Replace or repair old stove

[Mischa Shashumshkavich]

we were given an older woodstove made by C e m i , (or Gemi?), and inside,the back of the stove is angled , i will try and describe, front---> |__\ <-----back.....the angled piece looks to be a steel plate with welds on either side from top to bottom,the weld broke on the bottom right corner, and is sticking out about a 1/4 ".....is this something that i should have re-welded? has anyone ever heard of this happening?

 

[mellow]

CEMI, most likely a CEMI II, junk it, as you will not be able to hook up a liner to it. Nice stoves back in the day, but are about impossible to hook up a liner to due to the exhaust design. I would not recommend installing it as it would be a slammer install.

A previous thread on this insert: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cemi-concept-ii-installation-question.81042/

 

[Mischa Shashumshkavich]

if you will pardon my newbishness, what is a slammer install?

 

[Mischa Shashumshkavich]

if you will pardon my newbishness, what is a slammer install?

nevermind mellow, i just used the search function and 400 different posts came up.......thank you

 

[mellow]

The thread I linked to also has a good explanation of it.

 

[Mischa Shashumshkavich]

The thread I linked to also has a good explanation of it.

yup, i read it (along w/ a bunch of other posts).....and i am getting nervous, with all the things i didn't know.....but am glad to learn.... stove is already installed.... 2 years now ......by a mason who i thought knew what he was doing.......now, i'm not so sure...

 

[Grisu]

If I had a slammer install I would certainly be nervous, too. I would definitively replace it with something that is safe to burn. No need to risk your life and home. You have a whole summer to get a new (or used) stove/insert and an appropriate liner.

 

[Mischa Shashumshkavich]

yes indeed, i think the mason was going by standards from the 1940's......he is an old timing man who likes to murder the english language....hell of a nice guy who does know a hell of a lot....certified and everything......what year was he certified? i will ask......it seemed like a godsend at the time( financial reasons) because the stove and work were free,and i've prob. saved quite a bit money not burning oil.....but i've got some inspecting to do

 

[bholler]

Do you mean he is a certified sweep? And he installed an insert slammer style? He should have his certification pulled for sure if he had done a direct connect that is one thing (i would never install direct connect or recomend doing so) but it does still meet code.

 

[begreen]

Check with your inspecting authority east of the river. You may find that slammer installs are no longer permissible in your state.

 

[Mischa Shashumshkavich]

Do you mean he is a certified sweep? And he installed an insert slammer style? He should have his certification pulled for sure if he had done a direct connect that is one thing (i would never install direct connect or recomend doing so) but it does still meet code.

certified mason.....i'll inquire about sweep certification......

Do you mean he is a certified sweep? And he installed an insert slammer style? He should have his certification pulled for sure if he had done a direct connect that is one thing (i would never install direct connect or recomend doing so) but it does still meet code.

i will have to check, i think he is certified sweep, and stone mason.....and i think he did a direct connect...( no fireplace where i live, stove---boot--vertical pipe---L---horizontal pipe---into ceramic/cemented insert in chimney)..... i didn't even know they were going to install the thing, i come home one day and there's a woodstove in the house.....which i've really grown to love....i just want to make sure it's all up to snuff....

 

[bholler]

Oh well that is neither a direct connect nor a slammer that is just a wood stove install. Post some pics so we can see how the install was done but it probably isn't worth trying to fix it.

 

[mellow]

Im interested in seeing the boot on that CEMI.

 

[begreen]

We need to see the setup and problem to better answer your question. Take some pictures of the inside of the stove showing the broken weld and the outside showing the installation. Post them here for us to see. It may be repairable and if safely installed will provide some heat, though it may eat wood a lot faster and dirtier than a modern stove. Hard to tell though without seeing what the problem is.

If though the intent is to heat 24/7 the whole winter I too would advocate for getting a more modern, cleaner burning stove. You will save fuel and your neighborhood will breathe easier.

 

[Mischa Shashumshkavich]

for sure i want to get a newer stove, and although i know i am saving at least $1000.00 a winter on oil, it is very hard to actually put that ''saved'' money aside.....if i can manage to do that, maybe sell a few cords of wood,and find a few odd arbor jobs i may be able to save enough by next winter.....what i'd like to do is get a video of the inside of chimney to see what it needs(if anything)....and since i'm a such a newbie, please bear with me as i learn the terms/lingo.....

 

[begreen]

Sounds like a plan. Start with getting the chimney safe, then fix the stove for this season, make sure it is properly and safely installed. Then sock away the savings for a new stove in the future.

 

[Mischa Shashumshkavich]

We need to see the setup and problem to better answer your question. Take some pictures of the inside of the stove showing the broken weld and the outside showing the installation. Post them here for us to see. It may be repairable and if safely installed will provide some heat, though it may eat wood a lot faster and dirtier than a modern stove. Hard to tell though without seeing what the problem is.

If though the intent is to heat 24/7 the whole winter I too would advocate for getting a more modern, cleaner burning stove. You will save fuel and your neighborhood will breathe easier.

i will try and borrow a phone to do that......the pipes coming from stove are about 2 feet away from wall, the stove itself is raised on a square of a bunch of bricks with a piece of steel on top of the bricks....also put steel baffles on walls near/behind the stove.....what i was most worried about was where the stove pipe enters the chimney, worried about heat transfer into wall.....but i try to keep the stove burning low enough that i can place my hand on the pipe where it meets the wall, without burning hand.....and chimney has been cleaned 3 times....once before install, once each winter after install....

 

[Mischa Shashumshkavich]

the funny thing is that it heats better than the ''modern'' oil heater setup that we used to have to use......seems way more consistent.....and comfortable......the oil heat was okay,when it was on....once the heater stopped,the house would cool pretty quickly though.....

 

[begreen]

i will try and borrow a phone to do that......the pipes coming from stove are about 2 feet away from wall, the stove itself is raised on a square of a bunch of bricks with a piece of steel on top of the bricks....also put steel baffles on walls near/behind the stove.....what i was most worried about was where the stove pipe enters the chimney, worried about heat transfer into wall.....but i try to keep the stove burning low enough that i can place my hand on the pipe where it meets the wall, without burning hand.....and chimney has been cleaned 3 times....once before install, once each winter after install....

The installation needs to be safe under the worst of conditions, not just "trying to keep it burning low enough". That means paying close attention to and honoring proper clearances. Same for the pipe and chimney thimble. Is there a UL label on the back of the stove stating these clearances? If so, have they been followed?

 

[Mischa Shashumshkavich]

The installation needs to be safe under the worst of conditions, not just "trying to keep it burning low enough". That means paying close attention to and honoring proper clearances. Same for the pipe and chimney thimble. Is there a UL label on the back of the stove stating these clearances? If so, have they been followed?

no label on stove, but i did check clearance required for my neck of the woods(18 inches) and it meets those.....i will def. try and get you some pics.... esp. for the area i'm concerned about....i'm assuming he followed code as he has installed many stoves and built many brick ovens for residentials as well as commercial use.....but i won't stop worrying until i know for sure..... and,ever since one of my co-workers told me a story of how he burned down his buddies vacation home in Vt......said the balsa wood figurines on a shelf next to stove pipe where it enters wall/chimney caught fire...it prob. didn't help that he packed the stove full, opened the air vents all the way, then left for the whole day.....came back to fire trucks and a pile of rubble and ash.....keeping balsa wood near stove pipe not a great idea.

 

[mellow]

How is your draft with that setup, do you get smoke coming into the house when you open the doors to load it?

 

[bholler]

no label on stove, but i did check clearance required for my neck of the woods(18 inches) and it meets those.....i will def. try and get you some pics.... esp. for the area i'm concerned about....i'm assuming he followed code as he has installed many stoves and built many brick ovens for residentials as well as commercial use.....but i won't stop worrying until i know for sure..... and,ever since one of my co-workers told me a story of how he burned down his buddies vacation home in Vt......said the balsa wood figurines on a shelf next to stove pipe where it enters wall/chimney caught fire...it prob. didn't help that he packed the stove full, opened the air vents all the way, then left for the whole day.....came back to fire trucks and a pile of rubble and ash.....keeping balsa wood near stove pipe not a great idea

That 18" is to the bare stove pipe if there is no ul label the stove needs to be 36" from combustibles. If you have a proper heat shield that can go down to 24". The most common problem and one that starts many fires is the thimble. You need i believe (correct me if i am wrong on this guys i don't have my book here) 18" of non combustibles around that thimble also. And by burning it low you could be making it more dangerous because you are making lots of creosote when you burn low which could cause a chimney fire that is when those clearances are really important.[/quote]

 

[Mischa Shashumshkavich]

How is your draft with that setup, do you get smoke coming into the house when you open the doors to load it?

.........................draft isn't too bad.....but i usually keep one window in the same room opened just a little( maybe 1/4'' or less) the only time we get smoke,is when starting a new fire....well,not me, but when others start a new one.....

How is your draft with that setup, do you get smoke coming into the house when you open the doors to load it?

..................draft seems good, but i do try and leave one window in the same room open about 1/4"(or less) ...seems to help with draft.....the only time i notice any smoke is when someone else (tries) to start a new fire and can't stop opening the door to check on it.....when i start a fire i usually will use a top down method, but i seem to be the only one willing to use this method....

 

[Mischa Shashumshkavich]

That 18" is to the bare stove pipe if there is no ul label the stove needs to be 36" from combustibles. If you have a proper heat shield that can go down to 24". The most common problem and one that starts many fires is the thimble. You need i believe (correct me if i am wrong on this guys i don't have my book here) 18" of non combustibles around that thimble also. And by burning it low you could be making it more dangerous because you are making lots of creosote when you burn low which could cause a chimney fire that is when those clearances are really important.

[/quote]
.............there is only a ceramic pipe cemented into wall/chimney and a steel ring around the stove pipe where it meets the wall....i doesn't look like a thimble(or what pics i've seen after looking up thimble)

 

[Mischa Shashumshkavich]

....and let me just say thanks to all y'all for being so helpful (and patient).....i really appreciate all the responses so far... please bear with me, for i still have much to learn!!