Should basement ceiling be insulated?

[boudreauln]

Happy new year's to all, from a nippy -4 here in central Maine!

Question: We had a good-sized pellet stove installed a few years ago in the basement of our ranch. Removing the basement door and installing fans at the bottom of the stairs has allowed it to do a great job of heating the house, and we usually only keep it on the lowest number (although admittedly we had to boost it a bit in this weather!). What I'm wondering is whether or not the insulation in the ceiling of the basement is impeding the flow of heat upward. The house came that way; we didn't install it. I think by removing it, more heat would leak up, but my husband doesn't think it would help. Opinions?

 

[begreen]

You are correct. The insulation will impede the heat migration upstairs and will limit it to the stairway only. But the insulation will keep basement noise better contained in the basement too. You will need to decide which best suits your lifestyle.

If the house is heating well I would probably leave it be.

 

[St_Earl]

i would think that without the insulation, the floors will be heated more and that would have an effect on the upstairs temps.
more so if the stove is running steadily and has a chance to warm the floors over time.

but as begreen says, "if the house is heating well..."

 

[reg1952]

Take out a few sections and see how much warmer the floor is in that area. That way you wont be making a big mess only to find out you don't like the results.

 

[iceguy4]

But the insulation will keep basement noise better contained

NOISE> I actually insulated my basement ceiling because my new fangled oil burner (15 sec pre and post purge start with a thump and roar like a space heater) Boiler. Nice unit..it doesn't run much now. If were me, I would take my time and remove it below colder rooms and regulate upstairs like that. Remove insulation till your furnace "runs no more"

 

[iceguy4]

Happy new year's to all, from a nippy -4 here in central Maine!

Hey I forgot to welcome you! You shoulda seen this place in 2013

 

[mass_burner]

If you always rely on the basement stove then removing the insulation would be better. But if you don't it will make your upstairs colder. What us the basement used for, lifestyle wise?

 

[GeHmTS]

What I'm wondering is whether or not the insulation in the ceiling of the basement is impeding the flow of heat upward.

Probably so since heat is restricted through insulation. However, if you're getting enough heat, then let it be. You can always add registers to the basement ceiling if you need more heat in the future.

One thing that you ought to check is your hot water pipe from your hot water heater. Make sure that it has insulation around it. If not, buy some at home depot and wrap up your hot water pipes to improve efficiency.

Our basement is insulated and I don't really have a good reason for removing it right now as our stove is on the first floor where we hang out.

 

[legrandice]

When I was growing up my parents had a stove in the basement and no insulation. It was always awesome to walk on the floor above it! They got a lot of heat upstairs. They insulated the sills all the way around. I would pull it out in the area above the stove to test and see.

 

[Pellet-King]

NOISE> I actually insulated my basement ceiling because my new fangled oil burner (15 sec pre and post purge start with a thump and roar like a space heater) Boiler. Nice unit..it doesn't run much now. If were me, I would take my time and remove it below colder rooms and regulate upstairs like that. Remove insulation till your furnace "runs no more"

my bedroom is below my furnace too, unfinished side of basement with no insulation, reason why i love my pellet no furnace coming on !!

 

[boudreauln]

Thanks to everyone for their helpful replies. The basement is used for heating, storage and laundry. Noise isn't too much of an issue; it's a small house, so beyond the humming of the furnace or pellet stove, we simply don't make noise down there if someone is sleeping upstairs.

I decided to get it over with and rip all the insulation out, as it wouldn't hurt either way and sections had fallen out long ago anyway. Very exhausting, messy project. I watched for a noticeable temperature change upstairs but didn't see much, especially in the deep freeze that we are in now. However, when I read St_Earl's post about warming the floors, I went into the back bedroom and reached down - and the floor was warm for the first time all winter!! That alone made the effort worth it.

 

[iceguy4]

use the good pieces to insulate the "box" (wood between floor and basement walls)

 

[St_Earl]

from what i've heard, mold can be a big issue using fiberglass batting against cold outside walls when the space is heated.
expanding foam is usually favored in that application.

 

[moey]

some good stuff on this page:

http://www.homeconstructionimprovement.com/how-to-insulate-basement-walls/

 

[mass_burner]

from what i've heard, mold can be a big issue using fiberglass batting against cold outside walls when the space is heated.
expanding foam is usually favored in that application.

I agree. To start, you can diy spray foam where the rim joists meet the foundation.

 

[Mt Bob]

From my experience you probably will not notice big upstairs temp. change especially if you have carpet,but floors and carpet will be warmer.Floor vents are they way to go,don't forget air return.Only do floor vents if legal in your case!

 

[wwert]

If the insulation has a vapor barrier, paper or otherwise it should be removed. You are trapping moisture in the insulation which leads to mold and then rot.

 

[N_Blueth]

I'm a little late to the party on this one but you may want to reconsider removing the insulation. If your basement is unfinished, and it sound like it is, then there needs to be a fire block between the two levels. You can accomplish this with insulation or drywall/drop ceiling. This block is meant to give you time to escape should there be a fire. If a fire was to start in the basement while you were sleeping you wouldn't notice it right away thus would have very little time to escape if there was not a fire block installed. This is minimum code in almost all jurisdictions.

I say leave it be and use the fans. That's what I do.

 

[moey]

I'm a little late to the party on this one but you may want to reconsider removing the insulation. If your basement is unfinished, and it sound like it is, then there needs to be a fire block between the two levels. You can accomplish this with insulation or drywall/drop ceiling. This block is meant to give you time to escape should there be a fire. If a fire was to start in the basement while you were sleeping you wouldn't notice it right away thus would have very little time to escape if there was not a fire block installed. This is minimum code in almost all jurisdictions.

I say leave it be and use the fans. That's what I do.

The floor is considered the firestop. I would love to read a code that says I have to have drywall on my basement ceiling or insulation.

 

[N_Blueth]

Then why was there insulation there in the first place?

The floor is NOT considered a firestop.

Per the 2009 International Residential Code
R302.11 Fireblocking.
In combustible construction, fireblocking shall be provided to cut off all concealed draft openings (both vertical and horizontal) and to form an effective fire barrier between stories, and between a top story and the roof space.

Key words here are between stories.

Compliance with this code is met by installing insulation (bat or blown in), gypsum board or drop panels. There is a new spray on coating that doesn't burn and isn't in the IRC but most inspectors allow it as long as you have a letter on hand stating the install instructions and scientific data proving it works.

 

[moey]

Then why was there insulation there in the first place?

The floor is NOT considered a firestop.

Am I missing something obvious in this?

OSB and plywood are considered fire stops which generally is what a floor is. I believe its in section 602.8.1 according to a google search http://michicode.com/tag/firestopping

 

[DBNH22]

Happy new year's to all, from a nippy -4 here in central Maine!

Question: We had a good-sized pellet stove installed a few years ago in the basement of our ranch. Removing the basement door and installing fans at the bottom of the stairs has allowed it to do a great job of heating the house, and we usually only keep it on the lowest number (although admittedly we had to boost it a bit in this weather!). What I'm wondering is whether or not the insulation in the ceiling of the basement is impeding the flow of heat upward. The house came that way; we didn't install it. I think by removing it, more heat would leak up, but my husband doesn't think it would help. Opinions?

The pellet stove in the basement is the only heat source for the entire home? The way you described how you're heating your home sounds incredibly inefficient. If I were you I'd be more concerned with the insulation and air sealing on the basement walls and rim joists. If you have insulation and air barriers on the basement ceiling then you're going to be forcing that heat to go somewhere else, most likely out the basement walls and rim joists.

Am I the only one that thinks heating a home this way is not ideal?

 

[N_Blueth]

Am I missing something obvious in this?

OSB and plywood are considered fire stops which generally is what a floor is. I believe its in section 602.8.1 according to a google search http://michicode.com/tag/firestopping

This is only half correct, nominal framing and structural sheathing can be used as a fireblock - up to 10 feet in horizontal spaces. Areas in excess of this MUST have an approved nonrigid material i.e. batts or blankets of insulation. In other words, if the stud/joist area is longer than 10 feet code requires a noncombustable be installed to slow the fire down. I'm guessing the original poster has a large enough basement to require insulation be installed.

I quote the actual code, not google.
R302.11.1.1 Batts or blankets of mineral or glass fiber.
Batts or blankets of mineral or glass fiber or other approved nonrigid materials shall be permitted for compliance with the 10-foot (3048 mm) horizontal fireblocking in walls constructed using parallel rows of studs or staggered studs.

I take safety very seriously, hence my recommendation to leave the insulation in place and keep using the fans at the bottom of the stairs.