Save money switching to gas?

[LLigetfa]

The wife seems to think so. I just put my order in for another 12 cord at $100 per cord, up from $95 last year. The wife figures it's not worth it to burn wood at those prices.

So, if I burn 6 cord a year, that's $600 over and above our current annual gas bill of $900. Mind you, the gas furnace supplements the wood and both hot water and cooking are included. My gas bill spikes to about $100/month Spring and Fall when we don't burn as much wood and drops to around $40/month in Summer.

I have no idea what our bill would be if we heated only with gas as we've always burned wood in the cold months. It's a well insulated 2100 sq ft house. If I divide the 114 cubic metres consumed (4025 cu ft) by the delivered price ($78) on a recent gas bill, it works out to around $1.46 (correction, 68.4 cents) per cubic metre.

I read somewhere that:
1 cu ft of gas is 1000 BTU
1 cu m of gas is 35,000 BTU
1 cord of Black Ash produces 13,370,000 BTU based on average efficiency stove

By my calculation, a cord of ash is roughly equivalent to 382 cu m of gas or $557.72 (correction, $261) worth of gas. Am I really saving $966 ($1566 - $600)) per year? Anyone care to to check my math or otherwise dispute my assumptions?

 

[karl]

I'm just a dumb redneck from the states, so I don't know all of the metric system stuff.

We buy gas by the MCF. I believe that's a thousand cubic feet. Even the gas guy that came to the house wasn't sure. What I do know for sure, is that an MCF is just over a million BTU. That's works with your cubic foot being 1000 BTU. Where I think you're wrong is that a cubic foot is actually a 1024 BTU. So an MCF is 1,024,000. Something like that. It's roughly a million BTU but slightly more.

Anyway, I pay 15.00 an MCF. Luckily, woods the same here. So, a cord of ash is still 13,370,000 BTU or 13.37MCf or 200.55 worth of natual gas.

That's the cost in West Virginia. Still a heck of deal. Especially when I pay about 50 dollars a cord for mixed slab wood.

Also, I burn about 6 cords a year here. I don't heat anything but water with gas, the space heater a little bit. I'm saving about a little more than 1200 dollars. I think my stove is more efficient than my furnace. The stove is 72% and the furnace is 80% but I don't have the loss associated with the duct work when I burn the stove.

 

[LLigetfa]

OK, thanks for that. Ja, I gave some metric conversions to cu ft for y'all. So, you pay $60.US for about the same amount of gas that I pay $78.CDN for. I see where I went wrong... Rather than $1.46 per cubic metre, it is just 68.4 cents. That puts a cord around $261.CDN worth of gas times 6 cord or around $1566 per year for the equivalent in gas. Subtract the original cost for the wood $600, and the net savings are $966. Actually, I still have to sutract the cost of fuel for the saw, the splitter, and the tractor.

Now, the truth be told, the wife wants me to go out back and harvest my own Poplar at virtually no cost rather than pay $100 per cord for Ash. The problem is Poplar has way less BTU per cord so it doubles my work.

 

[LLigetfa]

Hmm... the wife isn't buying my math. She doesn't believe our gas bill would go up $1500 if I stopped burning wood. If I extrapolate at the cheapest month ($40) of our gas bill across 12 months, $480 of the $900 is the portion that isn't the furnace, so $420 is the current furnace component that I am supplementing with wood. So, is there anyone heating a 2100 sq ft home with gas that would share what it costs?

Can anyone support or refute the assertion on this website:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/heating_value_wood

What is the significance of "BTU's Per Cord" versus "Recoverable BTU's per Cord"? Is stove efficiency factored or do I still have to substract for that?

 

[RedRanger]

Only thing for certain is that your comfort level -- vis-a-vis heat is gonna go way down.

I wouldn`t change out my wood heat till I was too old and decrepid to do it anymore!! :coolhmm:

 

[quinn]

Here in BC we have a 2500 square foot house and five years ago it cost me $2700 a year to heat with gas. I have been heating with wood since then and my gas bill now, for water and one stove only, is about $600 a year (we have three cast iron tubs in the house that use lots of hot water). I use about 8 cord a year and spend about $600 a year getting and buying wood. Add to that the $150 yearly for supplemental electric heat that we use to space heat two rooms furthest from the stoves. Given the comfort and cost savings it is well worth it for us. This is especially true this winter with the long stretch of -25 C.

 

[pen]

I am impressed with 100 dollars per cord! Is your cord 4feet x 4 feet x 8 feet? If so, wow! What a deal!

And it would DEFINITELY be cheaper than gas.

pen

 

[DWW68]

(Hmm… the wife isn’t buying my math. She doesn’t believe our gas bill would go up $1500 if I stopped burning wood.)

I know what you are saying. Sometimes the only way to get them to understand is to prove it. Stop burning for a month and let her see the gas bill. This will make a believer out of her real quick. But to save yourself all that money to prove your point, take the readings from the gas meter for two days. Burn wood as you are for the one day and record the usage. Do not burn for the second day and record the numbers. Compare the two and do the math for a months usage and this should convince her of the savings. good luck

 

[savageactor7]

^I'm pretty sure LLigetfa gets log loads delivered.

 

[LLigetfa]

^I'm pretty sure LLigetfa gets log loads delivered.

Yes, it's a really big truck. They can only deliver in Winter when the ground is frozen solid.

2jotultom, I haven't followed gas prices closely but I imagine 5 years ago gas was cheaper than today, so those are the kind of numbers I was looking for. Thanks.

Good idea about metering the gas for a day. That would help in my mind, but wouldn't win the argument. You can't really use logic with a woman to get out of something that logic got you into in the first place. I need to find a way to verify that 6 cord of Black Ash is the equivalent of $1500 in natural gas. Anecdotal evidence from recent converts to wood is one way.

 

[Todd]

Only thing for certain is that your comfort level -- vis-a-vis heat is gonna go way down.

I wouldn`t change out my wood heat till I was too old and decrepid to do it anymore!! :coolhmm:

It won't be long then? :lol: Sorry couldn't resist.

 

[d.n.f.]

Here in BC we have a 2500 square foot house and five years ago it cost me $2700 a year to heat with gas. I have been heating with wood since then and my gas bill now, for water and one stove only, is about $600 a year (we have three cast iron tubs in the house that use lots of hot water). I use about 8 cord a year and spend about $600 a year getting and buying wood. Add to that the $150 yearly for supplemental electric heat that we use to space heat two rooms furthest from the stoves. Given the comfort and cost savings it is well worth it for us. This is especially true this winter with the long stretch of -25 C.

Where in SE BC you at 2jotultom?

 

[wellbuilt home]

Hi all I have some experience in fuel pricing in my area . This year oil did a x2 and the yearly fuel bill doubled from about 200 a month to 425a month 12 months a year for oil . propane was about the same . NG was a little cheaper . The houses I'm talking about are bi levels 24x 42 2 floors with a 2 car garage under one side They heat about 1400 feet. lots of people are getting away from oil and going to NG I run the gas lines into the house so Ive been hearing how much it costs per year to heat . I think a 1400sft house here will cost you around 2500 a year to heat with hot water. most people have oil heat and hot water . I have a gas WH There are lots of variables that need to be figured in year round . Its a give and take . I would like to heat my hot water with my stove.

 

[quinn]

d.n.f., I am in Cranbrook.

 

[d.n.f.]

I am through there on the way back and forth to AB.
Can't believe how much it is growing.

Cheers

 

[bokehman]

Hmm... the wife isn't buying my math.

Stove efficiency is not factored and maybe water content is not either, you'll need to check. The gas boiler is going to be more efficient too (maybe 90% compared with about 65% for an EPA non-cat freestander).

both hot water and cooking are included

I've got no back-up heat except for wood, but heat water and cook with butane. I use one 28lb cylinder per month in the winter; less in the summer as the water doesn't need to be heated as much. Water is heated on demand.

Edit: one important thing to remember is that gas heating only works if you have an electric supply.

 

[LLigetfa]

Stove efficiency is not factored and maybe water content is not either, you'll need to check...

I wonder then what the two columns, “BTU’s Per Cord” and “Recoverable BTU’s per Cord” are about? So, having a non-cat EPA stove, I need to discount 40% from my calculations?

 

[LLigetfa]

Edit: one important thing to remember is that gas heating only works if you have an electric supply.

That's a whole other topic, but I was thinking of buying a backup generator that runs on natural gas with all the money I'm saving burning wood. None the less, she has no intention of ripping out the wood burner, only her diabolical plan to force me into slave labour harvesting free wood from my land to put in the woodshed for just such power outage emergencies.

 

[bokehman]

Stove efficiency is not factored and maybe water content is not either, you'll need to check...

I wonder then what the two columns, “BTU’s Per Cord” and “Recoverable BTU’s per Cord” are about? So, having a non-cat EPA stove, I need to discount 40% from my calculations?

My guess is "recoverable is after boiling off moisture. The 40% is, more or less, the energy that goes up the flue. If you have a few feet of exposed single wall pipe in the stove room you will be able to salvage some of that.

 

[SlyFerret]

I like the idea of performing an experiment to calculate the savings. I would think that a slightly longer period of time would be necessary to make sure that you're getting accurate results. If it were me, I would perform the experiment for a week instead of only two days.

-SF

 

[pen]

I still think that the 100 dollars a cord (I am assuming this is what it comes to after you have put your time in cutting up the logs?) Tell your wife the prices that everyone else is paying for a cord of wood (140-200) and that they still find they are saving money. So by YOU doing the work of cutting and splitting, you are even saving another 20-50% over them!

If that still doesn't work, remind her of all the trouble you will be getting into as you wander the house aimlessly and bored since you do not have the wood stove to tend to!

pen

 

[LLigetfa]

The $100 is the delivered cost, 8 foot, in the round. Additional costs are incurred running the saw, the splitter, and the tractor to buck, split, and haul it to the shed.

Anyway... I think she's over the sticker shock and I wore her down to the point she doesn't want to debate it further. I had to nag her for weeks to convince her that we need to put our order in now for more wood. She figured that if she held out, that I would just go out back and harvest Poplar, saving her $600 a year.

She also doesn't agree with my method of seasoning and that it takes 2 years. After I took delivery of 12 cord last Winter in -40 temps and got it all bucked, she nagged me every week not only to get it split, but to also cram all that green wood in the shed. I bucked it right away but I waited until the snow melted to split and loose piled it outside to get lots of air and sun. Every friggin time it rained, she chewed my ear off for letting the wood get wet until I finally put it in the shed at the end of summer. She doesn't believe it needs 2 years to season, saying it's all my fault the wood isn't at its prime now.

She didn't lift a finger to help with the last truckload but suddenly she's the expert and I'm just lazy and stupid. I guess she learned everything there is to know by watching everything I did wrong.

I dread the nagging I will surely get with the next 12 cord getting rained on cuz it won't fit in the shed. She'll lament the $1200 (sitting out in the rain) that she didn't get to spend on some furniture nobody will ever sit on. I, like the cat and dog are not allowed on some pieces.

 

[karl]

If you keep going down that road with her, you're going to have 6 cords of wood and half a stove. Go out and cut some of that poplar. It's good stuff, not great stuff. I keep warm with it, and alot of people out there would be happy to have some. And the stuff doesn't take 2 years to dry.

 

[LLigetfa]

If you keep going down that road with her, you're going to have 6 cords of wood and half a stove.

If it came to that, she wouldn't want the stove unless she found another sucker to do all the work. She can have all the fancy furniture I'm not allowed to sit on anyway.

Do you have an armchair quarterback telling you how to do your work?

 

[SlyFerret]

Sounds like your wife needs to spend some time here (and elsewhere) reading about wood heat, instead of coming up with opinions based on how she thinks things work instead of actual information.

-SF