Slow staring 17-VL--firebox air? draft? chimney height?

[Darl Bundren]

*Slow starting

I have started burning in a recently installed Englander 17-VL. Once ignited, I am largely pleased with it. However, getting to the full burn stage is a challenge, and what works great on my Woodstock Keystone downstairs is pretty much a hassle on the VL.

I use Super Cedars (two quarters in the KS, two halves in the VL), put largish splits on the bottom, use oak splits, larger oak kindling, and thinner pine kindling around the Super Cedars on top of the large splits. In the Keystone, I ignite the Super Cedar chunks, leave the air control at 4, and I'm set. I then turn the air control down to 2 or so, and the load burns until the temp is sufficient to add more splits and engage the cat. My firewood has seasoned for a couple of years at the least, and none of the splits are crazy big.

In the VL, I follow the same process, but even if I leave the door open to get everything ignited, when I close and latch the door, much of the fire goes out and what's left is dark yellow/blue flames that are tentative at best. Copious smoke, too. And after it burns out, it leaves much larger chunks of charcoal (?).

Is the primary air source on the VL smaller than on the VL? Even wide open it seems stingy.

Is chimney height an issue? The Keystone pipe is twenty or so feet and mostly through two floors of indoor space, the VL is 14+ feet on a chilly sunporch--half of the chimney is outside of the house.

I realize the installs and stoves are quite different, but what might I do to make the process of starting fires in the VL a little more successful?

 

[Woody Stover]

The Keystone pipe is twenty or so feet and mostly through two floors of indoor space, the VL is 14+ feet on a chilly sunporch--half of the chimney is outside of the house.

That's probably the difference. Besides the height, and the fact that the Ks stack is inside, I'm guessing the Ks stack might exit above the roof and the VL stack may be well short of the roof ridge, and maybe even on the other side of the roof ridge from the prevailing wind. Hopefully, the sun porch is on the back of the house and you can add a 3' section of chimney to the top without it looking too goofy from the street. You could try a 3' section of cheap vent pipe before committing to a more expensive section of actual chimney, just to see if it will help.

 

[Darl Bundren]

The chimney extends far above the roof ridge, probably more than the Keystone chimney. I suspect that chimney length is part of it. I also realized this morning starting up my Keystone that it features the cat bypass which I'd imagine greatly increases the volumne of air that moves through the firebox. Maybe having the bypass open is like having the door open or cracked when starting up the VL. Does anybody know if the primary air controls on these two stoves allow a comparable amount of air in when wide open?

 

[begreen]

The 17VL has multiple air intakes for primary and secondary air, the Keystone only one. Add 3 ft to the chimney and I think performance will notably improve. Stronger draft is needed to pull air through the secondary manifold and out the secondary ports.

 

[Darl Bundren]

Thanks, begreen. However, I've learned something upon further research. I rummaged around the baffles in the top of the stove, and the top one had shifted off of its support pins so it was resting on top of the top vermiculite baffle. In the image schematic, #14 was resting at a slant on #7 and effectively killing the airflow from the intakes you've mentioned. As soon as I'm done here, I am going to realign them so that all is as designed. In the second image (taken from 48rob's review thread https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/report-on-my-new-50-tvl17-stove-lots-of-pictures.57350/) it looks like the upper refractory baffle is pushed to the front of the stove, so that's my plan.



If things are still a little sluggish, I may add a couple of feet to the chimney anyway, though in their prompt response to my query the England's folks indicated that with 14'6" or so the chimney would probably be okay.

Once I've tested this proper configuration, I'll post back.

And, thanks as always to the folks in the forum for helping me.

 

[begreen]

Good sleuthing. That could be the culprit. You may still find additional chimney is required for mild weather burning, but if the stove is just for cold weather supplementation then it may be ok. With dry wood you should be seeing robust secondary combustion once the air is closed down.

 

[Darl Bundren]

As of now, the symptoms are largely the same with the top baffles in place. I'd think that with a robust kindling/super cedar fire burning, it'd be enough to create a suitable draft and ignite fairly small splits easily, but that's not the case. On to the chimney!

 

[Woody Stover]

As of now, the symptoms are largely the same with the top baffles in place....On to the chimney!

Yeah, I'd think any difference you are seeing in draft would be a function of the chimney, not the stove; With the air wide open I'd expect a roaring fire in either stove, with a strong-drafting chimney.

The 17VL has multiple air intakes for primary and secondary air, the Keystone only one.

Pretty much, but the Keystone does have a hole drilled in the ash pan housing that feeds some air to the bottom of the fire through the grate.

 

[begreen]

If you want to do a test first, go to the local hardware or home depot store and get a 4' length of cheap 6" round warm air duct. On a calm day, remove the chimney cap and push in the duct pipe, crimp down into the chimney. Then see how the stove works with the additional temporary pipe.