Regency Wood Insert-Not enough Heat

[Flying Pigeon]

Here is the background to my dilemma

1. My house was built in 1910. The fireplace was never properly designed with the opening to the room completely out of ratio with the flue size. So smoke tended to come into the room through the huge opening. I know that this was an original mistake, because, incredibly, I have the builder blueprints to the house.

2. The house is completely fieldstone. So trying to dig into the masonry of the house and fix this issue is really not practical. So what we did instead was get a Regency insert. The largest one. This of course solved the smoking issue but I have to say I am really disappointed with the amount of heat it puts out, or should I say, DOESN'T put out. It doesn't seem to be blowing enough hot air compared t the amount of wood that goes in. It only heats one room of the house by a few degrees. The wood by the way, is all well seasoned oak and maple.

3. As I said above, the fireplace that the insert went into is LARGE. Too Large. So there was ample space around the insert when it went in.

4. I notice now that the fireplace hearth/vertical stones and brick around the insert are all quite hot. Which must be quite the feat because there is a substantial air gap between those bricks and the insert. But this tells me that not enough heat is being maintained in the structure of the insert and a substantial amount is heading up the flue and.or radiated from the body of the insert. So there is less heat available to be vented into the living space of the house.

5. So, in short, is there anyway I can make this more efficient ? Will packing insulation around the insert increase the retained heat in the insert and therefore the available heat to be fanned into the room? Will it help in an MEANINGFUL way?

6. Additionally would cutting a metal plate to go over the insert, which permits only the flue pipe, to pass help? Again, will it be meaningful?

7. Anything else that would help?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

[DAKSY]

Put in the block off plate. You’re losing heat up the flue. Have verified the moisture content of your “well-seasoned oak & maple?”

 

[danham]

Here is the background to my dilemma

1. My house was built in 1910. The fireplace was never properly designed with the opening to the room completely out of ratio with the flue size. So smoke tended to come into the room through the huge opening. I know that this was an original mistake, because, incredibly, I have the builder blueprints to the house.

2. The house is completely fieldstone. So trying to dig into the masonry of the house and fix this issue is really not practical. So what we did instead was get a Regency insert. The largest one. This of course solved the smoking issue but I have to say I am really disappointed with the amount of heat it puts out, or should I say, DOESN'T put out. It doesn't seem to be blowing enough hot air compared t the amount of wood that goes in. It only heats one room of the house by a few degrees. The wood by the way, is all well seasoned oak and maple.

3. As I said above, the fireplace that the insert went into is LARGE. Too Large. So there was ample space around the insert when it went in.

4. I notice now that the fireplace hearth/vertical stones and brick around the insert are all quite hot. Which must be quite the feat because there is a substantial air gap between those bricks and the insert. But this tells me that not enough heat is being maintained in the structure of the insert and a substantial amount is heading up the flue and.or radiated from the body of the insert. So there is less heat available to be vented into the living space of the house.

5. So, in short, is there anyway I can make this more efficient ? Will packing insulation around the insert increase the retained heat in the insert and therefore the available heat to be fanned into the room? Will it help in an MEANINGFUL way?

6. Additionally would cutting a metal plate to go over the insert, which permits only the flue pipe, to pass help? Again, will it be meaningful?

7. Anything else that would help?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Is this an outside wall chimney? If yes, adding Roxul insulation around the insert will definitely make a difference. But as has been said, a block off plate is mandatory for this setup, preferably with more Roxul above it.

-dan

 

[Flying Pigeon]

1. The wood has been aged for YEARS. It's very dry.
2. Yes it is an outside wall.

 

[begreen]

Right now it sounds like the insert is heating outdoors almost as much as it is heating the house. Use Roxul board or batt or kaolwool blanket to insulate the sides and rear of the fireplace cavity. Then as Daksy posted, add an insulated block-off plate in the damper area. Doing these steps will make a major improvement in heat output.

Why damper seal is needed, block off plate install

Should fireplace inserts and hearth stoves have a metal sealing plate installed at the damper area? Here is the simple answer. It is almost impossible to correctly seal most insert panels to the fireplace front. A lot of air can get through them - this works both ways.....hurts the draft when...

www.hearth.com

 

[Rhodesholar]

Hello all. Registered for this site as this is the exact insert and issue I was having.

As OP stated my insert like his is basically sitting outside. I had blistering cold air coming out all around my insert and I do have both a top and bottom block off plates. I scoured the internet and found 100% conflicting views on my next statement.

There is no way to get to the back or the sides of the walls behind the insert would have to be completely removed. This was not an option. What I ended up doing was purchasing bulk ceramic fiber insulation and insulating around my insert but I left the top uninsulated for now. It took 30lbs of insulation just to do around my insert. This completely stopped the cold air draft and that is no longer an issue.

I fired it up and monitored every 15 minutes with my laser temp gun to make sure I was not even coming close overfire. I went from about 225 coming out of my blower vents to about 360. Also the insert remained heating for several hours after it went to coals where in a half hour or so the temperature in my house would already be dropping.

The max temp at the top of the recric tubes which was the hottest point I could find was about 580 or so. Please correct me if I am wrong but that is nowhere near over fire. I do however always run my blower on auto and max so perhapst this is why I see the temps I do. I can test with the blower off and see what I get up to. I also figured leaving the top uninsulated it is still basically sitting outside and allowing airflow over it.

So by insulating I saw a dramatic improvement in temperature, total draft suppression and a huge length of residual heating time with nothing as a far as I am aware of an overfire condition.

Finally this insert is heating the way I imagined it should.

Now if someone wants to chime in and say I should not have insulation all around the insert and I did something wrong I am all ears and nothing is written in stone.

Just trying to pass along what worked for me and may work for the OP.

 

[AstroBoy]

This thread is timely for me. We're looking at getting a Regency insert installed, and just had someone from a local dealer here today to make measurements. Our fireplace is masonry, on an outside wall. Since I had seen this thread, I asked about insulating the fireplace interior walls before putting in the insert. The person from the dealer said that they never do that. No need, he said - the back of the unit doesn't get that hot. He said I would be the first customer they ever had to request something like that. He was very focused on drafts (which is OK, that's an issue too) and said that they would put some insulation around the flue so that we wouldn't be losing air up the chimney. That's good, but it seems like it's not either-or. He seemed pretty adamant that radiant heat from the back of the insert into the brick fireplace was a non-issue.

I had been ready to pull the trigger on this, but that interaction has me second-guessing this now. Curious to hear others' thoughts. (Not to hijack this thread, but seems related!)

 

[Rhodesholar]

I also do not want to hijack to he OPs thread but this is all seems relevant to his initial post and may be helpful as that is my intent. So let's look at this logically. Basically the OP and myself have our inserts sitting in masonry outside wall enclosure. If we take our inserts out of the equation we would still have basically and uninsulated masonry space. So I can not understand how this space cannot or should not be insulated. How can insulating this space be anymore detrimental then an insert installed in an inside wall sitting at say 70 degrees ambient temperature all the time?

Also for the record I am very happy with my Regency insert and I have had it for years.

 

[Bad LP]

I can’t see a down side to placing proper insulation on the back of the fireplace in an exterior wall application.

 

[kborndale]

I'm sure there are some competent dealers out there, but I would take what they say with a grain of salt as most of them are clueless.

 

[spudman99]

I hope I am not talking down to the OP as that is not my intent. The effort you can take to improve your situation is simple heat dynamics.

Install a block off plate. That is mandatory. Heat rises. Your insert gets hot. In an enclosed space the heat will rise up the chimney around the liner (or hopefully insulated liner). Remember heat likes to warm up cold air and not the reverse - that is physics.

Second, install rockwool around the insert and against the side and rear walls. This too will retain heat in the fireplace (no filled with the insert). If the sides are visible to the room (no shroud to cover the opening), then others have painted the insulation with some black high heat spray paint, or installed it behind a concrete backer board also painted black and affixed to stand off the wall to allow the insulation between the wall, board and insert. Either way, you are placing a temperature break between the hot and cold surfaces.

By retaining heat in the former fireplace, the insert will remain warmer, and either burn hotter or longer. That is what you want.

My insert has all of the above. I can maintain a constant 500 deg temp near the top of the unit for 10 hours with the blower on low. I dont know what Regency Model you have and how robust the fan is. For sure it is better than the meager one on the BK Insert. Your fan moving the cold air from the room over the now warmer insert should dramatically improve the overall efficiency and enjoyment.

 

[tadmaz]

360F coming out of the blower seems good to me.

 

[danham]

I should have mentioned that our previous house had a Regency insert installed in an outside wall. Roxul and a tight blockoff plate made a huge difference and we never had any issues with the insulation.

-dan