Regency insert: to keep or not to keep...

[celticpiping]

Ok fellas , I need some advice/opinion here.

I have a Regency 2400 series insert, and it is my first woodstove. (1350 sq ft cape style home: circa 1913 in Maine,USA)

The first year we used it, (came with the house we bought), the wood I ordered turned out to be more green than we were led to believe, and so I wrestled all season to keep a fire going..very frustrating & made for sloooow & weak fires..low heat etc

My in laws have a smaller 80's Garrison, that's like 1/2 the size & outputs twice the heat! grrr

I began to think I really wanted a freestanding model, so I could benefit from more heat, rather than rely on a blower-based model.

If my goal is simply to offset my oil bill as much as possible, In general do you experienced folk find either style stove to be simply throw more heat?

Any comments are appreciated.
I didn't find an exact discussion previously had, and so I hope I'm not duplicating a thread.

Cheers!
Rich

 

[burntime]

Dry your wood. I have the hampton which is the exact same unit with a fancy face. I can easily heat a 1950s Wisconsin ranch of 1400 square feet with an exposed basement. If the wood is wet the heat output drop is considerable. I replaced an old 1980s version stove with a big firebox and can tell you that the hampton/regency puts out more heat and more even. Go buy 2 bundles of the expensive dry grocery store wood and light it up...once it gets going choke it down and you will probably be opening a window Good luck, you have a nice insert!

 

[elkimmeg]

I have to ask is it the stove or the venting system. Draft is the engine. Is your setup a direct connection or full liner with blocker plate?

Then there is the wet wood issue. How can you judge performance with wet wood? Even if you got a stove twice as big the fuel is compromised.

Now if you stacked it and it has dried for a year, then properly burn that stove before making a decision.

BTW if you burned wet wood all last year, better make sure that chimney and stove is cleaned out

BTW the regency is a decent quality stove

 

[hilly]

I've got the same stove and at one point last year I was trying to use up some wood that was out in the weather. For two days I tried to burn wood that was seasoned, but sat in the rain for a few months, and it was an excercise in futility. It burned poorly and didn't produce much heat so needless to say I left the exposed wood until it had a chance to redry.

When I use dry wood in the stove it cranks away, and it will throw out as much heat as I can handle. On an unrelated issue I bought a blower a month ago and can't believe how much more heat I get from the unit.

 

[celticpiping]

I cannot imagine the thing even being useful without the blower.
Seems like it is mainly decorative with out it...

I think that was a part of why I consider replacing it..
Rich

ps. I pulled the stove out yesterday, and was kind of surprised at the flue setup:
I disconnected the collar from the metal /flexible flue, and looked up in the chimney, and saw
that the metal flue was about a 8 foot section that just stuck up into the chimney.

I was expecting the metal flue to go all the way up to the opening, shows my ignorance.
There's not blocking plate to block off the chimney, but there were two rolls of insulating
bats stuffed into the openings on either side of the flue.

I've drawn a very detailed(harhar) version of what I saw..

 

[elkimmeg]

This is what I suspected, no block of plate and a direct connection into an outside exposed chimney with a cross sectional area to large to promote a good draft

so the issues are not stove related but
# 1wet wood
#2 week draft from direct connection
#3 no block off plate and probably compromised insulation allowing too much heat escaping up the chimney and trapping it to be moved into the living space
plus no top chimney cap either to slow down the heat escape

End result was the stove was doomed to fail


BTW when you bought the home did you have a home inspection? did you or the inspector ever think to call the local inspections office to confirm your stove was permitted and passed inspections?

If you burned wet wood in your current setup Better //better get that chimney, stove Damper shelf fully cleaned before putting a match in that stove.

The next surprise could be very unpleasent

 

[celticpiping]

I confess, I saw the stove installation,(which looked very nice), and ASSUMED that it was properly set up/
ohhh that word....

Funny, with my current wood, (dry cord)...the temperature was 72 in the l/r ,when I came down(6:10am) this am(after loading @ 11:30 lat night) and still had embers that caught a new stick easily with no effort..when I left for work.

So, the wood seems to have been a huge part of the equation(go figure).
I looked up into the flue while the stove was out, and given that I have never looked into a chimney,
I saw clean walls going up to the top...does that mean anything?

To properly run the thing, is it assumed that I install a blocking plate of some sort to secure/support the flexible pipe with to prevent cold air from coming down?

Thanks fellows for the help.
Rich

 

[webbie]

Ha, Elk - he can put a match, as long as there is no kindling!
:coolgrin:

One of the articles I saw in my old 1984 mag last night was about how, if people burned and installed correctly, a LOT of the problems of wood burning (including the pollution and smoke) would be solved. I could not agree more. Proper designs is important, but the other factors are even more important.

The real proof becomes the surface temperature of a single wall portion of the stove front, side or top. If you cannot get 500 degree plus easily, you will not get any heat. If you can't get heat...well, see the other answers. BTW, if that is an insert, a blower would help once you get everything else squared away (if you don't already have one).

 

[webbie]

Yeah, clean walls are cool. You may have burned the wood OK, but all the energy was used to burn the moisture off. I had a retail store for 20 years, and the first thing I would tell "no heat" customers was to take some wood from my pile in the back. It worked every time...I rarely saw them again.

Always remember the four horsemen:
1. Stove
2. Operator
3. Wood
4. Chimney (installation)

 

[celticpiping]

oh, there's a blower alright..
And, once she's going, you can't keep yer hand in front of the thing or it'l cook!

I worry about the blower unit going bad, and being stranded with little heat, which is partly what prompted the discussion...
though I'm sure they build em tough..
Rich

 

[MrGriz]

Well, now we know that the stove is not the culprit and have found several contributing factors.

IMO, in order to do it right, you need to fully line the chimney with a SS liner. Seal the top where it exits the chimney and make an air tight blockoff plate where it passes throught the flue (there's a good article in the wiki about that). This will increase the draft of the stove considerably and be a much safer set up. Sealing the liner at the top and bottom creates a dead air space, which keeps heat and air from escaping up the chimney. The dead air space also helps to insulate the set up a bit, keeping the liner and flue gasses warmer and lessening the build up of creosote. This also ensures that any flue gasses are transmitted out of the stove, up the chimney and out of the house; without the possibility of backing up into the living space.

Once this is done and you're burning with well seasoned, dry wood, you should see a dramatic increase in heat output, performance and safety. Don't forget to have the chimney cleaned before lining.

Welcome to hearth.com and don't be afraid to ask as you go.

 

[Stevebass4]

i have a direct connect and no blower on my insert and my house can heat up to almost 80 with dry wood

 

[budman]

i have a direct connect and no blower on my insert and my house can heat up to almost 80 with dry wood

Steve PLEASE get that liner in for you and your family's sake. :down:

 

[Stevebass4]

i have a direct connect and no blower on my insert and my house can heat up to almost 80 with dry wood

Steve PLEASE get that liner in for you and your family's sake. :down:

it's in next year's budget and it's just me here oh and a few cats - as mentioned the manual says a direct connect it just fine and i just cleaned everything yesterday

she's ready to go

 

[budman]

i have a direct connect and no blower on my insert and my house can heat up to almost 80 with dry wood

Steve PLEASE get that liner in for you and your family's sake. :down:

it's in next year's budget and it's just me here oh and a few cats - as mentioned the manual says a direct connect it just fine and i just cleaned everything yesterday

she's ready to go

Jusy looking out for you pal. %-P

 

[Stevebass4]

Thanks sent a PM to Megnaflex to get an idea of the cost - i should just order it

 

[celticpiping]

Huh, so I have a "direct connect". Cool.
Now I know what to call it!.. if nothing else..
Did some surfing, and if I'm looking at the right stuff, it appears that
this might be what I'm needing..

Flex Chimney lining

 

[hilly]

I'm not sure if all 2400's are the same, but you may be able to use a 5.5" liner (that's what I've got) which may cost less and may be easier to install.

 

[webbie]

Folks should remember (we certainly have talked about it before) that a "direct connect" done by the manual and by the NFPA code at the time of installation is 100% legal and not in any way unsafe! The codes evolve and things change, but this is not a Consumer Product Safety Commission Issue - it is just continuous improvement in an attempt to make appliances function better, etc.

But if someone has a bad draft, lining will definitely help. A tight seal at the damper will help in either case.

In short, appliances must be installed to the code or listing in effect at the time of installation...and there is no requirement to bring older installs up to the current code (this is optional).

 

[MrGriz]

I don't think anyone said it was a requirement. I'm pretty sure it will increase the performance of this set up, which was the original intent of the thread (wasn't it). There's no question that a direct connect done to the manual is acceptable and safe; it just may not work as good as a full liner sealed at the top and bottom.

Trust me, I'm not going to champion something just because it's in a code book somewhere. Some things just seem to make sense, especially when you know the why behind them. When I do things myself, I tend to "overbuild" them.

 

[elkimmeg]

Stuffing insulation for the block of plate is not to code then or now ,so the installation is not up to code and probably suffers performance losses because of it.

Code even in 1987 is quite specific requiring a block of plate for direct connections.

At no prior point did I say there was a code issue, but that these issues cut into performance and draft

 

[BrotherBart]

To heck with safer than direct connect. A full liner is just enough easier to clean to make it worth many times the incremental cost. Especially if you install a direct connect the way you are supposed to install one. That being knocking a hole in the back of the chimney at the top of the direct connection for cleaning. Hmmm... Two hundred more for fifteen more feet of liner or blast a hole in the back of my chimney. Give me a minute to decide here...

 

[webbie]

Yeah, it's just tough sometimes to follow along with the thread - I get to forgetting what the problem was....wasn't it wood and the lack of a block off? I'll have to read it again. I guess my technique for problem solving is to start with the obvious, simplest and cheapest....and then go with the extras. Like making certain the washer is plugged in before you rip the control panel apart!

So I'd start with better wood, and making sure the unit was sealed well at the damper with a metal plate. If that solved all the problems and the stove was a "keeper", the lining would only improve things from there......so he'd be happy and then happier.

I always liked the way a good car mechanic approached problems.....by eliminating what the problem WAS NOT little by little. A bad mechanic would just say "replace the computer" - when you actually needed a head gasket.

 

[celticpiping]

Heh, sorry lads, that I let this thread morph into something else...but I'm learning a few things along the way, so I sorta kept it goin..

Yeah, original point was that I had such a terrible time of it last year with the stove, but really I think it was almost totally about the wood.
I have fired it once , the other night and she kept the house warm right thru till morning(a fairly drafty house at that).
So, it could be that I'll simply keep the Regency, and pursue some blocking plate for now, until such time as I can shell out the $400 - $500.00 for a liner.
I seem to have good draft, and it burns hot, so maybe the plate will enhance things..and make thing safer.

I'll search online here for block off plate acquisition/manufacturing..

Thanks all, it's been a good discussion!

Cheers!
Rich