Should dealers take care of warrenty issues for stoves bought off the internet?

[MountainStoveGuy]

This is a yes or no topic. There is no inbetween. The point of this thread is to help educate the public about warrenties for stoves purchased online.
Here are a few points about stoves bought elsewear then the dealer.
Warrenty claims for stoves usally pay $40 bucks flat plus parts.

During the heat of the season, delaers are fixing there own problems, and servicing there own customers, and will usually absolutly refuse to help you if you didnt buy your stove from them. Who could blame them? The customers that bought stoves from the dealer expect a level of service. Why does the consumer that buys online expect to get the same service?

Unless your comfortable fixing your own problems, dont buy stoves of the internet. If i sale a stove that is out of my service area, i make it real clear to the limitations to the new owner.

I get this often in my shop. Its hard for people to understandl. They think its similar to the car industry, and its not. If a local dealer goes out of business, and i pick up there line, i do not pick up there warrenty. This is another important fact about the DEALER you bought your stove from. Make sure they have been around a while, and ask them how long they have had the line your are currently looking at. IF they go belly up, so will your warrenty.

 

[HarryBack]

I'll service them if on my own terms, and in my own timeframe.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

does that mean you will charge them? or go out for a free service call on the stove they bought online?

 

[elkimmeg]

Any day now it will be snowing enough to plow. WE have many storms that drop heavy snow That's when my phone starts ringing Most are one time customers or the occasional one where his snow blower can not cut it. I take care of all my regular customers first. and cash only should I take on any additional driveways. Carpentry, I get a lot of calls to correct jobs that did not come out as expected. There are no discounts here. Many times I look at what is done and head back to my truck. We all know that once my hammer touches that job then, I assume responsibility. I think you have to weigh out whether you want to get involved. It does no good to have installers on the payroll with no work. Then again in a way you are supporting your competition and enchouraging more internet sales. I seldom shop Home Crapo, because they contract installations, that directly competes against me

 

[HarryBack]

Actually, it means that the warrantee portion of the call will be free.....but I expect to be paid for my travel time. We dont sell stoves sold over the internet, so our issue here is a small one. The problem we have is servicing stoves my competition sells, and either they wont come out for a month to service it, or theyve gone out of business. In the case of my competition still in business, we try to be as nice as possible, we make sure they understand that although their unit is in warrantee, its warranted by the selling dealer. Then theyve got some reason why they dont want them there...they dont treat their customers well from what Ive heard...and I explain that when we get the time, we'll go out and service it (this is usually within 2-3 days), and I also get them to understand that if the broken part is warranted, it wont cost them anything but my travel time. Usually folks understand this. They know abt gas, insurance, the price a tech costs/hr, etc. My travel time....minimum charge is $100....then 80$/hr after that, in 1/2 hr increments. If they dont agree, we dont service the unit. The dealer who went out of business, often his accounts are well over an hour away...gotta get paid for that, and the paltry warrantee amount just doesnt cut it.

We try to be as nice as possible, of course hoping for future business and referrals...you never know who you are talking to. Some dealers must really be awful, because we get quite alot of thankyous just for listening to them and giving suggestions. And after 3-6 years, after the warrantee is over, you really CAN make money on fixing these things. We can often even guess over the phone at how much. We do get the occaisional pain in the butt....his stove is a year over warrantee, but he still think it should be covered, or he insists he isnt gonna pay a dime since the stove is still under warrantee even though we didnt sell it, etc. We also dont service stove brands we dont sell, and that alleviates many problems, especially with internet sales. I keep alot of parts for what we sell, I cant imagine stocking parts for so many different models/brands!

 

[Roospike]

yes.

Its a bugger , i know . Most companies push the dealer sale only but it dont always work that way.
If a dealer offers brand Y then they should take the good,bad and the ugly and stand behind the company they are selling for tho its a groan with out the original sale but its not a free service as the dealer does get paid.

I think HarryBack put it very well with his statement.

Have been in sales for many years its not all 100% perfect for the seller and it never will be.
Its kinda the feeling i get reading HarryBacks post , the good ,bad and the ugly and he is always smiling and offering so tho i might not of bought from him .....this is someone i would go out of my way to suggest buying from. He might of not of got my sale but he could end up with 20 people that i pointed his way because if his standing as a seller and to the point of being a friend.

HarryBack might be calling me names behind my back and i wouldnt know it but the wall of value and salesmanship he puts forth and shines is something that is a must in sales.

As for being in sales the up front smile and bend over backwards mentality is a hard one to do every day but them damn a$$holes that didnt buy from my store can sure in the hell send a lot of business my way , sometimes the 1 loss can equal 10 sales.

"Make that lemonade tho the lemon walked in your door , he knows a lot of other fruits that has $$$"

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

This is true, i actually wont stock stoves that are sold online, so the problem is minimal, its more of a hypothetical situation in my case. And, again, im with you. if someone comes to me that bought a stove down the street, and have a dead end problem, i try to help. Simply because word of mouth is golden, and i honestly like to help people. When i was a lennox and VC dealer, i ran into this alot. People would buy online and expect us to fix it. FWIW, im one of the worst kind of dealers in the stove world. We are a cash and carry dealer and use subs to install our work. The same subs do the warrenty work, and just bill us. So i find myself out in the field alot fixing small problems weither its out stove or not. Its cheap for my company to send me out, its expensive to get the subs out there to fix someone elses problem.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

yes.

Its a bugger , i know . Most companies push the dealer sale only but it dont always work that way.
If a dealer offers brand Y then they should take the good,bad and the ugly and stand behind the company they are selling for tho its a groan with out the original sale but its not a free service as the dealer does get paid.

I think HarryBack put it very well with his statement.

Have been in sales for many years its not all 100% perfect for the seller and it never will be.
Its kinda the feeling i get reading HarryBacks post , the good ,bad and the ugly and he is always smiling and offering so tho i might not of bought from him .....this is someone i would go out of my way to suggest buying from. He might of not of got my sale but he could end up with 20 people that i pointed his way because if his standing as a seller and to the point of being a friend.

HarryBack might be calling me names behind my back and i wouldnt know it but the wall of value and salesmanship he puts forth and shines is something that is a must in sales.

As for being in sales the up front smile and bend over backwards mentality is a hard one to do every day but them damn a$$hole that didnt buy from my store can sure in the he(( send a lot of business my way , sometimes the 1 loss can equal 10 sales.

"Make that lemonade tho the lemon walked in your door , he knows a lot of other fruits that has $$$"

So dealers should just eat it, for the chance of a future sale.
Nahh... i will take my chances. And help folks that need help, not ones that come in and talk to you for a hour and buy online to save a few hundred bucks.
Its a moot point anyway, if your a good dealer, people will buy from you because you do a good job before the sale. And, as Harry pointed out, most dealers dont have to compete with online sales.
Since we dont service, the three to six year payback for future customers wont apply, wich is another good reason to buy from dealers who service and install.
Lets not confuse this issue with local dealers who suck, and the other local dealer saves the day. This is stricly a "if i buy online, will you come fix my stove for the online dealer" In my part of the country, they will kick your butt out of the showroom, expecially if you were in there getting the complete "education" and decided to buy it on the net.

I brought this up for discussion, i assure you, that i help folks out in need. But it doenst seem right that people expect small business owners to pick up the tab for the manufacture and the online dealer.

 

[Roospike]

So dealers should just eat it, for the chance of a future sale.
Nahh... i will take my chances. And help folks that need help, not ones that come in and talk to you for a hour and buy online to save a few hundred bucks.
Its a moot point anyway, if your a good dealer, people will buy from you because you do a good job before the sale. And, as Harry pointed out, most dealers dont have to compete with online sales.
Since we dont service, the three to six year payback for future customers wont apply, wich is another good reason to buy from dealers who service and install.
Lets not confuse this issue with local dealers who suck, and the other local dealer saves the day. This is stricly a "if i buy online, will you come fix my stove for the online dealer" In my part of the country, they will kick your butt out of the showroom, expecially if you were in there getting the complete "education" and decided to buy it on the net.

I brought this up for discussion, i assure you, that i help folks out in need. But it doenst seem right that people expect small business owners to pick up the tab for the manufacture and the online dealer.

Well as for the person that walks in the door and talks to the salesman and then buys on line is a whole different can of worms.

But at least the local dealer had the chance to sell to this buyer as they came in to there store , what happens after that is up to the dealer and the buyer. How do you know there going to buy on line when a customer comes into the store ? You dont , you take them under your wing and make them yours ........... your new friend .

Hey Ryan , i know how you feel brother , I "feel" the same way and I'm right there with ya , but that feeling CAN NOT go out on the sales floor.

Just my .02

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

and at that point, if you loose the customer to the internet, its the DEALERS fault. No quesion.
But, when that person wants you to come fix there stove on your time on a stove that they bought somewhere else, thats were it gets sticky.

 

[Roospike]

TURE THAT my friend ! again , its a bugger.

 

[Kenny1]

From a customer:

One of the main things I was looking for when I bought was a complete solution.

I went with a stove store that installed their own stuff, with their own staff.

The last thing I wanted (after dropping a bundle of money) was to have a problem, and have the dealer and the installer himming and hawing, finger pointing, etc.

I can see where you guys are coming from, if you aren't going to make money on the warrenty claim. I mean, I don't work for free either.

BTW, are these warrenty issues mainly pellet stoves, or wood stoves?

 

[babalu87]

If I were a dealer it would be, like has been said, on my terms

However, if a consumer who bought a stove online was enterprising enough to write the manufacturer they would probably get the work done.

Example
To Vermont Castings
Hello, I am Jim Smith from Boulder Colorado and I recently purchased one of your stoves and I have been having some issues with the catalytic converter and am in need of warranty work. The closest shop to me is in Allenspark but he is not willing to do the warranty work because I didnt purchase the stove from his shop. I purchased the stove from a shop in Nebraska on e-bay. Is there some way to remedy this situation?

Sincerely
Jim Smith

 

[Shane]

The only way that I do warranty work on a stove I did not sell is if the homeowner or stove company will pay my regular service fee.
As for dealers standing behind the product they sell even if that unit didn't go out of their store. Doesn't work that way. If anyone is running their shop that way I want ot put money down that they're out of business in a year. Now if the stove companies would actually pay for the service that's different. And it's worth the trade off when you have sold a stove, to go to the warranty work for cut rate labor charges.
Another thing to consider is that even if you do get paid from the stove company 9 times out of 10 it takes 90 days to get your money. This affects your cash flow, and quite frankly I could be earning interest off that money in that 90 days. Which brings me to the other downside. Warranty work is reimbursed in the form of a credit with the company. So not ever having real cash money in my hand from all that work is enough to deter me from doing any warranty work for any unit that is not mine.

We learned our lesson when we took over Whitfield line from another dealer. We took the service work thinking we were picking up 200 customers and a great line. Turned out the line had more problems than a Yugo. We did thousands of dollars in warranty work on these damn things. In return we recieved no protection from internet sales and had three dealers pop up in our area in a matter of a month. I do not do anyone else's warranty work anymore period. If I've lost business because of it I guess that's the price I pay. But atleast I'm still in business!

 

[JMF1]

Sounds as if the dealers need to get with their manufacturers to get a better warranty repair situation in place. I definately can respect the position of the dealer when he cannot even make close to his rate on a warranty call.......we all have to eat. On the other hand, the manufacture has a responsibility to stand behind it's product and provide reasonable warranty solutions as well. I try to support local business as much as I can, keep the money here at home ya know, and I wouldn't expect one of these guys to "jump" to accommdate my warranty work if he had his "own customers" in line also.

$40.00 plus parts? That's ridiculus!

Just my opinion.....and you all know what they say about opinions.......................

 

[BrotherBart]

In a lot of ways this is a manufacturer's issue that they need to address and not just dump it back on the dealers. Somebody sold that Internet dealerthat stove. That is the point where they need to address it. Somewhere down the line the manufacturer was more than glad to take some dealer's money for the stove. And shipped them the stove. Now when there is an issue they leave the local dealer holding the empty bag. If they don't want to compensate local dealers for correcting defects they need stop the Internet seller from having a supply of stoves. Period.

Even non-Internet sales can come into this realm. What if somebody buys one of those guaranteed till hell freezes over PE stoves. Why shouldn't the local dealer in the new location be compensated by the manufacturer for dealing with warranty issues?

Knowing this stuff influenced my latest stove purchase. I purchased a stove made by a company that says if you have issues contact them, not the dealer. I currently have a door sealing issue and Mike and the folks at England Stove Works are right on top of getting it resolved. But in the mix I realized that the work that would normally be done by a dealer has to be done by me. I knew that going in so it isn't a problem. A pain in the butt, but it was part of the deal. But if it had been purchased from one of many other maker's, for sure I would expect to call who ever handles them locally and just say "get out here and fix it". Most stove buyers have no way of knowing it works any differently.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Sounds as if the dealers need to get with their manufacturers to get a better warranty repair situation in place. I definately can respect the position of the dealer when he cannot even make close to his rate on a warranty call.......we all have to eat. On the other hand, the manufacture has a responsibility to stand behind it's product and provide reasonable warranty solutions as well. I try to support local business as much as I can, keep the money here at home ya know, and I wouldn't expect one of these guys to "jump" to accommdate my warranty work if he had his "own customers" in line also.

$40.00 plus parts? That's ridiculus!

Just my opinion.....and you all know what they say about opinions.......................

you hit the nail on the head, these manufactures need to buck up and pay a reasonable fee for labor. If the labor was reasonable, i would send my crew out any service call, no matter where they bought the stove. At the moment, it cost the store money to fix other dealers problems, and that just not right. Last year, quadrafire tried to force all the dealers to service any stove bought any where. They did not increase there warrenty fee. They basicly demanded it with no compensation. That went over like a lead balloon.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

In a lot of ways this is a manufacturer's issue that they need to address and not just dump it back on the dealers. Somebody sold that Internet dealerthat stove. That is the point where they need to address it. Somewhere down the line the manufacturer was more than glad to take some dealer's money for the stove. And shipped them the stove. Now when there is an issue they leave the local dealer holding the empty bag. If they don't want to compensate local dealers for correcting defects they need stop the Internet seller from having a supply of stoves. Period.

Even non-Internet sales can come into this realm. What if somebody buys one of those guaranteed till hell freezes over PE stoves. Why shouldn't the local dealer in the new location be compensated by the manufacturer for dealing with warranty issues?

Knowing this stuff influenced my latest stove purchase. I purchased a stove made by a company that says if you have issues contact them, not the dealer. I currently have a door sealing issue and Mike and the folks at England Stove Works are right on top of getting it resolved. But in the mix I realized that the work that would normally be done by a dealer has to be done by me. I knew that going in so it isn't a problem. A pain in the butt, but it was part of the deal. But if it had been purchased from one of many other maker's, for sure I would expect to call who ever handles them locally and just say "get out here and fix it". Most stove buyers have no way of knowing it works any differently.

This issue is one of the reasons why manufactures can pull your dealership if you sell online. Most wont put up with it, but some do. IMO, if your selling stoves online, and your selling 400 or 500 stoves of one manufacture, and the manufacture isnt recieving calles everyday from these customers with problems, then there going to look the other way.

I complety agree that most consumers dont know it works any differently, and this is not there fault. Its the manufactures fault. Thats why i started this thread

 

[JMF1]

MSG, it's funny you say that......last year I bought a used Quad, I needed a copy of the owners manual and had to get firebrick for it. The local Quad dealer never even called back with any info after I spoke to someone there and was told "no problem, I'll have someone get back with you". They had just switched from beind a Lopi/Avalon dealerto Quadrafire dealer.........it's all starting to make sense now..............

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

well, actually that does not make sense.
They should have sold you the bricks, there never under warrenty anyway. IT sounds to me like they just dropped the ball.
I will help trouble shoot and order any parts for any body. I work at the shop much like i work on here. Its only when they expect me to eat a service call. Heck, i will even process there warrenty and get them parts if they seem like they know what there doing, and let them fix it there self. If someone needs something, and its under warrenty, IF it seems reasonable to me, they will get the parts there asking for. For example, if you have a gas stove and you come in and tell me that your valve is bad, your not getting squat. If you come in and tell me the load thermopile reading is 125, and the no load reading is 650, then your getting a valve. .

 

[JMF1]

MSG, I was refering to their general attitude and that what you said about them being forced into warranty work may have affected their attitude as a whole. I do realize my request was not a warranty issue. It just seems that if you had just switched to a new line of product that you might want to be helpfull to whoever has it, for potential business down the road.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

i would have been
FWIW, quadrafire brick sets are a nightmare. The factory requires the owner to fax in the copy of the pattern from there manual. They keep changing the pattern and they cant keep it strait. Its the BIGGEST pain in the butt to order bricks from quad, as a consumer and a dealer. Folks, keep that manual in a safe place, the 3100 stove has 5 different patterns for the same stove.

 

[tutu_sue]

Wow I didn't realize how the system works. I see how it can make for unhappy and profit losses for dealers and unhappy customers who will tell their friends not to buy woodstoves. Wake up stove manufacturers!!

When my washer with a 10 year warranty broke in it's 6th year, I had to call the authorized service co and I had to pay $120 service call charge, parts were free. I gladly paid it knowing that the new motor, circuit board and labor by the quarter hour out of warranty would have cost me 4 or times times or more than that. I believe the service company gets service call and parts $$$ from the manufacturer in addition to what I paid. I'm happy, the service co. is happy and the manufacturer may have a repeat customer after the warranty runs out.

 

[Roospike]

A few notes for the record:

#1 if one was to buy a stove off the net and had an issue with a part then the parts should be covered , if you have to have a servicing dealer come out then there should be no issue of the Internet buyer paying for a service call . it should be paid per the Internet buyer.

Now this should not apply to a stove buyer that bought a stove in this town , moved and needs service in a different town within warranty or buys a stove from said town and the dealer changes hands or stove changes dealers , this should still be fully covered.

#2 I had talked with chimneysweeponline.com about wood stoves and i was told stright out per them that its recommend to go through your local dealer first per buying a stove and that they were there for the buyers (per Internet sales) that dont have a local dealer around and or other issues that do not allow the purchase of the offered stove locally.

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My questions to the dealers are ,
How often does this issue come up were a Internet sale wants warranty work from you ?
Are we talking about 1-2 time a year or 1-2 times a month ?
Are the net sales per warranty work Pellet stoves , wood stoves , gas stoves ? (what the % of each from one to the other)
And if wood stoves what kinda of warranty work is needed ? are we talking a broken brick , a bent control arm , a torn gasket ? Something a part could be picked up and replaced per the stove owner or are we talking a broken weld seam or such?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

labor is only coverd by the dealerthat sold the stove, parts will be covered by any dealer any wear.
It comes up most often when a cutomer buys there stove out of the service area.. example would be that someone in boulder drove to nebraska to buy there stove because it was on sale or something...
It happens 4 or 5 times a season
Woodstoves are typically trouble free, its the pellet and gas that usually need warrenty work.

Chimney sweep online is correct, they try to not sell in other dealers service areas, and thats ok. But most of the major brands have dealer representation in most areas. If someone bought a hearthstone from chimney sweeponline and the door frame came in crooked, i would tell them to call chimney sweep online. If chimney sweep online was willing to pay my company the time it takes to file a warrrenty claim and go out and fix it i would do it.