Recomendations needed

[fire1776]

Looking to install a new stove here very soon and really need help. We're looking to heat 4100 sqft as much as possible in Northern Virginia. The main floor is 2300 sqft with 500 being 23ft. vaulted ceilings and the house is an open floor plan. What cast iron style wood stoves would be up to it, I do not want a catalytic stove. I was looking at the Quadrafire Explorer 2 and then saw the Explorer 3, not sure I want a first year model. Any advice/help truly appreciated, this will be our first stove.

 

[BrotherBart]

Having lived in NOVA and heated with wood for 30 years I am here to tell you that there is no one wood stove that will heat 4100 sq. ft. The stove in your other post is 2.4 cubic feet and my 3.5 cf stove is kicking to keep this 2,500 sq. ft. joint warm in mid winter.

Lots of folks will be along with suggestions.

Welcome to hearth.com.

 

[Kingdoc]

yea that's a lot of space for one stove to fill. I don't know if one will do the job. However I'll be the first to say PE T6 so long as someone else promises to say Blaze king.

 

[Grisu]

Some large cast-iron models: Pacific Energy T6, Quadrafire Isle Royale, Jotul F55 and F600, Hearthstone Manchester. All good stoves; I suggest a forum search to learn about the pros and cons of each model. Nevertheless, you may need a second one to heat the whole house. Are there ceiling fans in the room with the vaulted ceiling?

You will also need a lot of dry wood to feed a large stove during the winter. How many cords do you have already split and stacked sitting in your yard that sun and wind can dry them out over the summer?

 

[begreen]

4100 sq ft and part of that with triple height ceilings which means a lot more cubic ftg to heat in addition to the 4100 sq ft. This is wood furnace or boiler territory and a big one. Or it will take multiple stoves. Either way it you'll need many cords of dry, split, seasoned wood on hand by next Sept..

 

[Rearscreen]

Radiant heat goes well in vaulted situations, if you can incorporate that you'll be quite comfortable. Agreed, 4,000 sf is asking a lot out of any stove.

 

[DougA]

Hearthstone Manchester: Heats up to: 2,400 sq ft; Firebox Capacity: 2.9 cu ft; BTU: Up to 78,000 BTUs; efficiency: 80% LHV
Hearthstone Equinox: Heats up to: 3,500 sq. ft.; Firebox Capacity: 4.0 cu. ft.; BTU: Up to 120,000 BTUs; efficiency: 82% LHV
Kuma Sequoia: Heating Capacity: 3500 sq. ft.; Firebox Capacity: 3.6 cu. ft.; BTU: not stated; efficiency: 89%
Blaze King King Cat. Heating Capacity: 3,000 q. ft. Firebox Capacity: 4.32 cu. ft.; BTU: 51,582 BTU's/h constant output for 12 hours; efficiency: 82% LHV 88% HHV
QuadraFire Explorer III Wood Stove: Heating Capacity: 4,000 q. ft. (depending) Firebox Capacity: 3.0 cu. ft.; BTU: 82,100 BTUs; efficiency: 75.5%

All of this info from the mfg web sites.

These are the giants of wood stoves as far as I know. The Manchester is shown just for comparison since someone listed it earlier. Read carefully as BK states BTU per hour but over a constant 12 hr. period. The others are max. BTU which means that may be what you are achieving over a very short period of time. Firebox size says it all.

Efficiency is shown sometimes with HHV - high heat value and sometimes with LLV - low heat value. Most mfgs. do not give both, so you have to assume they are stating the better # for comparison. The QuadrFire is the lowest and the least efficient. The King will provide more heat over 12 hrs. but if you want to achieve as much heat as the others, you will not get 12 hrs, probably 8 hrs or less IMHO. With the Explorer III at 3.0 cu ft. capacity, the Heating Capacity is vastly overstated, even when it says depending upon your home/weather/etc.

I bought my Equinox from a guy with brand new 4200' main floor house with all cathedral ceilings and he said it heated it fine but he need more heat for the downstairs so he bought a furnace. I have a 4,000 sq ft home/office but for wood heat alone, I'm heating about 1,500' with high cathedral and the Equinox is great, never pushed to the limits but I'm also in Ontario, which gets colder than you. I also have a 24x16' wall of windows which sucks heat like crazy.

The critical thing about wood stoves, the numbers you will read are usually stated as the maximum recommended. That means you are cranking the stove to high heat all the time so typical burn times, etc. will never be achieved.

The BK King is a cat stove and you have stated that you don't want a cat stove. I would seriously want to know why you said that. If you are firm on that, the only choice for a single wood stove answer would be the Equinox IMHO. I own an Equinox so I am bias but then, who isn't? If I had found a used King, I would have bought that instead. They were the only 2 stoves on my list.

 

[bholler]

The BK King is a cat stove and you have stated that you don't want a cat stove. I would seriously want to know why you said that. If you are firm on that, the only choice for a single wood stove answer would be the Equinox IMHO. I own an Equinox so I am bias but then, who isn't? If I had found a used King, I would have bought that instead. They were the only 2 stoves on my list.

For someone who will be pushing their stove as hard as they will i dont really see a cat stove as having allot of advantage. They are fantastic at controlling heat and long burns but at 4100 sq ft with a 23' vault they are going to be really pushing what ever they choose. I honestly dont know that 2 stoves would even do it very well. nd no i am by no means bashing cat stoves but in this situation i dont see allot of advantage

 

[DougA]

For someone who will be pushing their stove as hard as they will i dont really see a cat stove as having allot of advantage.

Yes, in the dead of winter, that's true. But I'm assuming that the shoulder seasons will be just as long as the winter. My brother used to live in WV and they had mild winters compared to me BUT, if he's up in the mountains, that's another story. The other factor is that he may be burning less than perfect wood, so a cat stove may become a headache.

The real question is the layout of the house and if 2300' are on the main floor and the rest is above that but open? A big heater (if one existed) will probably cook the people upstairs and leave the ones downstairs feeling cold. Air circulation should be considered as important as heat.

I think the OP may be happy just to supplement the existing heater with a nice wood stove but we won't know until we get more info. If this is a new build, I'd be looking at a wood furnace.

 

[bholler]

Yes, in the dead of winter, that's true. But I'm assuming that the shoulder seasons will be just as long as the winter. My brother used to live in WV and they had mild winters compared to me BUT, if he's up in the mountains, that's another story. The other factor is that he may be burning less than perfect wood, so a cat stove may become a headache.

I agree but with that much space i doubt a large tube style stove would be to much. But yes we need a layout

 

[begreen]

Manufacturing websites are going to push their products in the best light. Yes, their stove may heat 3500 sq ft, but in what region, with what outside temperature and at what inside temp? Ignore marketing and go by common sense. There are only so many btus in a cu ft of wood and stoves are only so efficient.

Remember that the stove is an area heater. Select the area you want to heat and size the stove accordingly paying attention to the cubic ftg of the room as well as sq ftg.. Insulation and glass area are also major factors.

If the goal is to heat the whole barn get an appropriately sized furnace or boiler to handle the load or install multiple stoves, fireplaces,etc..

 

[fire1776]

Thank you all for your sharing your knowledge! A little more information about the house. The house was built in 2007 and is 2X6 construction with a very open floor plan, central stairs with cold air return at the top of the stairs for the second zone. Main floor return will be on the opposite end of the house, ceiling fans throughout. We currently have two large Heatilator gas fireplaces, one downstairs and one upstairs. Upstairs fireplace we can't run for more than an hour without knocking us out of the master bedroom. The downstairs one will keep the house HVAC system from turning on during the coldest nights when we run it, however once the gas guy show's up we realize that's not really the way to go. At all. We need a stove that looks good, has a nice even burn and can really step up when needed. Will be looking at Quafrafire Explorer 2 and 3, Jotul 500/600 and Pacific Energy today. Can I end up with a bigger stove than I need? Should I get the blower? How are those screens, are they worth it because I think we would really like that. How about the fresh air kit, should I get that?

Thank you all for your help, I realize these questions probably have been answered before but it's time for us to choose our stove and I now realize how much I don't know.

 

[begreen]

You're not at risk of overheating the house. Stick with 3 cu ft or larger stoves.

 

[Grisu]

Can I end up with a bigger stove than I need? Should I get the blower? How are those screens, are they worth it because I think we would really like that. How about the fresh air kit, should I get that?

You are unlikely to get a stove that will be too big for your home given its size. How much gas do you usually use during a cold winter month? Knowing that will help in getting the proper stove size.

With that large of an open space and a freestanding stove a blower will not be needed. On the other hand, it will also not hurt to have one.

Most members here that bought those screens used them a few times and since then they are gathering dust. Since you also have two gas fireplaces that you can use for the "open" fire experience I think you can save that expense.

I would definitively consider an open air kit for a modern and probably rather airtight construction. Would it be easy to install one in the location you are considering?

 

[Jags]

Go big or go home. There isn't a stove that I am aware of that is gonna heat you out of that place. As a user of the Quad IR I don't think it will do it. Fantastic stove but I don't think ANY 3.0 cuft stove is gonna do it.

Personally, to take a big bite out of your heating load is gonna take a big stove. The Equinox would be at the top of my short list and if you can accept the aesthetics the Blaze King, King would be right there with it. Both stoves take 8" pipe vs the 6" used by others, but in the long run it will probably pay off.

 

[DougA]

Personally, to take a big bite out of your heating load is gonna take a big stove. The Equinox would be at the top of my short list and if you can accept the aesthetics the Blaze King, King would be right there with it. Both stoves take 8" pipe vs the 6" used by others, but in the long run it will probably pay off.

++1

Big stoves cost big $$ but they will last many decades. My old VC was 31 yrs old and still worked well when I removed it for the Equinox.
I have a fresh air kit and you MAY need it but unlikely. I would try my best to locate the stove where you can add one if needed.

Forget the screen. I have one and have never used it. You need to understand the fundamentals of wood heat. You want as little air going into the stove as possible to keep a good fire. BUT - vital - a good fire is not roaring red flames, the best is a soft dance of small blue flames. It almost looks like there is no fire at all. That is when you get the most heat for your house. Big flames mean the heat is going up your chimney and with a screen on, you will lose most of the heat to the outside because there is too much air going into the fire. Not good. Enjoy the fire with the glass door.

 

[Ashful]

I do not want a catalytic stove..

Of course. Why would you want a more efficient stove, that generates more heat with less wood, and has a vastly wider range of burn rate settings? :rolleyes

 

[BKVP]

As of May 15th, 2015, manufacturers must provide the HHV% of efficiency for all their models. You will see several significant reductions on some models due to this requirement. A few years ago a spreadsheet was posted somewhere with pre 2008 HHV (thermal efficiency) numbers for models on the market. In 2008, those numbers increased an average of 8-11%. (LHV)

Always ask for the HHV efficiency and you will get a much clearer picture of how efficient/inefficient certain models can be.

Also, keep in mind that ALL efficiencies in the HHV (as far as stoves are concerned) based upon dimensional test loads, not cord wood. That too will change in the near future to cord wood in many cases.

 

[fire1776]

So I think we decided.........until today. We were going to go with the Jotul 500 until we stopped into one more store this afternoon and were shown the Enviro Boston 1700. The salesman made a good pitch saying how much heat it throws out ect. However I noticed that the firebox was the same size as the 500 at 2.5 sqft and the BTU's about the same as well. We were looking at 3 sqft fire boxes but didn't love the Quadrafire Explorer III (door felt super light and thin) and hated the double door and removable handle on the the Jotul 600. So back to the Enviro, any thoughts and recommendations between the Jotul 500 and Enviro Boston 1700? We like the looks and feel of both and would like to know if there is a huge difference in performance for the price (2999.00 for the Oslo in Blue black vs. 3200.00 for the Boston) and durability, we're still kinda leaning towards the 500.

 

[begreen]

The Enviro Boston is an excellent stove. But before deciding I would still look at a couple 3 cu ft stoves. Did you look at the Jotul F55 when at the store? It is the same design as the Boston, but larger. I would look at the PE Alderlea T6 too. It is also a cast iron jacketed steel stove like the Boston and F55.

 

[billb3]

My brother has a Jotul 600 in majolica brown.
You put the handle in a drawer someplace because you load wood thru the side door and never open the front doors.
Ever.

When nights go below 25ºF or so you're gonna wish you had a bigger stove than the F500.

 

[stovelark]

With the house you mentioned, you will want all the heat you can get- get big stove and get plenty of good dry seasoned wood. The best stoves in the world still suck with poor wood. If you want the best stove in the world for you, get the one you want. I will agree with everyone else the big boys is right for you. The Boston is a pretty stove, has a great engine in it, so does the Oslo. I'd still want the extra piece or two (or three) of wood that will fit into the bigger fireboxes, it just makes sense for you. The F55 by Jotul and T6 from Pac Energy would be good choices, Jotul still has their coupon available till the end of the month, them two would be quite the heat hammer for the money. Those prices for the F500 sounded high to me (dead retail). The Enviro was an enamel price too right? Nice looking stoves, both of them, but I'd go bigger (The Firelight in Blue Black is stunning....) Good luck with whatever you choose. Remember stove top thermometer to help guide you running her and good dry wood.

 

[Ashful]

Hard to beat the quality and beauty of a Jotul Firelight or Oslo...

 

[begreen]

And I too love that blue-black enamel finish on the Jotuls.

 

[fire1776]

Thank again for the help with the stove, we decided on a Jotul F500 and had it installed by ACME Stoves in Charlottesville VA . This was supposed to be a victory message however we just can't get it to burn, the stove just wont get over 300 degrees. When we move the damper more than halfway open smoke starts to pour into the house where the stove connects to the pipe. This also happens whenever the secondary burn kicks in momentarily and seems to just put it right out. When I open the door the wood bursts into flame and promptly goes right out when I close it, smoke pouring into the house from the pipe. I contacted Jim with ACME and he adamantly said that I had unseasoned wood. The wood I'm using now is Poplar that was split last year and is stored covered off the ground with a moisture meter reading of right around 15%. He also stated that moisture meters were horribly inaccurate, which I won't dispute but the wood appears dry, sounds hollow when I hit it together, doesn't hiss and when I open the door it bursts into flame. What am I doing wrong, should the smoke and liquid creosote be coming out of the pipe there and why won't it fire?