Seeking knowledge

[firegiant]

Evening all,

I purchased and installed a lexington forge SSI30 in freestanding mode on the brick hearth in front of our temco fireplace a few years back. I've never posted here until now but learned alot of valuable info while installing by searching this forum.
I insulated an m-flex 316L stainless liner and installed that with a stainless cap on the original chimney chase.
I am hoping to get some good feedback on what can be improved/made safer and get a better idea if I have to change anything for insurance purposes.

 

[begreen]

Well, that is not how a top-vented stove is supposed to be connected, but if the liner is tall and draft is strong then ok.

 

[firegiant]

Well, that is not how a top-vented stove is supposed to be connected, but if the liner is tall and draft is strong then ok.

I agree with you, the problem is that I tried several 90 elbows and not one of them was able to make the turn and still have proper clearance to pass underneath the fireplace Breen.

While I was trying different 90s I noticed that the duravent tee I ordered for easy liner cleanout made a hard 90 and actually worked better. Before I tried it I called around to a few local stove and chimney installers to check if it would pass code and be safe enough and they basically said the same thing you did begreen.

I only wish I could have went double wall instead but the thickness of a double wall tee wouldn't make it either.

Liner in chimney chase is 25ft in height to the cap and draft is decent.

I did have a couple of concerns/questions regarding this stove.

How much longer will I be able to use/keep this stove installed since EPA has changed so many laws? or am I 'grandfathered' in and don't need to concern myself with them unless doing a new install?

If upgrading to a newer model Is the answer, are modern non-cat, secondary stoves more efficient enough comparably to strongly consider the upgrade?

 

[begreen]

You're fine, it's a modern EPA approved stove. Based on the manual it looks like a standard tube design from about 2008. Even if it wasn't modern, you'd be ok in TN I think.

 

[FPX Dude]

I thought the experts always said you can't put an insert thru a ZC fireplace, is there any concern here, isn't that what this is?

 

[30WCF]

I can’t comment on the code or flue concerns, but I’d at least alternate the stack of bricks holding the stove pipe up. Maybe even make a pyramid with a wider base.

 

[firegiant]

I can’t comment on the code or flue concerns, but I’d at least alternate the stack of bricks holding the stove pipe up. Maybe even make a pyramid with a wider base.

It's actually not holding anything up. I have the top of the liner attached to the SS chimney cap. I just have that there for my own peace of mind as additional insurance.

 

[firegiant]

I thought the experts always said you can't put an insert thru a ZC fireplace, is there any concern here, isn't that what this is?

You would be correct if this stove were in the fireplace. It's actually sitting on the brick hearth about three inches in front of the ZC fireplace.

 

[FPX Dude]

Ah, ok , I always thought it was b/c of the chimney not being properly rated, or something. I see that it's sitting in front on the hearth, and has those nice bricks for pad protection, good idea. So, what you're saying is it the weight of the unit, is that the issue with venting thru a ZC?

 

[firegiant]

Ah, ok , I always thought it was b/c of the chimney not being properly rated, or something. I see that it's sitting in front on the hearth, and has those nice bricks for pad protection, good idea. So, what you're saying is it the weight of the unit, is that the issue with venting thru a ZC?

I'm not entirely sure why, but I think you may be correct about the weight of the stove being one of the concerns. If the chimney not being rated was the concern, I am running an insulated 6" SS flexible liner inside the original 8" chimney that is also inside a 12" outer pipe that hangs in the chase.

I originally wanted to put the stove inside the fireplace as an insert but ended up finding that it would not meet safety or code requirements according to the temco ZC fireplace manual as they caution against installing an insert.

 

[firegiant]

When I did the install, a couple of things I did that I believe will help prolong the life of this wood burner are:

Used hi temp fire cement on all the interior welds/joints/seams.

Painted interior with hi temp spray paint.

Once paint and mortar was dry, I used extra peices of ceramic blanket to fill in gaps that were difficult to access using the cement while making sure not to obstruct airwash or air supply holes.

(I am aware that no high temp paint survives direct flame though there are several internal areas that are protected by firebrick and ceramic blanket that will not get touched by direct flame)

Added some stills so you can get a better idea of what was done.

 

[EbS-P]

I think you did the absolute best you could do from a safety standpoint. Looks pretty good.

If it needed replacing a rear vent stove would work better than the top vent as long as you have the height. If it’s working well see no read to change it out.

 

[firegiant]

I think you did the absolute best you could do from a safety standpoint. Looks pretty good.

If it needed replacing a rear vent stove would work better than the top vent as long as you have the height. If it’s working well see no read to change it out.

Thanks much EbS-P. I learned quite a bit from you, begreen and other pros by searching this forum during the install. I agree with you, when I decide to upgrade I will definitely be going with a rear vent non-cat or hybrid. Any suggestions are very much welcome as considerations for future.

Switching gears, as I mentioned the draft is decent but could be better. Do you think if I replaced tee connected to the liner with a 90 that it might increase the draft a bit?

 

[begreen]

The Jotul F45 might be a good fit. It has a short-leg option if needed. That said, the current stove may last decades.

 

[firegiant]

The Jotul F45 might be a good fit. It has a short-leg option if needed. That said, the current stove may last decades.

Agreed, the current stove might last decades, though I could deal without the smoke rolling up towards the door on every reload with this design but I will take it for the heat it puts out. I got the stove new on ebay a few years ago for around $550. I'm sure there is no way I'm finding any deals like that post-pandemic.

I forgot to mention, the center of tee on top of the flue collar is right at 25 1/2" maximum though I can lower it some if needed.

In addition to a non-cat or hybrid, I would be looking for a stove that can maximize burn times with the largest firebox possible at that flue height.

 

[begreen]

Is the fireplace lintel height 29"?
The Woodstock Ideal Steel and the Jotul F55 are probably the largest stoves that have the rear venting option. The IS height is adjustable down to 24.5" CL height and the F55 flue collar CL is at 26.75" with std. legs and 23.5" with the short leg kit.

 

[firegiant]

Is the fireplace lintel height 29"?
The Woodstock Ideal Steel and the Jotul F55 are probably the largest stoves that have the rear venting option. The IS height is adjustable down to 24.5" CL height and the F55 flue collar CL is at 26.75" with std. legs and 23.5" with the short leg kit.

The lintel height from brick hearth to lintel is 28 1/4"

The height of the stove can be taller than that (because the stove is pulled out in freestanding mode) so long as the center of the horizontal flue does not exceed 25 1/"2 inches in height.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like both of those stoves could work then.

 

[firegiant]

It sounds like both of those stoves could work then.

Thanks for the info begreen, I will check them out later this evening.

In my current situation and in a previous question, I was wondering if replacing fireplace tee with a 90 elbow would improve my draft at all?

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the info begreen, I will check them out later this evening.

In my current situation and in a previous question, I was wondering if replacing fireplace tee with a 90 elbow would improve my draft at all?

I don't think an elbow replacement will make a big difference.
The best case scenario to eliminate smoke rollout would be to install the Jotul F55 with top venting direct to the liner. This would require the short leg kit.

 

[firegiant]

I don't think an elbow replacement will make a big difference.
The best case scenario to eliminate smoke rollout would be to install the Jotul F55 with top venting direct to the liner. This would require the short leg kit.

I agree that replacing the stove may be an effective means of eliminating smoke rollout when starting/reloading due to the design of the smoke path but after looking at prices of current stoves I can't really justify making that much of a purchase when everything else about this stove works great.

I came up with some ideas for the loose c-cast baffle that I think would greatly improve or possibly even eliminate smoke rollout altogether is successful.

My question it this: if I were to design a split, stainless baffle that could move forward in order to open directly under the vent when reloading then get pushed back into place and close back together when the door is closed do you think this would be effective? I've seen some other similar stove designs that have something similar but I'm just making sure this doesn't affect the stoves UL certification if I use a different baffle without modification to the actual stove.

 

[bholler]

You would be correct if this stove were in the fireplace. It's actually sitting on the brick hearth about three inches in front of the ZC fireplace.

Does the stove and pipe meet all clearances to combustibles with regards to the framing behind that brick veneer? Did you still allow for airflow through the cooling jacket of the old chimney when you put the liner in?

 

[firegiant]

Does the stove and pipe meet all clearances to combustibles with regards to the framing behind that brick veneer? Did you still allow for airflow through the cooling jacket of the old chimney when you put the liner in?

Great questions bholler. Yes to both.

Our neighbor down the road originally had the house built for her mother in '99. She still had the original plans and the hearth is all brick, according to the build plan she gave us, not a veneer like i originally thought as well. Out of paranoia and an abundance of caution, I ran a wire camera behind the brick near the wall to confirm. Seems a little overkill for a ZC install but she built it how she wanted.

I have not modified or restricted the cooling jacket in any way, the air is still able to cool the space between the original 8 and 12 inch chimney pipes.

 

[bholler]

Great questions bholler. Yes to both.

Our neighbor down the road originally had the house built for her mother in '99. She still had the original plans and the hearth is all brick, according to the build plan she gave us, not a veneer like i originally thought as well. Out of paranoia and an abundance of caution, I ran a wire camera behind the brick near the wall to confirm. Seems a little overkill for a ZC install but she built it how she wanted.

I have not modified or restricted the cooling jacket in any way, the air is still able to cool the space between the original 8 and 12 inch chimney pipes.

Ok that addresses the main concerns I had