short burn times

[sweitzzzz]

Hi. I have a Napoleon 1402 insert and cannot get flame to last more than a few hours. I'm going through a lot of wood. I think I'm burning too hot according to the manual which says optimal pipe temperature is 450 degrees Fahrenheit. The stove top thermometer I use is always higher than that however the blower will kick off if the stove top temperature is below 450.

I'd really like some advice on how to regulate the temperature and burn tines.

Other notes due to not getting enough heat into the house I recently used roxul to seal the chimney off. PreviouslyI had just sheet metal.

Also I have an ash clean out with a metal door on the floor of the fireplace under the inserts.

Thanks in advance.

 

[begreen]

We need to know more about how you are running the stove currently. How far down are you closing the air control and at what point in the burn cycle are you doing this?

Often low heat is a problem of partially seasoned wood. Tell us about the wood supply - when was it split and stacked, what species wood, and what thickness are the average splits?

How is the insert vented? Is there a fully insulated liner to the top of the chimney? How tall is this liner?

 

[sweitzzzz]

We need to know more about how you are running the stove currently. How far down are you closing the air control and at what point in the burn cycle are you doing this?

Often low heat is a problem of partially seasoned wood. Tell us about the wood supply - when was it split and stacked, what species wood, and what thickness are the average splits?

How is the insert vented? Is there a fully insulated liner to the top of the chimney? How tall is this liner?

Once the temperature reads 500 I close the damper probably 3/4 closed. The temperature continues to rise between 550 and 650.

I thought I may have a wood problem so purchased some of these compressed logs. The packaging states they are hardwood and low moisture.

My liner is not insulated and is about 20ft high.

 

[sweitzzzz]

Picture of the logs.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like you could be doing fine for running the stove and have enough liner to assure decent draft. Where are you measuring the stove temp?

Does the stove room have a very high ceiling or a stairwell nearby?

 

[sweitzzzz]

Sounds like you could be doing fine for running the stove and have enough liner to assure decent draft. Where are you measuring the stove temp?

Does the stove room have a very high ceiling or a stairwell nearby?

The thermometer is centered on the top of the stove. The room is a dining room living room kitchen connected with stairs that go up to 3 bedrooms.

 

[begreen]

Odd, it sounds like you are pumping plenty of btus into the space. Is the 1st floor 8' ceiling height or very tall? Approx. how many sq ft in the house? Is there a lot of glass area or other major heat loss like poor insulation?

 

[sweitzzzz]

Odd, it sounds like you are pumping plenty of btus into the space. Is the 1st floor 8' ceiling height or very tall? Approx. how many sq ft in the house? Is there a lot of glass area or other major heat loss like poor insulation?

8ft ceilings 2100 sqft but there is a bedroom, bathroom, and living room located down stairs that I don't get heat to which i fine with. The room where the insert is has a lot of Windows and an exterior door. The Windows are new through out the house. [/QUOTE]

 

[sweitzzzz]

 

[blacktail]

I think I'm burning too hot according to the manual which says optimal pipe temperature is 450 degrees Fahrenheit. The stove top thermometer I use is always higher than that however the blower will kick off if the stove top temperature is below 450.

Don't confuse pipe temp and stove top temp. Stove top should be higher than pipe when the fire is settled in.

 

[JC88]

I don’t know what kind of thermometer you have but I have had a couple that were very inconsistent and inaccurate. I ended up getting an IR thermometer and also use a magnetic one about 12” above the stove top on the stack. It seems like when I started getting my temps dialed in my burn times increased a lot vs when I was just guessing

 

[sweitzzzz]

Don't confuse pipe temp and stove top temp. Stove top should be higher than pipe when the fire is settled in.

Thanks for your advice. Last night I got the stove top temp to read 700+ and still could not get anywhere with extending the burn time. I have a thermometer in the room about 15ft away from the stove and could only get the room temp to 66.

Do you think it's just not enough stove for the room? Is there any danger I'm burning the stove that hot?

 

[FR9Ford]

Im following this, i have a very similar problem with a buck 94nc in 2200 sq ft ranch

 

[Sprinter]

Sounds like you're fighting two problems. Short burn times, which is rather subjective, and inadequate space heating.

I don't have an insert, but I'd be interested in exactly where and how you are measuring the stove temp and also the flue temp. It seems like it would be difficult to measure both on an insert. Free standing stoves are much easier as everything is exposed. An IR thermometer can help there since it can be pointed.

Burn times are notoriously hard to agree on what it adequate and how to measure it. A lot of variables involved including wood species and moisture content as well as operational technique. It sounds like a good idea to try the bricks, but be careful. They can burn very hot by themselves. If you think your cord wood is too moist, try mixing the two. Best if you have a moisture meter to measure the moisture on the inside face of a freshly split piece to be sure. Shoot for 20% moisture content. You can probably be okay with 25% max until you get ahead on your wood supply. If you just recently acquired your wood, it's almost certainly too moist straight from your supplier regardless of what they told you. You have to measure it if uncertain. Sorry if this is old news to you.

Just reading the thread, I'm wondering if you are waiting too long to start shutting the air down. Best approach is to watch the flame and learn when the secondaries can start to work. That's the time to start shutting down, rather than go by stove top temps alone, or a certain amount of time. It's the inside temp that's important. Secondaries start to work at around 1100 F in the box. The sooner you can turn the air down and still maintain secondary burning, the more efficient you will be. That is a very important part of the learning curve and will affect your burn times and efficiency overall.

Heating certain spaces can be difficult. It sounds like you are realistic about peripheral rooms and such, but I wonder how much you are losing to the upstairs and perhaps inadequate insulation, but it sounds like you have been upgrading some things like windows. Another potential source of heat loss in an insert installed in a fireplace on an outside wall is that some heat will radiate outside unless there is some kind of protection for that.

One more thing before I get a headache (LOL), Do you have an outside source of primary air, so called OAK (outside air kit) so that you are not drawing a lot of air in through the house. That can be a killer sometimes, especially when the air control is up.