Seek HONEST opinion about risks and safety: gap in chimney liner

[CozyFires]

Hello! I seek your honest opinion on if our fireplace is still safe to use or not. Please look at these pictures. I'll be very grateful to get unbiased information from people who are not hoping to make a sale!

This is what I know:

• It’s an old prefab unit, likely “Majestic” brand—label not readable, with a double wall metal flue pipe.
• This little gap in the pictures is located literally 50% up the chimney.
• Our chimney flue goes straight up through the second floor (previously an attic). The pipe sticks out on the roof.
• The cap/cover/etc at top are in great condition (we had it replaced a few years ago).
• Obtain chimney inspection and cleaning every year/two years (after a full face cord is burned) for past 11 years.
• Between 2021 and 2023, a "gap/kink" has developed in one small spot of the double walled liner. Just discovered a couple weeks ago during inspection. It is unknown (impossible to tell) if the outer wall of the liner has a gap, or if it's only the inner liner.
• I burn all-oak, kiln dried, because I've been told that's the cleanest.
• House is 1887 wood frame workman's cottage, aluminum siding. (No brick).
• Three fireplace contractors have told us that it cannot be repaired; it can only be replaced.
• Replacement is vastly expensive, even cost prohibitive for us.
• I love the fireplace; my favorite part of the home. It is not used for heat, but it is used often for pleasure.
• We plan to live here just three more years, and we know we will not get our $ back if we replace this. The phase one quotes are very high (remove old unit; replace with new unit; drywall), and that's not even including the "finishing" part of it. It would require a new mantel and new hearth to meet code.

This is what I'm asking:

• Is this urgently unsafe, or is this gap so small that it’s not likely to cause a build up in the cooling chamber? (Which I guess is the outer wall of the pipe?)
• If this is potentially unsafe, then to what level? Is it that we might get smoke coming back into our home? (Which we could then put out the fire and not burn anymore). OR is it that we could literally start a house fire?
• Would there be any warning signs prior to us burning our house down if we continue to use this unit?
• I would like to burn for one more season, using the oak kiln-dried, and making small fires.

The files I'm attaching include the "new" gap, along with the pictures from 2021 that show the roof condition etc.

 

[bholler]

I would tell you exactly the same thing your sweeps did. It's not usable

 

[Ashful]

If cost to hire out is prohibitive, why not DIY most of it? You’ll get plenty of the required advice and help from this crew.

 

[brenndatomu]

Just so I understand this right, you want to know how big of a hole in the device that separates the fire from your wood structure home is "too big"?
Isn't that a lil like asking how big of a crack in the jet airliner wing is "too big"?
This is fire, inside your house, where y'all sleep, don't cut corners!

 

[bigealta]

How does a crease like that happen? perhaps a brush catching a lip of the pipe?

 

[CozyFires]

Yes, you are the 4th person who has suggested this is how it was damaged. I have pictures from the 2021 chimney sweep - no crease/wrinkle. I was told I should re-watch the camera while the guy was cleaning three weeks ago, to see if something happened during his cleaning. HE says that a "screw" popped loose due to age (and incorrect installation). However, others have said that there are no screws on this piping, so that is incorrect.

I attached what the sweep sent from 2021 (it was a different company.)

 

[Tech Guru]

Correct, Hem and Lance locking system, no screws. They would permit you to use them in the outermost wall, if absolutely necessary, but they could not penetrate either of the other walls of the pipe (if 3 wall).

A Ball Peen hammer and a really long arm can work wonders, lol.

 

[CozyFires]

Correct, Hem and Lance locking system, no screws. They would permit you to use them in the outermost wall, if absolutely necessary, but they could not penetrate either of the other walls of the pipe (if 3 wall).

A Ball Peen hammer and a really long arm can work wonders, lol.

I believe this is a two wall pipe - would that make a difference? Thank you for confirming no screws if a 3 wall. I just can't believe this! It really seems like this happened thanks to the chimney sweep, but how could I truly prove it? I watched the video of him doing the work (from our security camera that by chance can see the chimney), and I didn't hear any loud noise and/or him react terribly as if something had gone wrong.

 

[CozyFires]

I believe this is a two wall pipe - would that make a difference? Thank you for confirming no screws if a 3 wall. I just can't believe this! It really seems like this happened thanks to the chimney sweep, but how could I truly prove it? I watched the video of him doing the work (from our security camera that by chance can see the chimney), and I didn't hear any loud noise and/or him react terribly as if something had gone wrong.

PS. Do you know if an "extender" of some sort exists to use that tool? This wrinkle is at least 5' from the bottom entry (at the top of the firebox).

 

[Tech Guru]

I believe this is a two wall pipe - would that make a difference? Thank you for confirming no screws if a 3 wall. I just can't believe this! It really seems like this happened thanks to the chimney sweep, but how could I truly prove it? I watched the video of him doing the work (from our security camera that by chance can see the chimney), and I didn't hear any loud noise and/or him react terribly as if something had gone wrong.

The same applied to their two wall systems. They would permit you to use Stainless screws on the outer wall for stability if needed, but they could not penetrate the inner flue.

 

[Mijoka]

If cost to hire out is prohibitive, why not DIY most of it? You’ll get plenty of the required advice and help from this crew.

Given the cost of a liner and the labor involved, especially with a tall building, isn't is a shame that nobody has devised a repair method such as a sleeve that could be lowered into place and expanded to create a patch. FYI, I read a review on Amazon last year where someone used a long flexible rod on their chimney brush and spun it with a power drill. The rod bowed and slapped the liner so much it tore a hole in it. That was a very expensive experiment. Short of something outside the liner mechanically creating that hole, it is hard to explain. Perhaps it s just my vision but I can clearly see the spiral wrap above the tear but below it it looks smooth. When you say it is double wall, do you mean pre-insulated with an inner and outer liner or are you talking a half width overlap when spiral wound, which would create a double wall? Considering that flexible liners are made of material that is .005"-.007" thick, it is only the interlocked corrugated design that creates strength. It would be nice to determine what happened so it does not occur again. It looks to me like it was caused by something pulled up through the liner that somehow grabbed an edge.

 

[Ashful]

Given the cost of a liner and the labor involved, especially with a tall building, isn't is a shame that nobody has devised a repair method such as a sleeve that could be lowered into place and expanded to create a patch.

They do have this, for repairing masonry / clay chimneys. I imagine any poured patch on a stainless liner would create several materials compatibility issues, in terms of CTE, bonding, etc.