A bit long... but worth the watch.

 

[BlankBlankBlank]

Great informative video. A bit long... but worth the watch.

This is a very good video. I just watched the whole thing. I like the step-by-step approach. A lot of useful, clear explanations. Thanks for sharing.

 

[MasterMech]

There are a few inaccuracies but nothing serious. I disagree with his chain tensioning criteria, with a cold chain like he had, a "bit of daylight" underneath is too loose. You'll be re-adjusting immediately after you start using the saw. Also the way I was taught, and it's been working well, is to support the nose of the bar, effectively lifting the bar on it's mount, while adjusting chain tension. It helps keep the adjustment as you use the saw. Once the saw is warmed up, I rarely have to stop to fiddle with my chain adjustment.

He also points out the rakers as being the cause of the saw not cutting in a straight line. While this can be and often is true, there are numerous other items I'd eliminate as the cause before I start filing rakers to correct for drift in the cut.

I disagree with the file guide shown as being "training wheels". Maybe something that forced you to stay on angle like the other guide he showed but the guide shown does not force you to do anything. It only provides a better visual reference as to the correct sharpening angles and prevents filing too deep into the gullet. Carpenters and machinists use tools to ensure accuracy so what's wrong with using the same theory on your chainsaw?

Overall a good video that's well presented. I still prefer Stihl's videos but agree whole heartedly with the advice offered at the end of this one regarding loaning out your chainsaw and other valuables.

Here's Stihl's video, they start talking chains at about 14 min in.

 

[charly]

There are a few inaccuracies but nothing serious. I disagree with his chain tensioning criteria, with a cold chain like he had, a "bit of daylight" underneath is too loose. You'll be re-adjusting immediately after you start using the saw. Also the way I was taught, and it's been working well, is to support the nose of the bar, effectively lifting the bar on it's mount, while adjusting chain tension. It helps keep the adjustment as you use the saw. Once the saw is warmed up, I rarely have to stop to fiddle with my chain adjustment.

He also points out the rakers as being the cause of the saw not cutting in a straight line. While this can be and often is true, there are numerous other items I'd eliminate as the cause before I start filing rakers to correct for drift in the cut.

I disagree with the file guide shown as being "training wheels". Maybe something that forced you to stay on angle like the other guide he showed but the guide shown does not force you to do anything. It only provides a better visual reference as to the correct sharpening angles and prevents filing too deep into the gullet. Carpenters and machinists use tools to ensure accuracy so what's wrong with using the same theory on your chainsaw?

Overall a good video that's well presented. I still prefer Stihl's videos but agree whole heartedly with the advice offered at the end of this one regarding loaning out your chainsaw and other valuables.

Here's Stihl's video, they start talking chains at about 14 min in.

After cutting for over 35 years I found a nice way I think to tighten the bar once you get the chain tension set. I simply lift the rear saw handle up with my left hand until the bar is pressing against a piece of wood or a wooden work bench top , then tighten the nuts with my right hand. Your putting pressure all in the same direction as you tighten the nuts. It doesn't take much pressure to put the bar in the up position. Plus your not holding onto the chain with sharp cutters. Also, when done cutting, I "always" relax my chain so there is no tension on the crank shaft bearing or better yet seal on the clutch side.