Should Manufactures have a 1-800 Number for Customer Support?

[elkimmeg]

Shane raised a valid point about Manufacture’s customer service 1-800 number
He feels it would take repair work away from the Brick and Mortar dealers. I see some definite positives to it being implemented correctly. The consumer has a complaint about his stove. Judging from the amount of post here, most complaints are draft issues.
Very few are due to a faulty stove.

What if the manufacturer could pre qualify warranty work? This would eliminate a lot of unnecessary unproductive service calls. The manufacture could also state, that only warranty issues, Would be covered and that service charges would be required for calls/ visits for out of warranty issues. Coming from the manufacturer isolates the dealer listening, to just paid
XXX and its your duty to show up and naturally I do not expect to pay for the call

There also could be a procedure in how to file a warranty claim like a form. Part of the claim would be proof of a proper installation IE signed building permit of affidavit from the hired installer faxed to the manufacturer. Stating it was installed according to manufactures listing and being code compliant

Many consumers do not know, that smaller dealers use a distributor for ordering and that include parts.
An Industry I deal with everyday is setup this way, my local lumberyard. I order Andersen Windows they, call their distributor in my case that is Bosco. Bosso delivers the windows to the lumberyard and either I pick them up or they get delivered. If a grill is missing or damaged I have to go to the local lumberyard they in turn call Bosco.
Maybe large lumberyards that do a lot of business with Andersen,, have direct line into Andersen
In the stove industry your stove gets delivered with a damaged leg. That small dealer goes through the distributor who in turn calls the manufacturer, for that Oslo Leg.

The dealer makes the call and it is out of his hands till the distributor and manufacturer responds. You could have the best dealer in the world, but he has a lackadaisical distributor and that part takes a long time in being replaced. Many distributors carry or front for more than one manufacturer.

Consumers what is your take? Should manufactures have a customer service 1-800 number?/

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I don't think it matters to most if it's a 1-800 number or not.

If the policy is in place that they have to call before any warrenty work they will call.

I suppose a 1-800 number may reduce a liability issue if a customer could not call for some reason or another.

With lawsuits the way they are, I bet one could sue because the company did not give them a cell phone.

 

[Shane]

Elk,
It's not so much the 1-800 # for customer support, it's the selling of replacement parts factory direct. Even if the prices are at retail and even if only 1-2 sales were lost per year that is still 1-2 sales that I don't get. I don't think that is fair after the investment in advertising, showroom space etc. has been made by the small dealer. Why should the replacement parts sales go factory direct? The only situation in which this is reasonable is when a dealer is not a "good" dealer and getting the parts for the customer, or if they've gone out of business.
I can see it from both sides being a consumer myself. Like I've said in another post maybe it's just the way the industry is going. If that is what the consumer wants that is what the consumer will get.
Another angle is this, and maybe the fellow from Englander can chime in here. If a manufacturer offers customer support through online sales and phone support that is more people that he manufacturer has to employ. These extra employees increase his cost of doing business. Doesn't that end up raising my price on product?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

if customers are calling the manufacture, that takes there time away from me and prevents me in giving my customers 100%. The wait time is already bad for tech support from manufactures.

 

[elkimmeg]

MSG On the flip side the manufacturer is doing you a favor by qualifying the customer prior to placing the call to you .It cuts down the unproductive waste of time calls you have to deal with
And that calls you get are qualified for your attention.

I'm not in favor either way but posted to see how receptive the idea is. It might be, that it plain does not work in this specialty industry

To Shane the guy that mails orders parts was not comming to you for service anyways. Chances are he would have been a PITA
You were better off not dealing with him anyways. Believe me, I can afford 1 or 2 less of these type customers

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

my issue is the time its going to take for the manufacture to solve my problems. Its already unaceptable. If every person who had a smokey fireplace, or a down pilot light was calling, it would take them a week to get back to my call. I could care less if they want to order parts direct. My only concern is the amount of time that it takes them to take care of me. There are so many questions the dealer can answer, it rare that problems with fireplaces are due to factory defects, its mostly installation and user error. We can flag 99.9% of those calls as the dealer, and then we can call the manufacture when there realy is a problem.
It is a waste of time sometimes, but thats what we are here for. Im not in the biz to tell people to call 1-800-i-care-less. I want to help them, and have them give me good referalls.

 

[Hogwildz]

P.E. has a 1-800 number, but not in my manual. I found theirs online and did use it.
I for one think all manufacturers should have a 1-800 number. P.E. and some other makers are in Canada. I pay out the wazoo for calls to Canada, or anywhere outside the U.S. So I for one am gald the do have one.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Elk,
It's not so much the 1-800 # for customer support, it's the selling of replacement parts factory direct. Even if the prices are at retail and even if only 1-2 sales were lost per year that is still 1-2 sales that I don't get. I don't think that is fair after the investment in advertising, showroom space etc. has been made by the small dealer. Why should the replacement parts sales go factory direct? The only situation in which this is reasonable is when a dealer is not a "good" dealer and getting the parts for the customer, or if they've gone out of business.
I can see it from both sides being a consumer myself. Like I've said in another post maybe it's just the way the industry is going. If that is what the consumer wants that is what the consumer will get.
Another angle is this, and maybe the fellow from Englander can chime in here. If a manufacturer offers customer support through online sales and phone support that is more people that he manufacturer has to employ. These extra employees increase his cost of doing business. Doesn't that end up raising my price on product?

im going to ring in on this only because i got singled out ( thanks shane lol) our support system is based on a DIY customer base. so with HD and lowes and others being our distributers (so to speak) their level of expertise is not as high as the dealer based dealers such as you guys. therefore we do want customers contacting us directly. as for driving up costs, it really doesnt, most of my guys actually work in the lab or on the assembly line in quality control during the summer when call volume is very low and needs to address an issue with a unit is not as urgent to be taken care of as quickly in most cases (not saying it isnt important, but its summer and you dont have to get a unit running immediatly but in a timely fashion)we would take care of these calls as they come in and i would stick around late and make a few callbacks after hours if needed, most times its just sombody that wants to replace his gaskets or somthing.in the fall when call volume gets higher i bring my guys back into the call center. our production schedule is actually slower in the winter months (wierd aint it) so actually for us it allows us to use personnel that are not only knowledgable in the manufacturing and testing of the units, it allows them feedback which is helpful to the manufacturing process, and, it allows us to keep key personnel busy year round, so it works out for us quite well in more ways than one.

i missed one thing that i can point out as well. if a customer needs a part under warranty by contacting us directly we ship the part directly, which saves the store having to "relay" the issue to us and the part to them. of course we do the DIY thing so it is different , dealer service would have the dealer make a service call to install the part. i have never worked in that system so i cant really accurately compare the two. so i cant make a judgement just float my opinion. i do think when all is said and done, working through the dealer in a "dealer serviced" unit is the best way to go, but it doesnt work well that way at all in the DIY market.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

MSG has a very valid point, a manufacturer should not take a week to respond to a dealer, question for MSG, is the week it is taking just to get a response? or to get you what you need to fix the problem? i dont know what you mean in that respect. if it takes them a week just to get around to contacting you about a warranty issue thats way too long in my opinion. if they have you parts in hand to fix the problem , thats a bit closer to reasonable, but its still a while for a customer to have to wait in my opinion. what if a customer really wants to get his unit up quickly , even to the extent of paying for expidited shipping? if it takes a week for the distributer to get back to you , it doesnt allow that option. again i do not really know how the dealer based system works as i havent been in it, so i may be reading this wrong. if so my apologies

 

[begreen]

If the manufacturer is going to have an 800 support line, then real world training is needed for the support person. Otherwise it doesn't help a whole lot.

When I was baffled by the issue I was having with my 3CB, I exhausted the dealer's knowledge. They gave me the 800 number for Jotul tech support. That didn't help a lot. The tech support guy had never lit a fire in this model stove and was just reading from the same database that the dealer had. The support guy was ready to replace the stove. That's when I got a glass of wine and sat down and meditated on the issue and figured out that it wasn't the stove's problem, but the way I had seated the top.

If anything it is a documentation problem that Jotul could solve by adding a line to the part about breaking out the knockout for venting the stove. Something like, "when resetting the top, be sure that the top is level and parallel with the stove body and the top gasket is seated tightly" would help a lot.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

If the manufacturer is going to have an 800 support line, then real world training is needed for the support person. Otherwise it doesn't help a whole lot.

When I was baffled by the issue I was having with my 3CB, I exhausted the dealer's knowledge. They gave me the 800 number for Jotul tech support. That didn't help a lot. The tech support guy had never lit a fire in this model stove and was just reading from the same database that the dealer had. The support guy was ready to replace the stove. That's when I got a glass of wine and sat down and meditated on the issue and figured out that it wasn't the stove's problem, but the way I had seated the top.

If anything it is a documentation problem that Jotul could solve by adding a line to the part about breaking out the knockout for venting the stove. Something like, "when resetting the top, be sure that the top is level and parallel with the stove body and the top gasket is seated tightly" would help a lot.

did you point that out to the manufacturer? i mean after you figured it out, if it were my stove i would have loved to hear about it especially if i hadnt caught it when you called in and i couldnt fix it.

 

[begreen]

I did call the tech support guy back who seemed indifferent. Hopefully he added it to their database. I also called the dealer who seemed a lot more appreciative that I had taken the initiative.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

that makes the dealer smarter than the tech guy in my opinion. " the path to true knowledge is knowing that you dont know" one of my favorite quotes

 

[Greg Ray]

Just make sure you have a good dealer, I bought an FPI PRODUCT and my dealer was trying to work with me and got screwed by FPI on parts!! He does not carry any FPI PRODUCT NOW!! Went to some other stove dealers that stand behind their product! Any dealers out there that got screwed by the stove company?? It can hurt your business and your company if you do not have a good product! Most have a 1-800 # with someone that does not have a clue what is going on!

 

[DriftWood]

Yes Manufactures should have a 1-800 Number for Customer Support, in the manuals. After calling the store that sold me this Hearthstone stove about the placement of the stove top thermometer, He said call Hearthstone, as he had no idea. I got the 1-800 number from him and instructions to ask for dealer-teck as he was referring me. Lets face facts other than MSG most salesmen don't have a clue about every day 24/7 product use, unless they own one or fire a display all day long.

 

[stoveomatic]

Just make sure you have a good dealer, I bought an FPI PRODUCT and my dealer was trying to work with me and got screwed by FPI on parts!! He does not carry any FPI PRODUCT NOW!! Went to some other stove dealers that stand behind their product! Any dealers out there that got screwed by the stove company?? It can hurt your business and your company if you do not have a good product! Most have a 1-800 # with someone that does not have a clue what is going on!

I would not agree with that! I have been doing this for 8yrs and was a production supervisor for the build season, Stoveguy was the one who trained me years ago and between the two of us we trained 95% of our tech support in real world stove building, firing and installation. We believe that all of our techs should know all of our product line and if not we get asked 20questions a day. The philosophy is that the only stupid question is the one not asked! Stoveguy has me looking into other facettes of the industry so that we can better help our customers. I can agree that not everyone in the business takes the time to learn what they are talking about but some of us do try!

 

[BrotherBart]

A stove manuacturer pretty much is better off to go one way or the other. Not mix it up on support. If they try to provide dealer support and direct customer support then the dealer gets hung in the middle. I think they should do it the way it is now. Either they provide direct customer support, not through dealers, as the England Stove and Century Hearth products or andled or all support should be funneled through the dealer. There just is not a workable hybrid model to work with. And either way make it clear to the customer, before the sale, how it is gonna be. Leave it to the customer to decide which support model they want to deal with. And then stick with it.


BrotherBart
frmr SSG who pushed U.S. Army Rangers out of Chinook helicopters. On the ground and otherwise. Whether they want out or not.

 

[HarryBack]

I agree with BB above. The manufacturer has to make the concious decision as to whether it directly will support the end-user of whether it will rely on its dealers to do so. Neither is right or wrong. England Stove Works has made the decision to go with the big boxes and do their own tech support, while companies like Harman require their dealers field the calls. As a dealer myself who sells Harman, I like it this way. England's business model works well for them. Who is right? I dunno. I do have to say though that dealers should really only support those companies who support them. If a manufacturer decides they want to sell parts direct, I dont think thats supporting the dealer...its competing WITH them. I sell Harman parts, and, God help me, I actually turn a profit doing so. My technician only installs Harman parts. He has cleaned other units, Breckwell, Whitfield, Englander, again, for a profit. If he finds broken parts tho, the onus is upon the owner of the unit to deal with the dealer or manufacturer of their stove for parts and/or service.
England Stove works deals their units through the big boxes, fully knowing and realizing that the associates at the Big Boxes arent gonna service the units, or maybe cant even field the technical questions some folks come up with. So, in response to this, theyve setup a network of techs to help the folks with issues and questions. Good for them.

Most complaints with the units we deal with is poor maintenance. Folks dont clean well, things clog. Poor maintenance = not covered under warrantee = me charging for the service call. Today, I had a gal call with a month old stove, making noises. Said it started doing it Christmas day. We left, took us 38 minutes to get there, and 6 minutes to diagnose the issue. The distribution fan sucked in wrapping paper from a present, was all bound up. Cost to her? $100.00......Why? abuse of the unit. Certainly wasnt Harman's fault...wasnt my fault....yup...hard as it is to beleive, it was the OWNERS fault.

 

[webbie]

800 numbers are not what matters in a day and age when phonecalls are often free or cheap.

What matters is trained staff OR dealers. I say OR, because it should not matter to a customer whether or not the manufacturer can respond....as long as the dealer does. It would be virtually impossible for larger stove manufacturers to have highly trained experts to answer questions from customers. Instead, they usually have experts to handle questions from dealers....and they also have training programs for dealers.

If your dealer is a PITA, well - my advice would have been to find a better one before you bought. Some of these stove companies have almost a million stoves out there in the field - can you imagine if even a small % of these people called when the first cold snap hit?

Companies like Woodstock and Englander work on a different business model. Englander agrees as part of their sales pitch to the box stores that they will take care of problems. Woodstock has staff on full time to talk to customers, but they are selling relatively low numbers of stoves which are quite reliable, so they are able to handle it.

As they say in business, there is a ass for every seat! I would buy a pellet stove from englander because I don't mind having a screwdriver in one hand...in fact, I would prefer it to waiting on a dealer and paying travel costs. But that's me.....

 

[seaken]

There is no doubt that I know more about my stoves then most of the tech guys at my manufacturers. However, there are exceptions. Fact is, most manufacturers cannot put a tech on the line that knows everything. Even if they have a couple of guys who really know their stuff, those guys are busy. They can't take all the calls.

Many times, consumers/users are over reacting and are disappointed that they don't get perfect service and immediate attention. In most cases it is not the stove's fault. (My data supports this - I've been doing this for nearly twenty years and most problems are caused by the operator). In those cases where it is a fault of the stove the customer should get a reasonable response. Most consumers assume it is the fault of the stove or the dealer and do not suspect their own errors. I see no soluton to this. People will continue this way for eternity.

Now, should a manufacturer have a customer service line? I think so. A customer should be able to talk directly to the maker. It should be part of the manufacturer's quality and value. It will help identify deadbeat dealers and give the consumer a better experience - if the manufacturer really tries to help. Unfortunately, many manufacturers do not have trained customer service people and they end up giving the impression that they don't care. Whats happening is that the tech guy can't put up with the attitudes of the consumers and does not know how to diffuse their anger and dissapointment. The tech just gets tired of babysitting. That's what the dealer is for. But then, of course, the dealer is also not inclined to put up with the demands of the average consumer and the cycle repeats itself.

Now, before you flame me about this negative light flashed on the consumer you need to remember that the majority of consumers on this board are not an average consumer. Most are of the DIY ilk. Most manufacturers will have a better success rate with a DIY customer than they will ever have with an average consumer. Dealers, on the other hand, are not used to dealing with the DIYer and assume the consumer is average, and ignorant.

It would be nice if there was a clean solution. If an 800 number was such a solution that would be fantastic. But the reality is that the relationship between consumer and manufacturer is poor. There has to be a lot of give and take for any relationship to work and it is hard work. In business, this takes money. If I am not a good customer service guy I need to hire someone else who is. To have a staff that really cares and is responsive is expensive. I try to pass that cost on to the consumer. Do you think this will improve the consumer relationship? Is the answer going to come only from the manufacturers and dealers?

 

[Greg Ray]

Sorry if I started something Thats not what I wanted to happen, I was just trying to explain, buy a good stove with good tech and dealer support! When I bought my Waterford from FPI I thought I would have it, did not know they were getting rid of the Waterford line and not carrying parts for them. Thats where my dealer got screwed not be able to help his customers with parts to all the stoves he installed. But I would say its my fault for buying a stove from oversea's. I should have bought one that has been around for years. Thats why my dealer quit stocking FPI products, FPI's 1-800 did not help trying to get parts for the Waterford, and when my dealer order parts it took 6 months. But again I say its my fault for buying a stove from Ireland, sorry to upset anyone I just wanted to let people know to check out the stoves and tech support and how long a stove has been on the market before buying and if parts are easy to get. Greg

 

[babalu87]

NO NO NO NO NO

Imagine what it would add to the cost of a stove for a company like VC to have people answering stupid questions that could have been avoided had someone READ THE MANUAL!

With the Internet and all of the good information that can be found (like here) why would a stove manufacturer need a call center because Sam cant get hsi stove to draft through a pellet stove pipe with green wood and the intake air closed?

 

[GVA]

NO NO NO NO NO

Imagine what it would add to the cost of a stove for a company like VC to have people answering stupid questions that could have been avoided had someone READ THE MANUAL!

With the Internet and all of the good information that can be found (like here) why would a stove manufacturer need a call center because Sam cant get hsi stove to draft through a pellet stove pipe with green wood and the intake air closed?

Oh alright I have to chime in here.... Many excellent points in the past page and a half.

Instead of the 800 # how about a section on thier website with a FAQ section...... Maybe a somewhat more detailed trouble shooting section..... or even just a contact us section.
If they had this than most people wouldn't feel so snubbed by the manufacturer.
I had a problem with Ford not to long ago and I sent them a E-mail they responded by saying "thanks for contacting ford" or something like that, did they answer any questions..........NO but I felt a little better by venting about my problems.
Just imagine that guy at Harman or VC or Quadrafire or whitfield
or pacif%^ en$%g$ ;-P (sorry)
that has to answer hundreds of calls only to have the people calling get pi$$ed off even more cause they are on hold for an hour.
IMO
1-800 NO......... better internet pages YES...

 

[Gooserider]

Years back, my father used to sell boats as a manufacturers rep. Some of his dealers wanted to sell parts, some of them didn't want to be bothered. I don't see that stoves are all that different.

My father's objective was to keep as many boats in service as possible, on the theory that a working boat was more likely to get customers via reputation and word of mouth.

In order to do this, he got a huge stock of pretty much every part the boats needed into his basement and hired a part time shipping guy out of the local high school. He didn't put in a 1-800-#, because those were expensive back then (pre-AT&T breakup days) but today he probably would have, along with a website, etc. If a dealer called, he shipped parts at dealer cost. If a retail customer called, he sold parts at mfgr sugg. list, (plus freight in each case) He shipped daily via UPS, back when UPS had really good service. His policy was that if something broke and he got a call by 2:00pm on Tues, possibly Wed. you would get the part by Friday so as to be back in the water for the next weekend...

He attempted to give tech support to anyone that called, but dealers had priority.

What he found was that some dealers would bend over backwards for their customers, and that those dealers had most of their customers getting parts through the dealer. Some dealers were less interested in minor parts sales, and would give their customers my father's number to get away from the parts hassle....

The key bottom line though was that the customers were happy (or at least as happy as could be expected) because they could get parts quickly. The dealers were happy about not having to stock more than a few 'standard replacement' type parts.

To me the bottom line is that the dealer is an unknown quantity in the mix - some dealers are excellent - hopefully that includes all the posting dealers here, but I can't say as I haven't done business w/ any of them. It is also clear that many other dealers are not as good, just read these forums... As a stove owner, I care MOST about getting parts and support, but not all that much about where they come from. Even if one has an excellent dealertoday, there is no guarantee that will continue to be the case, shops go out of business or change hands much more often than mfgr's do.

I don't think it's a big problem that a mfgr wants the primary support mechanism to be the dealers. I DO think it's a problem if the mfgr says that all support MUST go through the dealer and refuses to deal with retail customers.

I know that my preference on many things is to go to the local dealer if I can, but I want to have that direct to the mfgr access as well in case the dealer can't handle my problem. I don't mind if the dealer has a seperate (presumably higher priority) queue in the voice mail system. It's OK for the phone number to not be an 800 #, and I might even tolerate a "support fee" structure, especially if (as some computer companies do) the charge can be waived if you have a problem that isn't "in the book" I do insist on that mfgr support option though.

Gooserider

 

[stoveguy2esw]

im going to tell you a true store, i will not name names as i do not know who this dealer was, to my knowledge they are not a posting dealer in here and im certain that they wouldnt be( they carry a different brand pellet stove other than ours is all i will say ) this actually happened today , i took the call myself and got so *&^%*^ mad i had to step outta the office and vent.
a fellow called in about a 25-pdvc unit we built and he has had in a rental property for several years. the room air blower had apparantly started squeeking and the tenant called him to se if he would have it fixed. he called a local stove shop(mentioned above) they came out and looked at the unit , promptly told the tenant that the unit was "obsolete" and dangerous to operate!, then promptly tried to sell them one of their units. when the tenant contacted the owner back and told him , he called me to find out about it, there is nothing wrong with the unit other than the room air blower squeeking, and the unit is still in production today , actually our most popular model. as we talked it turns out that the service guy said they could replace the blower, would cost $400.00 for the part and it would be $600.00 to install! or they could spend a couple hundred more and buy a stove from them i almost fell outta my chair! i told the guy to inform the service guy that he could piss up a rope, and that he could get the new blower from us at far less than half what he was quoted, have it shipped right to his door, and he could then call and we would walk him or a repair guy through the process of installing it and testing it out. its 4 screws and 2 clip on wires.biggest thing that ticked me off was the way they bashed my producct like that just to get a sale. i was HOT!! i have not nor will i bash a competitors product in that way, i dont do it in here, or at work. had we not had our call center its possible that this customer may have been coorced into buying that unit, and dumping a perfectly good unit that needed a simple component change and probably trashed my product line ( im rather proud of our stoves) to everybody he could get to listen. the post goose wrote hits the nail right on the head, there are good dealers , and there are bad, and apparantly there are unscrupulous ones as well who will trash anybody else just to turn a sale. gawd , im still mad as hello over this. i didnt find out who the dealer was , but i know what they were trying to sell, with respect for that manufacturer (who obviously did not know of this) i am not disclosing that brand , they make a good product and do not deserve to get slammed in here over what those rapists tried to do to sell the product. so in closing i believe access to the manufacturer does have its advantages