Replacing a VC Defiant with .... ?

[XmasTreefarmer]

First post here - have been watching the forum for a while now and have learned that you use VC for Vermont Castings and I know what E-W loading is vs N-S!

I've been burning my trusty old Defiant for the last 30 years as my full-time heat source. Got it new in 1979, used it one year and then I was moving every few years and living in town and not using it, and then started to use it again when we got settled here on the farm back in 1989. Well, after all those years of burning, my fireback finally cracked. That has got me thinking about getting a new stove: - It might be nice to see the fire, - it might be nice to maybe burn a little less wood.

I have not started shopping yet - will take that up in earnest in January, but would appreciate your thoughts on two things that keep coming up in my head.

1. Any idea how efficient the Defiant is? If I guess at 50% and the newer EPA stoves are say 75%, will I see a noticeable difference in the amount of wood I burn in a season? Currently burning about 4 cords - Spring, Winter, and Fall. Mostly Oak, Hickory, Red Elm. Our furnace almost never runs. I run it what I consider fairly hot - 300 degrees on the pipe at 1' above the stove and 500 degrees on the stove top - still produces quite a bit of creosote and there's always smoke coming out of the chimney.

2. After all these years with the Defiant - geez, almost half my life with that stove - I feel like I HAVE to have a left side load. I'm used to it, I have my wood storage built-in to my brick chimney on that side, my tools are hanging there, etc.

I'm obviously having Change Anxiety! Any help with those two questions would be appreciated and any other counselling would be great too!

P.S. I did download Defiant - From Top to Bottom and Back Again ... In case I just can't change.

 

[Woody Stover]

Oh, you'll change, and love it when you are using 1/3 to 1/2 less wood and getting longer burns!
While we are trying to think of stoves that side-load (my preference as well,) how about some details on what you want to heat...sq.ft, room layout, insulation and sealing weatherization levels, stove siting and so on. If you can supply it, a floor plan drawing will help us visualize everything more easily. Any thoughts on cat vs. non-cat yet?

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

First post here - have been watching the forum for a while now and have learned that you use VC for Vermont Castings and I know what E-W loading is vs N-S!

I've been burning my trusty old Defiant for the last 30 years as my full-time heat source. Got it new in 1979, used it one year and then I was moving every few years and living in town and not using it, and then started to use it again when we got settled here on the farm back in 1989. Well, after all those years of burning, my fireback finally cracked. That has got me thinking about getting a new stove: - It might be nice to see the fire, - it might be nice to maybe burn a little less wood.

I have not started shopping yet - will take that up in earnest in January, but would appreciate your thoughts on two things that keep coming up in my head.

1. Any idea how efficient the Defiant is? If I guess at 50% and the newer EPA stoves are say 75%, will I see a noticeable difference in the amount of wood I burn in a season? Currently burning about 4 cords - Spring, Winter, and Fall. Mostly Oak, Hickory, Red Elm. Our furnace almost never runs. I run it what I consider fairly hot - 300 degrees on the pipe at 1' above the stove and 500 degrees on the stove top - still produces quite a bit of creosote and there's always smoke coming out of the chimney.

2. After all these years with the Defiant - geez, almost half my life with that stove - I feel like I HAVE to have a left side load. I'm used to it, I have my wood storage built-in to my brick chimney on that side, my tools are hanging there, etc.

I'm obviously having Change Anxiety! Any help with those two questions would be appreciated and any other counselling would be great too!

P.S. I did download Defiant - From Top to Bottom and Back Again ... In case I just can't change.

I felt the same way after heating with a trusty Resolute for more 2/3 of my life. I LOVE top loading.

Well, on year three of making the change, I can tell you that I still miss the comfort and convenience of top loading, that forgiving burning system and thermostat, and big heat from a compact beautiful stove.

Here's what's better: A lovely clear picture of the fire. Almost no smoke when using dry wood. Maybe using less wood, but, my old house is drafty, so I have to run her a lot harder.

I didn't really have a choice, so I just did it. I miss the old girl, but, I really like the new setup as well. Except for the part where I have to get on my hands and knees and stick my hands into the firebox to reload.

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

ED 3000 - Thanks so much for your post. It's helpful to hear from someone who also used a stove for a long time and made the change.

You've also got me thinking about top loading! Never done it, never even seen someone use a top loader. Have added looking at top loaders to my list.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

Oh, you'll change, and love it when you are using 1/3 to 1/2 less wood and getting longer burns!
While we are trying to think of stoves that side-load (my preference as well,) how about some details on what you want to heat...sq.ft, room layout, insulation and sealing weatherization levels, stove siting and so on. If you can supply it, a floor plan drawing will help us visualize everything more easily. Any thoughts on cat vs. non-cat yet?

Thanks for your comments! I'll be glad to provide that information - I will welcome any and all advice!

Heating 2,550 sq feet. Also run my furnace fan constantly, so am pulling "warm air" into my "cold air" returns, running it through my furnace filter, and then dumping some heat into the basement through the "heat runs" which are all exposed down there. Basement is walk out on one side, with windows, and into the hill on the other - temp will be 56 - 58 degrees all winter. No heat is supplied to the basement.

House - 1 1/2 story, with a full basement. Insulated and tight - draft free, good windows. R-20 in the walls, R-54 in the ceiling/roof, wrapped in Tyvek before siding. We do have lots of glass, so I do need a bit more heat than you might think. We do have insulated blinds on all windows that we close at night.

Chimney - Central brick chimney that is exposed the full height of the living room. Poured flue - 8", inside chimney block, and faced with brick. Lot's of thermal mass.

Floor plan - First floor is open to the second floor for about 1/2 of the length of the house. We run no fans to circulate air (other than the furnace fan) and all rooms stay warm. Certainly cooler in the rooms that are furthest away from the stove and around corners, but we've been comfortable for 30 years!

History - This is probably the most important piece of information I can provide.

Fall and Spring - When the house drops to around 65 degrees, I build my famous "three- piecer". Kindle the fire, add 3 medium sized splits. Get it up to temp and let it burn and then go out. That will get the house up to 70 - 72 and it will be back down to 65 in the morning.
Winter - moderate temps - 30's, I'll build a small fire and add wood to it every 3 or 4 hours. If it gets into the teens and 20's, I'll stoke it a bit more and add wood every 3 or 4 hours using larger splits. 10 degrees or below, I will actually fill the stove and load it fully every 5 or 6 hours.

Stove Temps - As I've started to look at new stoves, I was concerned that they seemed to burn so hot! I did a check on the Defiant over the last few days and I keep the stack temp at around 300 degrees. You can see my thermometer in the photo - it's about 12" above the stove top and is magnetic, so measuring the surface temp. I then placed another thermometer on the griddle of the stove and that runs around 500 degrees, so maybe the new stoves are not that much hotter than the Defiant.

Wood Use - About 4 cords a year. I burn almost no LP to heat the house. The furnace only runs when we take a trip or are gone for more than 15 hours or so and that is rare. I burn well seasoned Oak, Hickory, Cherry, and Red Elm - some Black Walnut, but that is not my favorite wood.

And you asked about cat vs non-cat - I'm leaning towards non-cat. There is just something about having a part like that to look at, wonder if it needs to be replaced, and then having to buy the replacement that doesn't appeal to me. I understand that a cat stove *might* be a better choice for me. You can see that my challenge is to keep a small enough fire going except in very cold temperatures and we only have those conditions fairly infrequently these days. Going back 30 years we did have those extended below 0 periods, sometimes dipping into the -10's, -20's ... we just don't see that any more.

Whew - that might be more than you wanted to know

 

[Joyboy]

Nice room!

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Go new on the defient. The newer style is way better. Going in cat mode saves on the wood usage. Its pretty to look at also with a great view always

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

Nice room!

Thank you! We planned and planned this house saving pictures of things we liked from magazines and things and then got together with a good house designer and it all came together so nicely. Behind the chimney is our eating area, to the left is the kitchen with an island with seating, to the right is our "sunspace" with the south facing patio doors and skylights.

Built the house myself with the help of two friends who are professional carpenters - otherwise it might not still be standing! Hired out the masonry work, plumbing, HVAC, and foundation and the three of us did the rest over about 9 months while I was working full-time. I was only 39, so I could pull that off back then! Not any more.

The whole time we were building we lived in the basement - our two girls still talk about that. They talk about it fondly now, as an adventure ... at the time .. not so much!

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

Go new on the defient. The newer style is way better. Going in cat mode saves on the wood usage. Its pretty to look at also with a great view always

I have such a history with the Defiant, it does seem like a logical way to go. I will look at them and then will have to see what I think about the top load (used to side-load on the old Defiant) and going cat. If you have a Defiant, could you comment on how you like the top load? I can go to a stove shop near by and see one in action and I'm sure they will let me drop some wood in - but would sure like to hear how you like it.

I picture it sort of crashing to the bottom of the stove, landing crooked, sending up a shower of sparks, etc. I try really hard to do things right the first time - I really want to avoid buying a new stove, then not liking it, and having to buy yet another stove and sell the old one. Some folks don't seem to mind that - it would really bug me!

 

[Joyboy]

Thank you! We planned and planned this house saving pictures of things we liked from magazines and things and then got together with a good house designer and it all came together so nicely. Behind the chimney is our eating area, to the left is the kitchen with an island with seating, to the right is our "sunspace" with the south facing patio doors and skylights.

Built the house myself with the help of two friends who are professional carpenters - otherwise it might not still be standing! Hired out the masonry work, plumbing, HVAC, and foundation and the three of us did the rest over about 9 months while I was working full-time. I was only 39, so I could pull that off back then! Not any more.

The whole time we were building we lived in the basement - our two girls still talk about that. They talk about it fondly now, as an adventure ... at the time .. not so much!

I understand the adventure part. We just got done doing a forced remodel after a house fire. We are extremely happy with how things turned out but there was some bad days in there to.

There are some extremely good options for stoves now days. Both cat or noncat. I think with the room you have, a soapstone or enamel cast iron stove would look great. There are several that offer really nice fireview as well. A modern noncat stove will probably extend your burn time by several hours and still be quite controllable.

The sky’s the limit for that room. Take your time deciding.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Top loading stove is what i have. It makes it soooooo easy to fill the box to the brim
I NEVER use the front of the stove
I have learned to split squarish so its easy to pack it and get great burn times overnight. Top loading is the way to go. Its super easy and no bendi g down or being on your knees. Its so the way to go

 

[Joyboy]

Top loading stove is what i have. It makes it soooooo easy to fill the box to the brim
I NEVER use the front of the stove
I have learned to split squarish so its easy to pack it and get great burn times overnight. Top loading is the way to go. Its super easy and no bendi g down or being on your knees. Its so the way to go

Top load was easy for my last stove but I didn’t like the smoke spillage we got.

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

Top loading stove is what i have. It makes it soooooo easy to fill the box to the brim
I NEVER use the front of the stove
I have learned to split squarish so its easy to pack it and get great burn times overnight. Top loading is the way to go. Its super easy and no bendi g down or being on your knees. Its so the way to go

Thanks for the great information. Very interesting how you split to get a compact fuel load! I'm not getting any younger, so the no being down on your knees sounds nice. Question - so you do have to start the fire from the front, correct? Then after that you use only the top load.

There's a couple of places near me where they have some top loading VC stove models hooked up and working - I'll have to check those out and actually load some wood. I bet if I arrange it with one of the sales folks, I can come in as soon as they open and watch the starting process too.

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

I understand the adventure part. We just got done doing a forced remodel after a house fire. We are extremely happy with how things turned out but there was some bad days in there to.

There are some extremely good options for stoves now days. Both cat or noncat. I think with the room you have, a soapstone or enamel cast iron stove would look great. There are several that offer really nice fireview as well. A modern noncat stove will probably extend your burn time by several hours and still be quite controllable.

The sky’s the limit for that room. Take your time deciding.

Oh boy - glad to hear that the remodel project is completed and that you are so happy with the result!

I am leaning towards a soapstone or enameled cast iron stove. I think the look of either of those stoves would be so nice. And not having to stove black or paint the cast iron would be sweet. And thanks for your comment on taking my time on the decision - I sure will. This decision and purchase will almost certainly be my last stove - if it lasts the 30 years that the Defiant did, I'd be 97 years old!! LOL!

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Thanks for your comments! I'll be glad to provide that information - I will welcome any and all advice!

Heating 2,550 sq feet. Also run my furnace fan constantly, so am pulling "warm air" into my "cold air" returns, running it through my furnace filter, and then dumping some heat into the basement through the "heat runs" which are all exposed down there. Basement is walk out on one side, with windows, and into the hill on the other - temp will be 56 - 58 degrees all winter. No heat is supplied to the basement.

House - 1 1/2 story, with a full basement. Insulated and tight - draft free, good windows. R-20 in the walls, R-54 in the ceiling/roof, wrapped in Tyvek before siding. We do have lots of glass, so I do need a bit more heat than you might think. We do have insulated blinds on all windows that we close at night.

Chimney - Central brick chimney that is exposed the full height of the living room. Poured flue - 8", inside chimney block, and faced with brick. Lot's of thermal mass.

Floor plan - First floor is open to the second floor for about 1/2 of the length of the house. We run no fans to circulate air (other than the furnace fan) and all rooms stay warm. Certainly cooler in the rooms that are furthest away from the stove and around corners, but we've been comfortable for 30 years!

History - This is probably the most important piece of information I can provide.

Fall and Spring - When the house drops to around 65 degrees, I build my famous "three- piecer". Kindle the fire, add 3 medium sized splits. Get it up to temp and let it burn and then go out. That will get the house up to 70 - 72 and it will be back down to 65 in the morning.
Winter - moderate temps - 30's, I'll build a small fire and add wood to it every 3 or 4 hours. If it gets into the teens and 20's, I'll stoke it a bit more and add wood every 3 or 4 hours using larger splits. 10 degrees or below, I will actually fill the stove and load it fully every 5 or 6 hours.

Stove Temps - As I've started to look at new stoves, I was concerned that they seemed to burn so hot! I did a check on the Defiant over the last few days and I keep the stack temp at around 300 degrees. You can see my thermometer in the photo - it's about 12" above the stove top and is magnetic, so measuring the surface temp. I then placed another thermometer on the griddle of the stove and that runs around 500 degrees, so maybe the new stoves are not that much hotter than the Defiant.

Wood Use - About 4 cords a year. I burn almost no LP to heat the house. The furnace only runs when we take a trip or are gone for more than 15 hours or so and that is rare. I burn well seasoned Oak, Hickory, Cherry, and Red Elm - some Black Walnut, but that is not my favorite wood.

And you asked about cat vs non-cat - I'm leaning towards non-cat. There is just something about having a part like that to look at, wonder if it needs to be replaced, and then having to buy the replacement that doesn't appeal to me. I understand that a cat stove *might* be a better choice for me. You can see that my challenge is to keep a small enough fire going except in very cold temperatures and we only have those conditions fairly infrequently these days. Going back 30 years we did have those extended below 0 periods, sometimes dipping into the -10's, -20's ... we just don't see that any more.

Whew - that might be more than you wanted to knowView attachment 215646

Wonderful post here, not a bit too much.

Love your stove set up. It's exactly what I would want if I were starting from scratch.

Couple of things to think about: That old Defiant is a monster heater and extremely forgiving. It produces intense heat. New stoves don't produce more usable intense heat than it does. They do burn the wood more completely, yes.

The refractory inside modern stoves focuses the intense heat inside the firebox and tempers the heat radiated outward. In the Defiant, all of that radiating heat soaks into your bricks to be released slowly.

You also have a lovely open floor plan and that mass of masonry right in the middle that absorbs a bunch of that heat, the whole setup probably benefits from that big hot stove.

You will not have the same experience with a smaller modern stove.

I'd steer away from soapstone in your situation. It would be purely aesthetic (and expensive) due to the fact you already have so much strategically placed thermal mass. In fact, I suspect it would detract from the performance of your setup.

If you need aesthetic improvement, enamel won't hurt your performance. Personally, I think cast iron is lovely.

If you've been happy with the Defiant for many years, you may want to replace it with another big hot stove to get those bricks warm.

It seems like you've created a situation similar to having a masonry heater that requires intense fires to heat up your thermal mass.

Could a smaller modern stove accomplish this? Maybe, I personally wouldn't take the chance.

I hope some others here chime in with recommendations on big stoves for you.

 

[SuperJ]

Maybe a Jotul Oslo (F500) if you like the side loading?
Or the Jotul F50 TL Rangely.
My parents of a Pacific Energy Alderlea, it's beautiful and they love it. For you application I'd recommend the T6 size.

 

[Woody Stover]

I think my next stove may have a welded plate-steel firebox. That avoids the possibility of developing air leaks along cemented or gasketed seams, resulting in less control over the burn and eventually necessitating a rebuild. An interesting non-cat in this configuration would be the Pacific Energy Summit or Alderlea T6. Same guts in both but the T6 has a cast iron convective jacket which will curb the direct radiation blast if you are sitting close to the stove, and also store some heat in the thermal mass of the cast iron, extending the heat life of the stove a bit at the end of the burn. Oddly, they don't offer the T6 in enamel, only the T4 and T5. But I think you need the big boy up there in Cheeseland. I spent my first 30 yrs. in the Milw. area...further north, the temps get even lower. The Summit Classic has a couple of enamel colors. The PE stoves are reported to be some of the longest-burning non-cats, with their EBT air control. They have square fireboxes so you can load N-S or E-W. Ever since I got the VC Dutchwest, I'm spoiled on the grated ash disposal system, which you may also have on the Defiant..? I'm not sure how good the PE ash disposal system is. I know begreen shovels out his T6, but that much work is definitely not gonna be happnin around here. Hopefully @begreen will chime in and extol some other virtues of the stove.

 

[peakbagger]

You are going to miss it when its gone. Mine hasnt been fired for a few years but it remains in place in case I lose power. I heated my entire house for a couple of days after an ice storm made power only a part time thing. Hard to beat the radiant heat from a Defiant. I got mine used originally after it had been well used full time heating one home and then part time in a second home. I bit the bullet and bought the two piece fireback kit conversion kit that included the new door assembly. That two piece lasted about 8 years of burning and then started to warp so I bought a replacement for the warped piece and took it apart and resealed it. I switched to a boiler after that. The only thing I dont miss is try to get it to turn down after good hot fire, the levitating cook plate made for some interesting moments

For folks with less than optimal wood and high heating demand I would challenge the concept that a newer stove would be that more efficient in normal operation, I think its when you try to cut back the heat output is when the newer stoves get the upper hand. If you want a stove made by the same quality craftsmen just down the road from the original VC factory, hard to beat a Woodstock Ideal Steel or one of their higher end stoves. A different look but nice to support a small US manufacturer.

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

Wonderful post here, not a bit too much.

Love your stove set up. It's exactly what I would want if I were starting from scratch.

Couple of things to think about: That old Defiant is a monster heater and extremely forgiving. It produces intense heat. New stoves don't produce more usable intense heat than it does. They do burn the wood more completely, yes.

The refractory inside modern stoves focuses the intense heat inside the firebox and tempers the heat radiated outward. In the Defiant, all of that radiating heat soaks into your bricks to be released slowly.

You also have a lovely open floor plan and that mass of masonry right in the middle that absorbs a bunch of that heat, the whole setup probably benefits from that big hot stove.

You will not have the same experience with a smaller modern stove.

I'd steer away from soapstone in your situation. It would be purely aesthetic (and expensive) due to the fact you already have so much strategically placed thermal mass. In fact, I suspect it would detract from the performance of your setup.

If you need aesthetic improvement, enamel won't hurt your performance. Personally, I think cast iron is lovely.

If you've been happy with the Defiant for many years, you may want to replace it with another big hot stove to get those bricks warm.

It seems like you've created a situation similar to having a masonry heater that requires intense fires to heat up your thermal mass.

Could a smaller modern stove accomplish this? Maybe, I personally wouldn't take the chance.

I hope some others here chime in with recommendations on big stoves for you.

Sorry for being out of the loop here - deer hunting and getting ready to open the free farm have take up about 25 hours of every day!

Thanks for your comments - They all gave me something to think about. They also confirmed that I need to be careful in this decision! I just knew it in my bones, but you and others have confirmed it. Heating with wood is so interesting - at one end of the spectrum it is, "fire in a box", on the other end it is so extremely complicated! I know that there are stoves out there that would be totally wrong for me with my set up - I have to be sure I don't make that mistake. I also know that there is no perfect stove out there for me - perfect heating, perfect loading, perfect look, etc. I just would like to get "close" to that!

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

I think my next stove may have a welded plate-steel firebox. That avoids the possibility of developing air leaks along cemented or gasketed seams, resulting in less control over the burn and eventually necessitating a rebuild. An interesting non-cat in this configuration would be the Pacific Energy Summit or Alderlea T6. Same guts in both but the T6 has a cast iron convective jacket which will curb the direct radiation blast if you are sitting close to the stove, and also store some heat in the thermal mass of the cast iron, extending the heat life of the stove a bit at the end of the burn. Oddly, they don't offer the T6 in enamel, only the T4 and T5. But I think you need the big boy up there in Cheeseland. I spent my first 30 yrs. in the Milw. area...further north, the temps get even lower. The Summit Classic has a couple of enamel colors. The PE stoves are reported to be some of the longest-burning non-cats, with their EBT air control. They have square fireboxes so you can load N-S or E-W. Ever since I got the VC Dutchwest, I'm spoiled on the grated ash disposal system, which you may also have on the Defiant..? I'm not sure how good the PE ash disposal system is. I know begreen shovels out his T6, but that much work is definitely not gonna be happnin around here. Hopefully @begreen will chime in and extol some other virtues of the stove.

Thanks Woody Stover - This is really helpful. You have gotten me thinking about a steel stove with the cast iron jacket - trying to get the convenience of no leaks and the look of cast iron. I go back and forth on the plain cast look or enamel - the old Defiant is just cast and I sort of like stove blacking it every so often. Speaking of going back and forth - no ash pan/grate system in the Defiant, so I'm used to shoveling ash. Thinking that I might like an ash pan set up, but then there's a door gasket to deal with every so often, and I read that some of the pans are not designed well, so ash gets in behind it and you can't get the pan back in and have to clean behind it.

I've got a checklist started with as many of the decision points as I can come up with - things I had and so many thing that forum members have suggested. That will help me as I get ready to look at stoves and then make a decision. Enamel vs non-enamel will be an easy one - either would be fine. Cat vs non-cat ... that's a tougher one!

 

[XmasTreefarmer]

You are going to miss it when its gone. Mine hasnt been fired for a few years but it remains in place in case I lose power. I heated my entire house for a couple of days after an ice storm made power only a part time thing. Hard to beat the radiant heat from a Defiant. I got mine used originally after it had been well used full time heating one home and then part time in a second home. I bit the bullet and bought the two piece fireback kit conversion kit that included the new door assembly. That two piece lasted about 8 years of burning and then started to warp so I bought a replacement for the warped piece and took it apart and resealed it. I switched to a boiler after that. The only thing I dont miss is try to get it to turn down after good hot fire, the levitating cook plate made for some interesting moments

For folks with less than optimal wood and high heating demand I would challenge the concept that a newer stove would be that more efficient in normal operation, I think its when you try to cut back the heat output is when the newer stoves get the upper hand. If you want a stove made by the same quality craftsmen just down the road from the original VC factory, hard to beat a Woodstock Ideal Steel or one of their higher end stoves. A different look but nice to support a small US manufacturer.

Spoken like a true VC Defiant owner. I have already decided that I will just park the Defiant in my shed or barn when I get my new stove. Just in case, I can't get happy with a new stove (god forbid!) I have the option of rebuilding that one, selling my new one, and I'm right back where I started.

Your comment about a new stove maybe not being more efficient - was helpful. I do have the luxury of optimal wood. I only burn wood that's been split, stacked, and covered for 2 years and most of the time I'm burning 3 year wood that has been in a shed at least the last year. And one of my issues with heating is cutting the heat back where a new stove should help. As an example, yesterday it was in the mid-20's in the morning and then warmed up to around 35 mid-day. I finally had to just let the fire go out around 7:00pm. It got down to 30 last night and it was still 65 degrees in the house in the morning and I restarted it then.

Loved the "levitating cook plate"! I have seen it. My chimney is good, but once or twice a Winter there is some combination of wind direction and wind gust that will cause a back puff and if it's strong enough, the cook plate will clank!

Thanks again - everyone has been so helpful and given me so much to think about.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Thanks for the great information. Very interesting how you split to get a compact fuel load! I'm not getting any younger, so the no being down on your knees sounds nice. Question - so you do have to start the fire from the front, correct? Then after that you use only the top load.

There's a couple of places near me where they have some top loading VC stove models hooked up and working - I'll have to check those out and actually load some wood. I bet if I arrange it with one of the sales folks, I can come in as soon as they open and watch the starting process too.

So when lighting the stove yes you need ro use the front doors.. but after its going no longer.
As far as smoke spillage i have none. I have verry good draft. I can open the top of the stove and nothing happens. I can leave it while i load it and its not a problem. I wnt with an 8inch. Stove pipe