Room still gets Smokey

[Jfk4th]

Hey guys,
Wife is starting to complain a little about the smoke sometimes, worse when the blower goes on. 2007 Summit bought in March last year, stocked blower. I am still getting the curring smell when stack temps get above 500F, this is really upsetting me too, don't think this normal. I use this pretty much 24/7 when it is cold, below 40F. Here are some pics of what might be causing the smoke? Help
The losers that put in my Avalon bent the pipe there at the top of the ceiling in Feb 2006, it is pretty dented at the top, should I take that out and replace. Is it difficult to do? I have added 6 feet and 2 braces outside on the roof so if it is easy I a sure I could do it inside.
Help again
Sincerely
Sick of room getting smokey and wife complaining about, plus tired of curring smell

You can kind of see some ash on the pipe, might be the problem?

 

[Jfk4th]

here is another pic

 

[jtp10181]

Is the double or single wall?

NM I can see the joint sliding apart on the last pic, single wall.

You could take all the pipe apart inside and seal all the joints with furnace cement. If smoke is leaking out of the pipe usually thats a sign of a weak draft or plugged up chimney. You said something was dented? That top piece just looks like its crocked, hard to tell in the pics.

 

[Jfk4th]

Furnace cement, OK. I can find this at Lowes or HD? I have 17 feet of chimney pipe from stovetop to cap, I hope it is not that. I also have 2 braces on the roof so once again I hope that is not it. Plugged chminey maybe, I clean it out in May/June every year. Only about 2 or 3 cups of creosote powder. Hmmmmmmm.....I might try the cement. Can I put that in all the connects including the connection to the stovetop?

The pipe is dented and crocked I guess, will this make a huge difference in draft, it is on the back side so nobody knows it is there, except me of course

 

[jtp10181]

First I would check the cap screen. It might just need to be cleaned out. Otherwise yes you can get furnace / stove cement at hardware stores or stove dealers. You can seal up every joint including the connection to the stove itself. If you have to take the pipe apart again it might be a little more work and you will have to re-seal it every time.

The dent would only effect it if its causing the pipe the not seal together correctly, at the joint below or above. Otherwise I don't think a small dent would effect draft.

 

[Jfk4th]

Sounds good,
The cap screen is the one place that gets thicker chunks of black. I should just make sure this is nice, clean and open correct?

 

[jtp10181]

Yeah take a wire brush up there, like a grill brush or something. Clean all the gunk off the cap screen. Even with it 25% clogged that's about a 25% reduction in draft. With your short stack that could make as big difference.

 

[SlyFerret]

If the furnace cement that you buy is similar to the stuff I used, you'll need to use a little bit of water (it doesn't take much) to make it thin enough to spread. I used a pyrex measuring cup to mix it in, since I knew it would be easier to clean out than a plastic container. I put some cement putty in the measuring cup and then added a drizzle of water and stirred it up until it was just thin enough to spread evenly on the pipe. I spread it on the inside of one pipe, and on the outside of the crimpted section of the other piece. If you do it right, you'll be able to reach in and clean up the excess each time before you put the next pieces together.

Clean up the outside of the pipe with a paper towel and a wet rag. If you're careful, you'll get a great strong bond and it will look good too.

When you clean up, don't run that stuff down your drain.

-SF

 

[Jfk4th]

Yeah take a wire brush up there, like a grill brush or something. Clean all the gunk off the cap screen. Even with it 25% clogged that's about a 25% reduction in draft. With your short stack that could make as big difference.

OK will clean that cap thoroughly today
Is 17 feet "short", I know some people have 22 or 24 feet, but the specs call for 15 total from stovetop to cap. I still agree that a 25% reduction is big deal

 

[SlyFerret]

The chimney might still be a little on the short side. A good indicator of draft problems is if you get smoke spillage into the room when you open the stove up.

If the smoke draws back and up the chimney with the door open the chimney height might be OK, but it might also be just borderline to where the restriction from the air is just a little bit more than the system can overcome. In that case, adding another couple feet to the top might fix your problem.

How high is the top of your flue over the roof deck? Is it at least 3 feet? Is it at least 2 feet higher than any roof within 10 feet?

-SF

 

[Backwoods Savage]

JFK, you always use furnace cement when putting stove pipe together. With the angle of that last pipe it is no wonder you have a smoke smell in the house. Just go to any hardware store and get a small jar of the furnace cement. As to the consistency of the cement, don't get it too thin; just thin enough to spread. Put the pipe together (yes, use screws too) and then you must cure the furnace cement with a slow burn. Just look on the container and it will tell you how to cure it. My guess is this will take care of your problem, but yes, the chimney also needs to be checked for creosote. You should do that 2 or 3 times each winter.

 

[Fire Bug]

Hi JFK,(Stay out of Dallas,Texas).
On the serious side to your post/question, I would have the shoddy intallers of this unit come back and straighten the cocked stove pipe out. It looks really bad in your photos, I could imagine what it looks like up close and personal. It looks like Sh-t.
You might have "Back Puffing" which will out of no where occurs causing smoke to come out any joint in a stove pipe, the door of a woodstove,air intake, or any other place on a stove where air can enter or escape. It only occurs for a very brief second, but under pressure, pushes out a puff of super heated smoke out of any opening on the pipe or the stove, no matter how small it is.
It will give you a little bit of a scare if observe it when it happens.
I am not saying this is the problem that you are experienceing but it might be something to look into.
John

 

[Jfk4th]

The chimney might still be a little on the short side. A good indicator of draft problems is if you get smoke spillage into the room when you open the stove up.

If the smoke draws back and up the chimney with the door open the chimney height might be OK, but it might also be just borderline to where the restriction from the air is just a little bit more than the system can overcome. In that case, adding another couple feet to the top might fix your problem.

How high is the top of your flue over the roof deck? Is it at least 3 feet? Is it at least 2 feet higher than any roof within 10 feet?

-SF

Can't add anymore, I have 2 braces holding the pipe already, not going to do three braces. I have a 11 feet above the roof deck already and well over 2 feet (it is actually 5 feet above for mine, sticks out really well from the front of my house....) to the closet roof, plenty according any specs or permits . I am going to clean the cap and use some Rutland cement, hopefully this will do it. Thanks for the help guys, you rock!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

JFK, let us know if this solves your problem. Good luck.

 

[brooktrout]

I think it would also help to reverse the pipes so the top pieces overlap the bottom ones.

 

[marky_mark896]

I think it would also help to reverse the pipes so the top pieces overlap the bottom ones.

I agree brooktrout, if it's possible.

 

[jtp10181]

I think it would also help to reverse the pipes so the top pieces overlap the bottom ones.

I agree brooktrout, if it's possible.

... that would be backwards and you would end up with creosote dripping down the outside of the pipe. There is a reason it goes the way it does.

 

[marky_mark896]

Ahhh, see, I was only thinkin' about smoke goin' up, not stuff coming down...that's why you guys are the experts. :lol:

 

[Jfk4th]

I think it would also help to reverse the pipes so the top pieces overlap the bottom ones.

Don't think I will reverse it, thanks for trying though. Just cleaned the cap, was not blocked at all, maybe .01%, scraped it clean while I was up there anyway. Tomorrow I am going to take the single wall pipe off, bought some rutland cement from Ace, and smear that stuff around every connection.

I hate admit it but I think this is my fault here, even though I hate the guys that originally put in my Avalon and piping 2 years ago. When I put in the Summit myself and took the pipe off I never sealed it with rutland cement. I am pretty sure it was not even on there before,SHAME ON THEM, HERITAGE FIREPLACE, LOCKPORT NY! I guess this is par with their bad customer service after the sale.....
Hope tomorrow works, cross your fingers.

 

[Fire Bug]

I think it would also help to reverse the pipes so the top pieces overlap the bottom ones.

I agree brooktrout, if it's possible.

... that would be backwards and you would end up with creosote dripping down the outside of the pipe. There is a reason it goes the
way it does.

Also if you didn't have a flue cap rain water will follow the flue down and leak down the sides of the pipe, on the stove, and eventually onto the hearth.

 

[marky_mark896]

Yeah Fire Bug, I'm sure his wife wouldn't have been happy about that!

 

[Jfk4th]

My wife only understands that it is cold in the house(why?).....what's wrong with the wood stove..........why is it smokey in the house....Ahhhhhhhh
Just bought 5, 8x8 firewood log racks at Lowes for 24.99 each with a cover, Hey it is not a bad day after all....
Cheers

 

[Jfk4th]

Wish I was that lucky, just cleaned it yesterday, only about 1 cup creosote powder, nice and shiny now. I put cement at all the lower connections of pipe. Seemed to help. Now I have to deal with this curring smelling, STILL AFTER ALMOST A YEAR OF BEING USED.....:O

 

[Fire Bug]

Hi JFK,
Smoke,Poor Drafting, Back Puffing,Neative Amospheric Pressure, Wind, Various Weather Conditions, etc.,etc., sorry to say, are some of the negatives of wood stoves. Besides the wood cutting, spliting,toating,and feeding the "Baby".
Some positives are the Cheap or Free Warm Heat. That why after 21 years, I switched to gas and a thermostat. I'll pay the propane bills.
Turned fifty, 2/1/58. Gettin Old I guess.
I wish you well.

 

[MSmith66]

I think it would also help to reverse the pipes so the top pieces overlap the bottom ones.

I agree brooktrout, if it's possible.

... that would be backwards and you would end up with creosote dripping down the outside of the pipe. There is a reason it goes the way it does.

I agree. With wood stoves, the cripped ends should face towards the stove and for coal stoves the cripped ends should face away from the stove.