Reasons for an OAK.

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Tonyray

Minister of Fire
[Reposting this from someone here who I think gave the best explanation for using an OAK

In an average home with normal air sealing, the effect on the stove's performance itself, in terms of how well it burns, will likely not be noticeable. But that's not the reason for an OAK unless you have a very tightly sealed home. For any situation where an OAK is added, the primary benefit is a reduction in the amount and rate of air exchanged from the inside to the outside of the home.

Your combustion blower is actively pumping air from inside to outside at a continuous, relatively high rate whenever it's on. Without an OAK, the air used for combustion is air you already paid to heat, drawn from inside the home. Because your house cannot sustain a vacuum (you and the other people in the house needing to breathe, for example) that air will be replaced by colder, often drier air pulled in from the outside through all the tiny little cracks in your home. You will then need to heat that air, and the needlessly expensive cycle continues. You would not, for example, drill a two-inch wide hole in one wall of your living room in January, then drill a three-inch wide hole in the opposite wall, and put a powerful fan in that hole, and turn it on all day, every day. Yet that is what is happenening when you don't use an OAK. Your stove is powerful enough to overcome that situation, but it works much harder to do so by burning more pellets than you would otherwise need to burn. You also feel more cold drafts near the floor, caused by the outside air being pulled toward the stove.

With an OAK, that combustion air is simply pulled in through the OAK, used for combustion, and exhausted back outside. None of your heated, nicely humidifed air is needed. You spend less money, and remain more comfortable. That's a pretty good deal for just installing a small metal tube.[/quote]
 
I don't understand why this is even a question, I really don't.

My installer made a comment about he doesn't recommend or install an OAK unless the house is tightly sealed. I didn't say a word, why bother? It's like they don't even understand the most basic issues of the purpose of an OAK.

I don't get it.
 
The simplest of concepts are somehow just lost on some people. Go feel how much air your (unlit) stove pushes out the exhaust on high - would you want that amount of cold air blowing into your house? Because when you don't use an OAK, that's exactly what you've got.
 
...My installer made a comment about he doesn't recommend or install an OAK unless the house is tightly sealed. ...

My installer made the same comment. I think they're just trying to take the easy way out. I made him put it in.
 
I don't understand why this is even a question, I really don't.

My installer made a comment about he doesn't recommend or install an OAK unless the house is tightly sealed. I didn't say a word, why bother? It's like they don't even understand the most basic issues of the purpose of an OAK.

I don't get it.

My installers also didn't put in an OAK when they put in the Harman, even though Harman's installation instructions say that it is "highly recommended". A month later I put one in and it cut down on the drafts in the house. Needless to say, I automatically installed an OAK when I installed my St. Croix upstairs. Of course with the SC install, I needed an OAK because of clearance to windows - but I would have done so even if I didn't need it for venting clearance.
 
I ran without OAK for several years. I installed OAK myself over the summer and it made a world of difference.
 
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Sounds like the Pro's need to go back to school and get re-educated when it comes to installing pellet stoves / wood stoves / gas stoves and any other heating device that requires air to work !

And they, the so called Pro's should also follow the instructions that are in the manuals with any device that requires air to burn, instructions are there for a reason.

If they say that the OAK is not needed, ask them if their vehicles engine sucks the warm air from inside the vehicle into the engine, see what they say.
 
Sounds like the Pro's need to go back to school and get re-educated when it comes to installing pellet stoves / wood stoves / gas stoves and any other heating device that requires air to work !

And they, the so called Pro's should also follow the instructions that are in the manuals with any device that requires air to burn, instructions are there for a reason.

If they say that the OAK is not needed, ask them if their vehicles engine sucks the warm air from inside the vehicle into the engine, see what they say.
I think the OP should become a Sticky...
 
Sounds like the Pro's need to go back to school and get re-educated when it comes to installing pellet stoves / wood stoves / gas stoves and any other heating device that requires air to work !

And they, the so called Pro's should also follow the instructions that are in the manuals with any device that requires air to burn, instructions are there for a reason.

If they say that the OAK is not needed, ask them if their vehicles engine sucks the warm air from inside the vehicle into the engine, see what they say.

There's a difference between what is required verses what is preferred. With the exception of mobile homes, airtight conventional homes or stoves that expressly say its a requirement, OAK is not a requirement. The stove will function fine without OAK in these cases.
 
I concur

Some simple math indicated my 90cfm stove changed over the air in the house 13 times per day!

Anyone can try it it with your own numbers, and suggests the savings and comfort are not just in our head.
 
Unfortunately for me , not sure how I can hook one up, would love to.
 
The thing that I do not understand is the people who are paying someone to do a job for them and allowing that person to not do want they want done.
 
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When i put my stove in i didn't even consider not putting it in, i mean its really not difficult in most cases and its just going to help not hurt...just my 2 cents, and not to mention way less chance of smoke coming out during a power outage
 
My installer made the same comment. I think they're just trying to take the easy way out. I made him put it in.

My bad, sounds like I wasn't clear:

I designed my system and I designed it around my Englander NCH-30 including OAK. The installer of the stove or the pipe didn't have any choice. I used him to confirm my clearances to combustibles and to install the stove (including OAK already provided) and SS pipe.
 
Without the OAK installed ........
Heated air is drawn into the stoves combustion chamber from within the house, and then it's thrown outside of the house via the exhaust, so now the stove has to work twice as hard to reheat the cold air that's being pulled in via all the cracks in your home, thus costing you more to heat the house. What's the point of having a stove in the house if your going to transfer that heat outside via the stoves burn chamber / exhaust vent ?

Money to burn ?

I understand how OAK works and why its good to have but its not REQUIRED unless building codes or the stove manufacturer says it is. Will it work better with OAK? Of course. Is it required? depends on building codes and the stove
 
Without the OAK installed ........
Heated air is drawn into the stoves combustion chamber from within the house, and then it's thrown outside of the house via the exhaust, so now the stove has to work twice as hard to reheat the cold air that's being pulled in via all the cracks in your home, thus costing you more to heat the house. What's the point of having a stove in the house if your going to transfer that heat outside via the stoves burn chamber / exhaust vent ?

Money to burn ?

The problem here is that its much more complicated than the thought of 'without an oak your using the air you already paid for and sending it up the flu'. The end result between OAK or no OAK shouldn't drastically change efficiency or cost (more like splitting hairs here I think). The stove does not have to work twice as hard to reheat the cold air, and it shouldn't cost you a lot more to heat the house. Either way cold air is being introduced into the system. The cold air coming in through the OAK is not like 100% isolated from your equation. Now if your house is tight then it may actually impair the most efficient burn.

For me it was required or I would not have (required running across my living room 10'). I've been measuring my burns, firebox temps, flue temps, pellets consumed, etc. have seen no change outside of normal deviation. Though maybe when it get much colder out I'll disconnect the OAK and gather some more data then. In any case its required for me anyhow, and I feel better knowing that I should never have an issue with backdrafting out the intake into my house or ever have an issue of air supply. I hoped it would cut down on felt drafts in the house, but if the wind is blowing I still feel plenty of drafts. Just to drafty I suppose.

But its not some magic thing that will cut your heating costs in half.
 
These are all great reasons for an oak but for me as well was the elimination of another area smoke could could come out in the event of power loss. I have Harman and a UPS to help with that as well on aiding shutdown. My wife's biggest fear was coming home with a house full of smoke.
 
[Reposting this from someone here who I think gave the best explanation for using an OAK

In an average home with normal air sealing, the effect on the stove's performance itself, in terms of how well it burns, will likely not be noticeable. But that's not the reason for an OAK unless you have a very tightly sealed home. For any situation where an OAK is added, the primary benefit is a reduction in the amount and rate of air exchanged from the inside to the outside of the home.

Your combustion blower is actively pumping air from inside to outside at a continuous, relatively high rate whenever it's on. Without an OAK, the air used for combustion is air you already paid to heat, drawn from inside the home. Because your house cannot sustain a vacuum (you and the other people in the house needing to breathe, for example) that air will be replaced by colder, often drier air pulled in from the outside through all the tiny little cracks in your home. You will then need to heat that air, and the needlessly expensive cycle continues. You would not, for example, drill a two-inch wide hole in one wall of your living room in January, then drill a three-inch wide hole in the opposite wall, and put a powerful fan in that hole, and turn it on all day, every day. Yet that is what is happenening when you don't use an OAK. Your stove is powerful enough to overcome that situation, but it works much harder to do so by burning more pellets than you would otherwise need to burn. You also feel more cold drafts near the floor, caused by the outside air being pulled toward the stove.

With an OAK, that combustion air is simply pulled in through the OAK, used for combustion, and exhausted back outside. None of your heated, nicely humidifed air is needed. You spend less money, and remain more comfortable. That's a pretty good deal for just installing a small metal tube.
[/quote]
You're welcome.
 
The problem here is that its much more complicated than the thought of 'without an oak your using the air you already paid for and sending it up the flu'. The end result between OAK or no OAK shouldn't drastically change efficiency or cost (more like splitting hairs here I think). The stove does not have to work twice as hard to reheat the cold air, and it shouldn't cost you a lot more to heat the house. Either way cold air is being introduced into the system. The cold air coming in through the OAK is not like 100% isolated from your equation.

As the guy who wrote the original post quoted, I did so largely to combat this type of "logic", which I see over and over on the forum. Neither I nor anyone else can make it much simpler (many have tried), and these things are not matters of opinion. They are just a matter of physics and building science. As far as whether something is "drastically" changed, that's also not a matter of opinion except to the extent you get to define the word drastically. You can calculate the accelerated air exchanges rather easily if you know the CFM rating of the combustion blower. No one said the stove was "working twice as hard", nor that NO cold air is being introduced into the home. But the effect is considerable, and measurable, and how that is so hard to understand actually boggles my mind. And btw, I really hate to see needless waste, which is what you are describing.
 
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If your exhaust gas is the same temperature with OAK as it is without an OAK, then there is no net heat benefit. Cold combustion air with an OAK would result in less heat flux out of the stove than using warm combustion air drawn from the house. That means no net difference.

If there is a concern about maintaining inside air humidity, then an OAK would have a real benefit since the heat of vaporization of water is quite high. If I am reading this psychometric chart correctly, 70F air with 70%RH has 50% more enthalpy than 70F air with 20%RH (30 vs 20 BTU/lb dry air, respectively).

Both sides of the discussion have some truth.
 
I will have to give this some consideration. We use two stoves and I have always thought they might cause drafts without an OAK. One is easy as the Englander is right on an outside wall. The other one is on the back wall but abuts the garage. I'd be at least 25 feet to get outside with it.... I guess I could draw air from the cold attic but that is still 12 feet away and not sure if that would be a good idea. I think for the quad it would be just too far to be practical.


I will say I have always argued against the OAK. The reasoning I have is that because the air inlet is so close to the floor then it is drawing in cold air from the floor and heating it. .. I didn't want to introduce 0-30 degree air into the combustion chamber... but my reasoning might be flawed. I will certainly do more research. And to think I thought I got $40 back on my stove price by selling the OAK on Ebay... oh well win some lose some.
 
Lots of factors in the equation.
Some of them....
Because of expansion, intake air is less in volume than exhaust air, not 1 to 1, so without an OAK, you're probably not exchanging quite as much room air as it may seem by exhaust blower cfm when the stove is burning.
Outdoor air is lower temperature than room air, so some of your energy input goes into raising this temperature as well.
Indoor air carries more moisture, so you are exhausting room moisture as well without an OAK.
Colder outside air is denser, bringing in more oxygen to the fire than indoor warm air.

I chose to install an OAK mostly because I like the idea of keeping the combustion air separate from room air but also to allow me more position choices, i.e. closer to a window.
I also added a 2" diameter auto manifold heat tube inside my stove from the back of the stove to the firebox inlet, since the stove didn't have this connection originally.
Outdoor air goes directly to the firebox, then out the vent, instead of into the stove's cabinet first. I don't run 24/7, and didn't want the cold air coming into the room through the stove cabinet when the stove's not running.
 
Air exchange rates equal out. Positive (warm) and Negative (cold). For instance: For every 2 cubic feet of cold air that infiltrates your home 2 cubic feet of warm air will be pushed out or escape. The same is true is true in reverse. If you crack a window and warm air goes out then the same amount of cold air will be pulled in. Positives and negatives exchange. Not cold for cold nor warm for warm. These are the same calculations HVAC guys do to figure out how to size your system.

Therefore if you are not using an OAK you will be using and losing warm air from inside due to the exchange rate. Look at it this way. If this + and - exchange did not happen inside your home would become pressurized in a sense. The way you heat a place is to put and keep more BTU's or warmer air in than what you are losing in a given period. Another words you are "pressurizing" inside with hot air. If you open all your windows the pressure wants out and will not stay in on its own. Just like if you mix a hot cup of water with a cold one. It equals out to warm or the average between the two. Same thing with air.

Probably just confused some more with my abstract description there.

Bottom line: OAKS work well and are better to have than stealing your warm inside air you already paid to heat once. Old school chimneys and fire places just steal more of that air due to the larger flues and faster exchange rates.
 
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Air exchange rates equal out. Positive (warm) and Negative (cold). For instance: For every 2 cubic feet of cold air that infiltrates your home 2 cubic feet of warm air will be pushed out or escape. The same is true is true in reverse. If you crack a window and warm air goes out then the same amount of cold air will be pulled in. Positives and negatives exchange. Not cold for cold nor warm for warm. These are the same calculations HVAC guys do to figure out how to size your system.

Therefore if you are not using an OAK you will be using and losing warm air from inside due to the exchange rate. Look at it this way. If this + and - exchange did not happen inside your home would become pressurized in a sense. The way you heat a place is to put and keep more BTU's or warmer air in than what you are losing in a given period. Another words you are "pressurizing" inside with hot air. If you open all your windows the pressure wants out and will not stay in on its own. Just like if you mix a hot cup of water with a cold one. It equals out to warm or the average between the two. Same thing with air.

Probably just confused some more with my abstract description there.

Bottom line: OAKS work well and are better to have than stealing your warm inside air you already paid to heat once. Old school chimneys and fire places just steal more of that air due to the larger flues and faster exchange rates.
Thank you. I read some of these comments above and just scratch my head.
 
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