Recommendations for a totally new hearth setup

[jaybz]

Hey guys, first I'd just like to thank everyone here for taking the time to post so much knowledge. I've learned a ton from this site that's helped me get up to speed on wood burning.

Here's where I'm at- I just moved in to my first house a few months ago after a complete renovation. Its about 1200 sqft in Sussex County NJ, so we get some decently cold winters. A few months ago we got down to -10 which is darn close to the lower limit of my heat pumps I currently use as a primary heat source, so a wood stove is a necessity at this point. I've got a nice compact layout and a decent spot for the stove in a central location. During the renovation, the whole house got a thick coat of spray foam insulation and triple pane windows. It's a really tight house now, so I take it an outside air kit is a must. Also, space is at a premium so low clearances are important. I also like the idea of a nice flush sheet metal hearth pad, so only back wall clearance and stove depth are really important to me. That led me to the Hearthstone Manchester, which should allow overnight burns and only stick out 26" from the wall in addition to being beautiful. My only hesitation is that it's a big stove, heat wise. As someone brand new to burning in something other than a fire pit, is this stove going to be too much for my small place? Or can I build a small fire in a big firebox and be okay? I see that the BK Ashford can be turned down to 12kbtu/h or so which would be just right, but its not as compact. I don't see published minimum heat output for hearthstones like I do the BK units, so would the Manchester be able to turn down that far? Anything else I'm missing?

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Welcome. Based on the insulation description and house size, the Manchester would turn the place into an oven quickly. It sounds like you are going to need a very low btu stove. The Ashford is heading in the right direction. It has another advantage of being a front loader, which would require a smaller hearth and clearances. Before proceeding I would run a heat loss calculation on the house. You might be surprised how little heat it is going to take to heat the place now. You will also need to stick with stoves that require ember protection only if you want to use sheet metal for the hearth pad.

Is the floorplan wide open to the stove room? Are there high ceilings or normal height?

 

[jaybz]

My manual J calculation came up with 13kbtu/h, and judging by the load on my heat pump I never got above that even in on the coldest day. I'd ideally get a stove that could go down to 6k or so for the shoulder seasons.

It's a wide open floor plan, the first floor has no walls at all and my ceilings are 7'2".

 

[begreen]

Good for you! Your heating needs are low. Even some cat stoves would near their lowest setting to provide 13K btus steady heat.. 6K btus is getting down below stove heating territory. At that point you are far better off running the heat pump. That's what we do in shoulder seasons. It more efficient and cost effective.

 

[Ashful]

Another option is pump and glide with a very small stove. If your heat retention is good (mine is not!), this could be made to work. Small fire for a few hours in the morning and evening, store up some BTU’s, and see how the house holds it. Let the heat pump pick up the gaps.

Me? I’d go Ashford 30, and just run it on cold days and nights, as begreen suggests. The heat pump is going to have very good efficiency in warmer weather, and your heating needs are very low. Heating with wood sounds nice, but it does get old when you’re loading a stove every day for months on end, so taking a break on warmer days would be a nice pattern. The main advantage of the Ashford 30 is that it can stretch a single load over 36 hours on hardwood, with an ideal chimney setup.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I would consider pump and glide with a smaller non-cat if the desire is to have a nice fire view and a chill chaser when it gets cold. That's how we're heating today. One smallish fire in the morning could be all we need. The sun is keeping the house and greenhouse toasty warm. My concern with a cat stove is that it may never get below a low idle. It seems somewhat pointless to put in something in the living room that ends up being a black window.

 

[Ashful]

Yep. The flip side to that is that a small stove will struggle, if the goal is heating the joint on those rare -10F days, or thru power outages. All stoves are a compromise, at one end or the other.

 

[kennyp2339]

Welcome bro, I'm right up the street in the county, I have a BK princess which serves my place very well, the Bk princess is the ugly older sister of the ashford, you will have great luck if you stay with in the BK line, it is true that you can turn these stoves way down, and literally burn 24hrs at on one loading. The key to success with these stoves is the proper chimney height and truly seasoned wood (15% moisture content)
I'm also heating about 1500 sqft from the basement of my raised ranch, my house was built in the late 80's, 2x4 cons, double pane windows and maybe r30 insulation in the attic, I have no real issues with heating the place and keeping it in the low 70's, as a matter of fact I have not burnt a drop of oil for heat production yet this year.
I bought my BK at Fire comfort - Goshen NY (they have a show room open if you call a head)
Depending on you floor layout you may want to consider another look at the BK 20 series stoves.
If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[begreen]

Yep. The flip side to that is that a small stove will struggle, if the goal is heating the joint on those rare -10F days, or thru power outages. All stoves are a compromise, at one end or the other.

Yes, though It shouldn't be too much of a struggle if the max demand is less than 20Kbtus/hr. And -10º days in NJ are getting rarer.

 

[xman23]

Yes what BG said about the hearth requirements. We chose the Jotul because it looked nice and my wife is Norwegian. Not exactly real smart. I recall checking all the clearances but not the floor requirements. Luckily it only needed to be fire proof. We did 2 inch stone. So before picking the stove understand what you will need to build for a hearth.

 

[sutphenj]

Yes what BG said about the hearth requirements. We chose the Jotul because it looked nice and my wife is Norwegian. Not exactly real smart. I recall checking all the clearances but not the floor requirements. Luckily it only needed to be fire proof. We did 2 inch stone. So before picking the stove understand what you will need to build for a hearth.

What about the new to come BK boxster? What is the btu rating on that puppy? Or the tiny Woodstock survival? I know nothing about these just that I believe they are small and of course cat stoves. I'm sure others can chime in.

 

[sutphenj]

Well looks like the boxster was originally thought to be a 2.3 cf box taking 22 inch splits (old article found using the google)...not terribly small I suppose.

 

[Ashful]

Depending on you floor layout you may want to consider another look at the BK 20 series stoves.

I would also think an Ashford 20 might be ideal. I've never understood why BK lists it as having the same low output range as the much larger Ashford 30. It's not intuitive, and I'm inclined to not believe it.

 

[weatherguy]

I'd go with the Ashford 30, you can dial it down and get long burn times but if it' get frigid it has the power to heat your house.

 

[Poindexter]

The boxter 24 (i want one for my shop real bad) is the same firebox as the BK 25 fireplace inserts. It really is a black sheet metal box, riding on the same epa cert the fireplace inserts earned.

Its got huge glass, could maybe be repainted some other color. I think it includes the fan kit for the inserts from the factory.

It wont have the same peak output as a non cat, but radiant output through all that glass at full throttle will be noticeable. Not sure how low it can go.

For pump and glide the englander nc 13 would be a lot less money.

 

[kennyp2339]

I would also think an Ashford 20 might be ideal. I've never understood why BK lists it as having the same low output range as the much larger Ashford 30. It's not intuitive, and I'm inclined to not believe it.

The output maybe calculated the same, you can only burn wood so slow, but with the small stove you also have a smaller stove top which means a smaller heat transfer area.

 

[sutphenj]

The boxter 24 (i want one for my shop real bad) is the same firebox as the BK 25 fireplace inserts. It really is a black sheet metal box, riding on the same epa cert the fireplace inserts earned.

Its got huge glass, could maybe be repainted some other color. I think it includes the fan kit for the inserts from the factory.

It wont have the same peak output as a non cat, but radiant output through all that glass at full throttle will be noticeable. Not sure how low it can go.

For pump and glide the englander nc 13 would be a lot less money.

Sounds interesting. The tease banner on here says coming in March for the boxster. Well it's March and nothing on the website unless I missed it.

 

[Ashful]

The output maybe calculated the same, you can only burn wood so slow, but with the small stove you also have a smaller stove top which means a smaller heat transfer area.

Convection and radiation are both scaled linearly by surface area and surface temperature. Keep that Ashford 20 at the same surface temperature as an Ashford 30, and it’s going to put off less heat... by a lot.

 

[jaybz]

That's a ton of really good info! It seems like at this point its a matter of usage preference. In essence, do I want to keep a fire going consistently with low output and get a BK, or pump and glide with a smaller stove to use as mainly supplemental heat, for fun, and emergencies. The latter option definitely fits more to my style. A "nice fire view and a chill chaser" is exactly what I'm after.

The small stoves you guys mentioned would certainly fit the bill, but this thing is going to be the centerpiece of my house. It really has to be pretty, especially since at least 60% of the year it'll be sitting idle.

My father in law really likes the VC line of stoves and suggested I take a look, and as much as I hate to say it the Intrepid II would be a good compromise, at least on paper. Cat stove, longer burn times, low turn down ratio, relatively low clearances, and its gorgeous. Someone please talk me out of this.

 

[begreen]

Take a look at the small Hampton H200 and see what you think.

 

[Supersweeps]

Please remember when turning the heat down on a stove your are creating more creosote build up in the flue. creosote is caused by smoke time in the chamber and the cooler the fire the cooler the smoke, which means more creosote. Unless you have your own chimney sweep maybe working with a pellet stove that is thermostat enabled would be the best and economical way of heating your home. If you want wood burning going with a smaller firebox will reduce the urge to overfire your system or using eco blocks would enable a overnight fire without having to keep stocking the fire.

 

[Supersweeps]

Oh and the eco blocks will work with any wood burning stove

 

[jaybz]

Its a pretty stove for sure, but it'll stick out 6.5" more into the room than even the HS Manchester. Funnier still, at minimum it's only rated for 712 BTU less! 11612 for the HS vs. 10900 for the Hampton. I definitely would have expected a bigger difference.

 

[bholler]

That's a ton of really good info! It seems like at this point its a matter of usage preference. In essence, do I want to keep a fire going consistently with low output and get a BK, or pump and glide with a smaller stove to use as mainly supplemental heat, for fun, and emergencies. The latter option definitely fits more to my style. A "nice fire view and a chill chaser" is exactly what I'm after.

The small stoves you guys mentioned would certainly fit the bill, but this thing is going to be the centerpiece of my house. It really has to be pretty, especially since at least 60% of the year it'll be sitting idle.

My father in law really likes the VC line of stoves and suggested I take a look, and as much as I hate to say it the Intrepid II would be a good compromise, at least on paper. Cat stove, longer burn times, low turn down ratio, relatively low clearances, and its gorgeous. Someone please talk me out of this.

I personally would avoid vc at all costs. They have a long way to go before they regain a reputation for reliability.

 

[jaybz]

Although ecoblocks would definitely help in regards to burn time, it would defeat the purpose for me as I'd be back to buying fuel. I'll do some more research into the low end heat output of smaller stoves and see if there's something that'll fit my bill.