Not sure if this is a proper post here, but My neighbors and i are trying to fight off developers from building cluster multi unit vacation rentals on the property behind us that is currently zoned "Open Space". It's a 17 minute long art/contemplative video we made. Really for nature lovers. I'd appreciate any nature lovers here to have a look if interested in Nature type videos. It's in Eden, Utah. Thanks
Saving Open Space from development
- Thread starter bigealta
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
I've been on both sides of this issue. We have put some of our family farms (no longer working) into various open space preservation programs, only to have future buyers of said farms sell to developers willing to pay the back-taxes and penalties required to pull them back out of preservation.
My experience has been that the only way to truly preserve it is to buy it and hold it, whether that be direct, or by forming a co-op of interested parties.
My experience has been that the only way to truly preserve it is to buy it and hold it, whether that be direct, or by forming a co-op of interested parties.
Getting this area protected depends on state, county, and local support/regulations and community will. Locally we have a strong Land Trust that has been buying up key parcels to preserve salmon runs and greenspace (>1600 ac). For larger parcels, they have worked with the county govt. to buy the property and turn it into public parks, now >2000 ac. We also have a town parks district that manages 440 acres of ballfields, public greens, etc. In our county, there are over 26,000 acres of parks and about 350 miles of trails. This does not include city or state parks and our large national parks. It can be done with enough support. Organize, network, document, fundraise, and get vocal. Meet with your legislators and create a political campaign to protect this land.
Unfortunately the property owner is one of 3 the Weber County commissioner, Who get to do the final approval vote. In Weber County, Commissioners do Not have to recuse themselves with conflicts of interest. They just have to state that a conflict exists. We are fighting the County because of this situation.
Yeah it's probably a $50-100 million piece of property if the approvals go thru.. Wish i could buy it!
Ashful
Minister of Fire
I guess it also depends on your definition of "open space". If you're going to count ball fields and parks as "open space", then the options open up quite a bit, as begreen already mentioned. My mind went to preserved farm land / wild space, far preferable in my mind to any over-trafficked park or ball field, but perhaps that's the best compromise that can be pursued, in this case.
Your township likely has an open space preservation program, which is almost certainly under-funded for that sort of land purchase on their own, but would also likely be staffed by a few people who know how to tap into state resources. My neighborhood is wrapped on 3 of 4 sides by parks, one of which was donated by a wealthy neighbor, one being state land managed by the township, and the third being land the township purchased from a local farm. There are many ways to skin that cat, although other than showing up for township meetings and voting on the approvals, I'm not involved enough to give any direct guidance.
Your township likely has an open space preservation program, which is almost certainly under-funded for that sort of land purchase on their own, but would also likely be staffed by a few people who know how to tap into state resources. My neighborhood is wrapped on 3 of 4 sides by parks, one of which was donated by a wealthy neighbor, one being state land managed by the township, and the third being land the township purchased from a local farm. There are many ways to skin that cat, although other than showing up for township meetings and voting on the approvals, I'm not involved enough to give any direct guidance.
It was a golf course years ago. It is Zoned OV 1 which is "Open View" Utah's equivalent of Open Space. There are quite a few open space permissible uses, but they are trying to put 550 units onto about 50 acres. We are all 1 acre min zoning, but they are asking for 3000sq ft lots and multi unit buildings, condtels, etc. And the sewage treatment plant for these buildings is to be right behind my house on the sliver of "Open Space" without the multi units.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Ugghh. Surely not what you want to hear, but I'd be listing my house for sale today, if I were you. The market is up, and the chances of selling for a satisfactory price sound much better today, than after construction starts. You can fight 'em or you can join 'em, but I'd be taking myself elsewhere, before the mess even starts.
Yuck, not a great situation. I'm sorry to hear that. Given that there are wetlands, can you an environmental review requirement to at least slow down the process and perhaps protect a portion of the land?
According to the county, there are no "official" wetlands on property. And they just adjusted the setback from the stream bank to 5 feet.
Our biggest hope is Water. We have a small water co (200 homes) and told them we will not provide them any water.
Our biggest hope is Water. We have a small water co (200 homes) and told them we will not provide them any water.
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brenndatomu
Minister of Fire
In Ohio farmland can be placed in preservation with the state...permanently...and as far as I know there is no way around it...but who knows, deep pockets can do what they want sometimes...
What is(are) the source(s) of the system water?
What would it take to get the wetlands recognized? Here it would require a 100ft setback from the stream.
I think the supreme court may have narrowed the definition of wetlands or the protections of late.
Wetlands are covered by federal EPA regulations. State can elect to have their own state regulatory agency to enforce EPA regulations (a delgated authority state) or they can elect to have the EPA directly enforce. Most states go for delegated authority as it give them some control of the process (the option to look the other way in some cases). Nevertheless the US EPA sets the minimum regulations and the state can add but not substract requirements but the "devil is in the details" with respect to interpreting the regulations. Thus a large developer can with the right connections go under the radar on project usually in rural area where local authorities may be overly "friendly" with developers and in many cases the state agencies are understaffed and run by political cronies that deliberately avoid doing their job to follow EPA regulations.
Make sure if you get involved that you have good homeowners coverage with potentially excess liability coverage (not that expensive) as sometimes developers do SLAP lawsuits to prevent organized opposition. (Reportedly Amber Heards legal expenses were covered by homeowners insurance). Any good environmental consultant can fill you in on the applicable regulations, you just have to pay them to do so.
Wetlands are covered by federal EPA regulations. State can elect to have their own state regulatory agency to enforce EPA regulations (a delgated authority state) or they can elect to have the EPA directly enforce. Most states go for delegated authority as it give them some control of the process (the option to look the other way in some cases). Nevertheless the US EPA sets the minimum regulations and the state can add but not substract requirements but the "devil is in the details" with respect to interpreting the regulations. Thus a large developer can with the right connections go under the radar on project usually in rural area where local authorities may be overly "friendly" with developers and in many cases the state agencies are understaffed and run by political cronies that deliberately avoid doing their job to follow EPA regulations.
Make sure if you get involved that you have good homeowners coverage with potentially excess liability coverage (not that expensive) as sometimes developers do SLAP lawsuits to prevent organized opposition. (Reportedly Amber Heards legal expenses were covered by homeowners insurance). Any good environmental consultant can fill you in on the applicable regulations, you just have to pay them to do so.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
There are multiple different state and federal programs for open space and historic farm preservation. Some are much harder to back out than others, but most involve refunding moneys paid by the program to the original owners + all back money on the tax breaks provided by the program + fees on those tax payments. It can add up, especially if the land has been in preservation for many years.
In my limited experience, these programs are like having a dog. They won't stop a burglar or developer, in the absence of other easier or equally profitable opportunities. But as long as other profitable property remains easier or cheaper to obtain, it will add sufficient cost and frustration to have them looking elsewhere first.
The alternative is what the town I have my future house site does, it has got the biggest town forest in NH, 10,000 acres. A separate entity bought and receives donations of undeveloped land and its managed for recreation, forestry and a few other low impact uses like maple sugaring. It abuts the Town Forest in the town I currently live in which now has 5800 acres. There is also a national forest in both towns so there is even more land preserved from development.
If you only had the Utah weather I would go there. My grandfather lived in Wentworth NH for many years. We loved going up there in the Summer and to ski when I was a little kid.
tlc1976
Minister of Fire
Yes, especially if that view has anything to do with the value of the house. If it’s pretty sure to happen and that open space means a lot to you, then I’d suggest selling before it’s widespread knowledge and use the proceeds for another place or at least a down payment.
It definitely sucks sometimes when nearby properties that aren’t yours get developed. Like I’ve got 2 neighbors since I moved here. And my dad can’t see the lake anymore from his house. But IMO I’m not one to fight over it. I’m a firm believer that you should be able to do what you want on your own property, as long as you keep it on the property. Likewise I don’t want others telling me what to do on my 9 acres I pay dearly for. I spent too many years in a HOA.
Before your house was there it was a nice habitat for something. Development happens. This sounds like NIMBY.
Yup it always is. The question is what is fair and reasonable and the best for the community. No one can just build anything anywhere they own property. They could not build a nuclear plant, or 100 story skyscrapers, or a chemical plant. It is determining what is reasonable and what fits the zoning regulations. This project needs complete and Major rezoning to build this proposal. It is Zoned Open Space. I'm all for them complying with the current zoning.
Capitalism. If the zoning and water allow it, the owners can do as they wish.
Don’t like it buy it. Can’t afford it create or join a conservatory to do so. We’ve donated to several here in PA which have added thousands of acres. We have plenty of public land here, 16% of the state.
Utah is already 75% public! Should the government own it all?
Don’t like it buy it. Can’t afford it create or join a conservatory to do so. We’ve donated to several here in PA which have added thousands of acres. We have plenty of public land here, 16% of the state.
Utah is already 75% public! Should the government own it all?
Water does not allow it in this case. Zoning does not allow it in this case.
The water had been decided? No well possible? Or did your development get yours and you want to keep the next guy from developing his land? Did you move from NJ? How did the locals feel at that time when your development was built?
The western approach to water is interesting to watch, bunch of people living in a desert without enough water, depending on AC with electric being supplied by hydro for a fair percentage. Going to be interesting to watch over the next 20 years.
Yeah if you just want to keep going back in time. How did the native americans feel when your great great great grandparents stole America from them. Yes the water has been decided. There is barely enough for the 200 homes the water company supplies. They will not suplpy any water to the 550 proposed units. It's not sustainable. Endless growth chokes out everything around it. Nearby subdivisions with much less density have drawn water so low that residential wells have run dry. How would you like no water in your house?
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