Reducing Costs On a Masonry Heater Build

[byQ]

The main ingredients needed:
* a door,
* firebrick for the core,
* outer thermal mass material (stone, clay brick, concrete, soapstone.
* masonry mortar & cement
* clean-out doors
* ash pan
* grate (not needed unless desired)

I. Masonry Heater Doors - doors in the US come from 2 main sources
A. Northstone Heat in Vancouver, Washington. www.northstoneheat.com
B. Maine Wood Heat Co., in Skowhegan, Maine. https://mainewoodheat.com/tag/masonry-heater-doors
* expect to pay from $500 to $1500 for a masonry heater door.

C. Other Door possibilities -
1. Doors from China, $50 to $55 - http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Exquisite-design-fireplace-doors_1204440576.html
These doors are made of cast iron and weigh about 24 lbs. They are roughly 18" x 19" which is a good size for a masonry heater door. Spec-wise they are similar to the more expensive doors. Also, a minimum order of 100 doors must be placed. So this would be a group of builders thing. There are other door styles too. They include the right kind of glass I believe I read somewhere.

2. Fireplace Clean-out doors. Before glass these kind of doors were used. You only need enough opening to get your firewood in.
Minuteman international CDR-212 cleanout door at Amazon.com. It cost ~$115, and has a 12" x 12" opening. This is a very functional door. You'ld have to make a latch for it though.

3. Build a door.
(to be continued)

 

[begreen]

How about adapting a regular stove door? When my BIL made his built-in bake/pizza oven he got the door set for a VC Resolute and adapted them for wall mount. It came out looking sharp. I will have to take a picture next time I visit.

 

[byQ]

How about adapting a regular stove door? When my BIL made his built-in bake/pizza oven he got the door set for a VC Resolute and adapted them for wall mount. It came out looking sharp. I will have to take a picture next time I visit.

I was thinking about this, too. You would probably have to weld up some sort of rectangular frame for the door. Some one told me the glass in a masonry heater and wood stove was different but it is the same. Also, the metal recycling yards get old smoke dragons with those non-glass doors, and these would work. One could probably get one of these doors and build a frame for it.

 

[bholler]

I would think you could find an old stove and cut the front off or just take an old cast stove disassemble it and use the front panel. I don't see why the glass would be different.

 

[webby3650]

I was thinking about this, too. You would probably have to weld up some sort of rectangular frame for the door. Some one told me the glass in a masonry heater and wood stove was different but it is the same. Also, the metal recycling yards get old smoke dragons with those non-glass doors, and these would work. One could probably get one of these doors and build a frame for it.

We scrap several stoves a year that have good doors and frames.
A Hearthstone door would be good. The door and frame are easily removable from the stove. And a replacement door would be available if it was ever needed. I would really want to see the fire! Those other options are cheaper, but would be out of the question for me.

 

[bholler]

That is a good idea webby a hearthstone would be a really easy one to adapt. I think most cast stoves would not be that hard either it just depends what you could find

 

[byQ]

We scrap several stoves a year that have good doors and frames.
A Hearthstone door would be good. The door and frame are easily removable from the stove. And a replacement door would be available if it was ever needed. I would really want to see the fire! Those other options are cheaper, but would be out of the question for me.

Thanks for the great inside info. These old doors could be reused.

 

[begreen]

I was thinking about this, too. You would probably have to weld up some sort of rectangular frame for the door. Some one told me the glass in a masonry heater and wood stove was different but it is the same. Also, the metal recycling yards get old smoke dragons with those non-glass doors, and these would work. One could probably get one of these doors and build a frame for it.

Yes. I'll have to ask him but I think he had an angle iron frame welded up and hinge posts added.

 

[byQ]

The main ingredients needed:
* a door,
* firebrick for the core,
*outer thermal mass material (stone, clay brick, concrete, soapstone.
* masonry mortar & cement
* clean-out doors
* ash pan
* grate (not needed unless desired)

I. Masonry Heater Doors - doors in the US come from 2 main sources
A. Northstone Heat in Vancouver, Washington. www.northstoneheat.com
B. Maine Wood Heat Co., in Skowhegan, Maine. https://mainewoodheat.com/tag/masonry-heater-doors
* expect to pay from $500 to $1500 for a masonry heater door.

C. Other Door possibilities -
1. Doors from China, $50 to $55 - http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Exquisite-design-fireplace-doors_1204440576.html
These doors are made of cast iron and weigh about 24 lbs. They are roughly 18" x 19" which is a good size for a masonry heater door. Spec-wise they are similar to the more expensive doors. Also, a minimum order of 100 doors must be placed. So this would be a group of builders thing. There are other door styles too. They include the right kind of glass I believe I read somewhere.

2. Fireplace Clean-out doors. Before glass these kind of doors were used. You only need enough opening to get your firewood in.
Minuteman international CDR-212 cleanout door at Amazon.com. It cost ~$115, and has a 12" x 12" opening. This is a very functional door. You'ld have to make a latch for it though.

3. Build a door.
(to be continued)

4. Doors from old wood stoves, especially older Hearthstone models. A frame may have to be welded together for the wood stove door. If a person doesn't weld they could get the pieces ready and bring them to a welding shop.

 

[byQ]

II. Outer Thermal Mass Material - This is the part you see, and is where the heat comes from. It goes over the firebrick core. There are many options here. Generally you want a 3" to 6" thickness. If you are spending much money you aren't trying very hard. These materials can be had for free (well gas money anyways) or low cost.
A. Potential Materials -
* Common clay brick
* Stone - round river stone, common stone, angled stone, cut stone, field stone, pebbles (pressed to stucco), cultured stone(?)
* Stucco
* Soapstone
* Adobe (rarely used)
* Tile - makes a more refined look, granite, marble, ceramic, porcelain, glass, etc...usually put over common brick.

B. Obtaining brick and stone at low cost. Most masonry contractors are required to over order their needed brick and/or stone for residential and commercial projects. Some of the brick/stone that is used is ideal for a masonry heater. And the good news is you don't need that much. So that brick or stone left over from a house building project is probably enough for a masonry heater.

And if it is an odd brick or stone they are probably glad to offload it at a big discount. Sometimes brick yards will have "leftover pallets" of brick that they are willing to sell at a major discount if asked. It is taking up space. Getting a couple pallets of different rock or brick could work. Make a pattern with more than one color of brick or stone. Extra stone from home construction, like those below, could make a good looking masonry heater.




1. Free Stone on Craigslist - It seems wives not only change out furniture but rocks in the yard, too. I often see ads like this, 'river rock for free - just haul it away'. Try to get the 3" to 8" thick rocks. Rocks like these are ideal.



And can result in a masonry heater that looks like these examples,



2. Brick building tear downs - Usually these bricks are headed for the dump. Just ask you'll probably get as many bricks as you want for free or $20. You will have to clean the mortar off. Ugly bricks could still be valuable. You could put them up, and put attractive tile over them. Calling a demolition company and asking if they are doing any building teardowns is a good way to find bricks. I got these bricks for $40 (left) and free (right),


3. Of course, just go gather stone. Where I live in Idaho I can get as much as I need for a masonry heater on forest land for $30 + gas.

 

[byQ]

4. Rock Quarry left-overs. This is what I'm going to use on my masonry heater build. Cost - $20. They are culled for their shape and size, but are usable for a masonry heater.

 

[byQ]

III. Firebrick for the core - a core is generally made of firebrick but could also be constructed of molded refractory cement pieces or soapstone.

A. Firebrick -
1. Comes in several duty statuses: light, medium, high and super duty status. You will need full and split (half) bricks. Generally, although a split brick only has half the material it will cost about the same as a full brick. Also, the higher the duty status the more expensive the brick (usually). Most masons use medium duty fire brick due to cost, and they know these bricks work. But some masons are starting to use the high duty bricks (especially in the firebox).

a) There are advantages to low and medium duty firebrick, 1) they cycle from hot to cold better, that is they are less prone to fracturing and 2) they are generally cheaper.
b) Advantages to high and super duty firebrick, 1) they don't chip/wear away as much in the firebox and 2) they are denser so they hold more heat. But can they cycle? That is the question with these bricks. If they can, they would make very good bricks for a core.

2. Which Companies for Firebrick?
* Alsey Refractories - in Alsey, IL. (broken link removed to http://alsey.com/products/fireplace-brick/) The brick of choice is the Smithfield. It is a medium duty firebrick. You can get them right from the factory but you have to pay through one of their distributors first.

* Whitacre Greer - in Alliance, OH. (broken link removed to http://www.wgpaver.com/firebrick-2/) These are more of a low to medium duty firebrick.

And if you are out west? Mutual Materials makes firebricks but they aren't as good as the above two company's firebrick.
http://www.mutualmaterials.com/homeowner/masonry-products/firebrick

Also Harbison Walker a nationwide company and has good firebrick like the clipper DP but they cost a bit more. (broken link removed to http://www.hwr.com/EEC/Incineration/SalesOffices.asp)

The firebrick will cost you from $200 to $500 depending on the size of the masonry heater you are building.

 

[DougA]

I made some calls today and a core kit in Ontario from two different mfgs. runs about $6K picked-up from their site. Having an expert masonry heater mason come to your home to custom build the core runs about $8K. Facing is extra in both quotes but includes all doors, etc. To me, the option to buy a kit seems poor value since few people will be wanting a standard core IMHO and for an extra $2K, you get an expert to do all the work of design and build. Obviously, doing everything yourself from scratch appears most attractive but it's not for people who lack confidence or experience.

I remember the first block wall I built that was 6' high and holding a wall of dirt behind it. Looked perfect until it fell down. I didn't add enough reinforcing bars and had someone re-build it. That one stood 30 yrs. until they bulldozed the area for redevelopment. What has to be remembered is that someday you, your spouse or your kids have to sell your house and if the masonry heater is less than stellar, the value goes down. The odds of finding a buyer who understands and appreciates the virtues of a masonry heater are slim to none. Masonry heaters are not like wood stoves. You can't get the junk man to haul it away in an hour. In my case, a completed masonry heater represents 2% of the value of the house but could easily drop the value 20% if it looks like brick sh*t house. Food for thought.

After lengthy conversations, it seemed like a masonry heater should be supplying a similar amount of heat as a good quality large but not huge wood stove. No difference with the quality of wood. Wood under 20% moisture is essential. I'm told 3 full cords is pretty typical for a winter.

 

[byQ]

Wow $6k just for a core. I called Harbison Walker. They sell the 55# bags of refractory cement that the core in these kits are made out of. We did some rough calculations and came up with 40 bags (probably too many). Anyway at $30/bag = ~$1200 for just the refractory cement. I understand the kits come with a door, clean-outs, a damper, and probably other stuff, too. Masonry Heaters can get expensive in a hurry!

 

[MasonryPro]

I would just like to inform the DIY'ers trying to build a High Efficiency Masonry Heater that there are certain areas between the core and facing materials that must be properly installed and safely built by a certified Masonry Heater professional.

If not, you risk not only cracking the facing materials, but also an internal fire from improper consruction, and waste all your time and expensive materials with an end product that is very unsafe - in the middle of your home. An internal fire will leak CO (Carbon Monoxide) gas, which is undetectable and is deadly if particulate emissions are released through faulty construction in an enclosed space, such as a new, air-tight home.

SAFETY - These fireplaces can reach temperatures of 1,700, to 2,000+ degrees in the firebox because of the contra-flow idesign they employ. A properly constructed masonry heater will weigh in at least 5,000 lbs, usually more. They need to be properly installed to work at peak efficiency.

COST - The reason these fireplaces are expensive is the amount of manual labor that goes into installation. A three person crew needs 1-2 weeks, working 8 hours per day to construct a Masonry Heater. The facing material also has to be Masonry Heater compliant - certain masonry types are not recommended for heat transfer.

GUARANTEE - A professional masonry heater company will stand behind their product and offer expert service and repair if needed.


This is not intended to discourage the use of these awesome fireplaces. Nothing can replace the therapeutic, radiant warmth these fireplaces emit, something a woodstove simply will never do.

As a previous poster mentioned, I am encouraging you to hire a Masonry Heater professional in your area to properly install your fireplace, for your safety, and future owners of your home.

An entry level Mercedes Benz costs about the same as a top-of-the-line Masonry Heater. Would you try to build a Mercedes Benz to save money?

 

[webby3650]

byQ, don't be discouraged. I'm sure its difficult but its not impossible. With all the info and videos that are available I would think it would be pretty easy to avoid a big mistake. I've enjoyed following along through your adventure so far.

$30,000-$40,000! Geez! That's so much money when you consider that a $3,000 stove will out perform it on many levels. What is the rate if return? I'm guessing about 30-40 years! That sure takes the effiecincy out of it. That is the reason many people decide to give it a try themselves. Unless you are a doctor or a politician, I'd say having it done for you isn't an option.

 

[byQ]

I would just like to inform the DIY'ers trying to build a High Efficiency Masonry Heater that there are certain areas between the core and facing materials that must be properly installed and safely built by a certified Masonry Heater professional.

If not, you risk not only cracking the facing materials, but also an internal fire from improper consruction, and waste all your time and expensive materials with an end product that is very unsafe - in the middle of your home. An internal fire will leak CO (Carbon Monoxide) gas, which is undetectable and is deadly if particulate emissions are released through faulty construction in an enclosed space, such as a new, air-tight home.

SAFETY - These fireplaces can reach temperatures of 1,700, to 2,000+ degrees in the firebox because of the contra-flow idesign they employ. A properly constructed masonry heater will weigh in at least 5,000 lbs, usually more. They need to be properly installed to work at peak efficiency.

COST - The reason these fireplaces are expensive is the amount of manual labor that goes into installation. A three person crew needs 1-2 weeks, working 8 hours per day to construct a Masonry Heater. The facing material also has to be Masonry Heater compliant - certain masonry types are not recommended for heat transfer.

GUARANTEE - A professional masonry heater company will stand behind their product and offer expert service and repair if needed.


This is not intended to discourage the use of these awesome fireplaces. Nothing can replace the therapeutic, radiant warmth these fireplaces emit, something a woodstove simply will never do.

As a previous poster mentioned, I am encouraging you to hire a Masonry Heater professional in your area to properly install your fireplace, for your safety, and future owners of your home.

An entry level Mercedes Benz costs about the same as a top-of-the-line Masonry Heater. Would you try to build a Mercedes Benz to save money?

MasonryPro,
I believe masonry heaters are an underutilized wood burning resource here in North America. Right now, most wood burners admire them but won't really consider them as a viable option due mainly to the cost. A good woodstove for $2500 or a masonry heater for $12000? This puts the masonry heater in the unrealistic/unreachable class (like a Mercedes Benz) for most people. More of a luxury item than a practical item. Yet masonry heaters are very practical, and very good wood burners - probably the best wood burners in the right house.

If a wanna-be masonry heater owner asked you to build them just a core out of firebricks (and wrap it with cardboard or fiberglass) would you do this? So the wanna-be owner would do the shell and attach the door, clean-outs, piping, and damper. And if so, what would it cost?

 

[byQ]

Some day I would like to see the big box stores sell masonry heater core kits. This is a win-win situation for consumers and the environment. Simplified and mass produced to bring the cost down. Also, the buyer would have to build the shell themselves or hire this task out to a general mason. Start this in the Northeast part of the US/Canada where the most enthusiasm for wood burning now exists. Something like this,
**********************************Buy Your Masonry Heater Core Kit Now************************************************************
Choose the size desired - small , medium, or large.

Pick the door style you want - double, single and/or arched.

Add a Bench and/or Cook oven.

Kits include assembly directions, a door, 2 cleanouts, a damper, fiberglass wrapping material, expansion joint tape and refractory mortar.
*************************************************************************************************
Starting price for kits: small-$999, medium-$1299, or large-$1499.

(note: kits don't include material for the shell of your masonry heater.
Recommended size: small core up to 1000 sq ft house, medium core up to 1800 sq ft and large core up to 2500 sq ft.)

 

[DougA]

I think webby is a lot closer to the price for custom. By the numbers I have, $30k for a very simple job, much, much higher for complex work. The one guy I spoke to could do a core for me by late summer if I booked now and no chance of a full heater until next year. That surprised me.

I spent some time at a stoneyard today getting info on natural stone for the exterior and it's not far off my guess for top of the line. The way I look at it, a decent stove is $3K plus another $2K for chimney plus installation. My guess so far is that a really nice masonry heater built myself is $8K, including chimney. So, the difference is not a huge deal if you are comparing $$ and the fact that the heater is now the centerpiece of the great room and built to last forever. Labor is another story though. A couple of days to install a stove & chimney vs. a month or more but what the heck, better than watching TV.

I did voice my concerns about safety but to be fair, that applies the same for any combustion appliance. Someone died near me from CO poisoning when they ran a propane heater in the house and there have been a few house fires due to wood stoves locally also. A block from my son, a house burned down from a wood stove problem - no insurance. So sad.This winter has been a rough one and people are sick of the cold and sick to death of their heating bills. If I had a choice, I'd rather have a fire risk with 7" of refractory brick and stone separating me from the fire than 1/4" of steel. Maybe others might choose steel

On another issue, we have been talked out of doing anything near an exterior wall. One guy flat out told me he would not sell me anything if it was going where I had wanted it. He's saying that I would lose 40% of the heat if the back was against an exterior wall. That left no room for discussion. We think we'll re-do the area where the wood stove is now and it will then heat the entire area much more evenly. Downside is more work in changing walls.

 

[byQ]

Doug, $8k is a lot better than $30K. My whole house-in-progress is $30K and it includes a masonry heater! Sounds like you are really thinking about a masonry heater. I too like the idea of building something slowly, one piece at a time. I find this relaxing - like solving a major puzzle. I really get a lot of satisfaction in thinking outside-the-box. I didn't realize masonry heaters were so expensive to have built. It would be great to see pictures if you decide to go with a masonry heater. I've moved mine 3 times so far, luckily it has only been on paper.

 

[DevilsBrew]

Craigslist.

Check out rural masonry suppliers because sometimes they have sales.

Amish.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

I would be interested to know about the insurance side of a home built masonry heater. Since we see, with regularity, wood stove owners who couldn't get insurance on a UL approved, EPA spec stove if the instal was not done by a certified pro.. What happens when you call up Allstate and point out you intend to heat your home from a big pile of rocks in your living room, with a large fire in the middle, that you piled yourself but are sure is just fine because you got the plans from a trusted source on the internet..

If you don't think this could be an issue.. next time you talk to your agent, tell him you are getting ready to build a log home and want to find out about insurance before you start..

 

[weatherguy]

I would be interested to know about the insurance side of a home built masonry heater. Since we see, with regularity, wood stove owners who couldn't get insurance on a UL approved, EPA spec stove if the instal was not done by a certified pro.. What happens when you call up Allstate and point out you intend to heat your home from a big pile of rocks in your living room, with a large fire in the middle, that you piled yourself but are sure is just fine because you got the plans from a trusted source on the internet..

If you don't think this could be an issue.. next time you talk to your agent, tell him you are getting ready to build a log home and want to find out about insurance before you start..

I would think it would be the same as a fireplace, which is also a large fire in the middle of your living room in a big pile of rocks or bricks.

 

[webby3650]

I would think it would be the same as a fireplace, which is also a large fire in the middle of your living room in a big pile of rocks or bricks.

And I always find it strange that a fireplace is ok, almost always. But an insert or a stove is a big deal.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

I would think it would be the same as a fireplace, which is also a large fire in the middle of your living room in a big pile of rocks or bricks.

I doubt the insurance company is going to see it that way, for a couple reasons, not the least of which is the insurance view that a fireplace is ambiance, occasional thing, and a wood stove of any design is a heating appliance and used regularly.