Smoke detector near stove - false alarms

[dh1989]

Last fall I replaced all of my smoke detectors, as they were reaching 10 years old. I have smoke only detectors in the bedrooms, and the hallways have combination smoke and CO detectors, all interconnected. I have one such combination detector located just over 1' away from my double wall stove pipe for the wood stove. That detector has never had any issues with the stove running during the winter over the past 10 years. After replacing all the detectors, I started getting occasional false fire alarms from that specific detector at the wood stove. Nothing was burning at the time of the false alarms. I cleaned it out with compressed air, and then went on a road trip a few weeks later. While away, I got a call from the fire department that they had climbed in through a window and disconnected that detector after it went off all day according to a neighbor. I have an air quality sensor in the house, and there was never any sign of smoke. Upon returning home I threw that detector out, and replaced it with the same model just the other day. At 4am last night all the detectors went off. I ran over to that specific one, pulled it down and disconnected the AC power, and they all immediately stopped sounding. I didn't even have to press the hush button or remove the batteries to stop it, just disconnect the AC on the wood stove detector.

The old detectors were Kidde/Firex KN-COPE-IC, and the replacement one was the Kidde 30CUAR-V. I'm wondering if dust is drafting down from the attic via the stove pipe/ceiling box and setting it off. What is odd to me is that I have the same model on an unfinished ceiling in the basement boiler room, and even with cobwebs around it there has never been a false alarm from that unit. I'm attaching pictures of the wiring and box for the problem unit, and the boiler room unit for comparison. Has anyone else ever dealt with this before?

 

[begreen]

It might be a good idea to leave that one out. I wouldn't have a smoke detector right over the stove. It is too likely to get false alarms when reloading in mild weather and a little smoke spills.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Last fall I replaced all of my smoke detectors, as they were reaching 10 years old. I have smoke only detectors in the bedrooms, and the hallways have combination smoke and CO detectors, all interconnected. I have one such combination detector located just over 1' away from my double wall stove pipe for the wood stove. That detector has never had any issues with the stove running during the winter over the past 10 years. After replacing all the detectors, I started getting occasional false fire alarms from that specific detector at the wood stove. Nothing was burning at the time of the false alarms. I cleaned it out with compressed air, and then went on a road trip a few weeks later. While away, I got a call from the fire department that they had climbed in through a window and disconnected that detector after it went off all day according to a neighbor. I have an air quality sensor in the house, and there was never any sign of smoke. Upon returning home I threw that detector out, and replaced it with the same model just the other day. At 4am last night all the detectors went off. I ran over to that specific one, pulled it down and disconnected the AC power, and they all immediately stopped sounding. I didn't even have to press the hush button or remove the batteries to stop it, just disconnect the AC on the wood stove detector.

The old detectors were Kidde/Firex KN-COPE-IC, and the replacement one was the Kidde 30CUAR-V. I'm wondering if dust is drafting down from the attic via the stove pipe/ceiling box and setting it off. What is odd to me is that I have the same model on an unfinished ceiling in the basement boiler room, and even with cobwebs around it there has never been a false alarm from that unit. I'm attaching pictures of the wiring and box for the problem unit, and the boiler room unit for comparison. Has anyone else ever dealt with this before?

Maybe there is some sort of air circulation in that area like you say. I gather there have been no fires lately, so it must be related to contaminated air. You might try a shield around it as an experiment. Then look at putting a cover on the hole, and maybe buy a 10 y battery one and experiment with that around the area. I'm glad they didn't bust your door frame out.
edit - check your box gaps and holes. Maybe you cam seal up some draft from the attic or joist area above

 

[kborndale]

Why would you put a smoke detector within 1 foot of your stove? I doubt the old one worked if it never went off during reloads.

 

[4x4prepper]

I have noticed the warnings inside newer models (combo CO2 and smoke) state they respond to radiant heat. Maybe the chimney gets hot enough from the sun to set off the sensor because it detects something hot vs. the background.

You live in RI and have 4 wire romex, does this smoke detector require two hot 120v leads? Usually red and black are 120v, white neutral, and the bare metal/green is ground.

Is all this attached to a 3 or 4 way switch (using the black wire) ?

I have had some funky stuff happen because a $1 switch went defective. In that case, just replace all the switches ($4) in the gang box and make sure the wires from the back are tight. I prefer side hooks and wrapping the outlet in electrical tape.

 

[Whitenuckler]

I have noticed the warnings inside newer models (combo CO2 and smoke) state they respond to radiant heat. Maybe the chimney gets hot enough from the sun to set off the sensor because it detects something hot vs. the background.

You live in RI and have 4 wire romex, does this smoke detector require two hot 120v leads? Usually red and black are 120v, white neutral, and the bare metal/green is ground.

Is all this attached to a 3 or 4 way switch (using the black wire) ?

I have had some funky stuff happen because a $1 switch went defective. In that case, just replace all the switches ($4) in the gang box and make sure the wires from the back are tight. I prefer side hooks and wrapping the outlet in electrical tape.

Are the two hots from different breakers? I have never wired my own 120V detectors. That is interesting that they might respond to radiant heat. Something to check for when buying one.
Why would you connect them to a switch? Would you not just hardwire them to the panel all on one or two breakers?
I agree with you. Anytime I can I use my needlenose I loop the wire and place it under the screw. I have used those compression
holes when I ran out of space.

 

[4x4prepper]

> Are the two hots from different breakers?

IF it was wired for 240v, no, same breaker, different phase leg. Since this is the USA/RI, I have to assume the wiring is for a 3-4 way light setup.

> Why would you connect them to a switch?

I have to assume the box for a ceiling lamp (or fan) that existed was used for the smoke detector and that is why it was placed so close to the chimney.

> I have the same model on an unfinished ceiling in the basement boiler room, and even with cobwebs around it there
> has never been a false alarm from that unit.

That is why I think there might be a defective on/off/paddle switch in the mix. Especially if you throw in a dimmer somewhere.

 

[EbS-P]

I don’t even have a detector in my kitchen. Every bedroom and the hallway 20’ from the stove. It will go off if I do something dumb with the wood stove or say put a 5# sack of whole wheel flour on the glass top range then bump the burner and leave for 20 minutes.

 

[Pinesmoke]

Do a deep dive into those detectors. My wired kidde are making me crazy and I was looking to replace them all. The new models of smoke/CO and wired are showing a LOT false triggers in the reviews. Enough that I have started looking into other manufacturers.

With that said the placement right over the stove certainly isn't helping out.

 

[Eman85]

That's a combo smoke and CO detector isn't it? When I researched detectors the combo detectors didn't get good ratings, so I stayed with separate detectors.

 

[4x4prepper]

I have a Kidde CO2 alarm P3010CU combo alarm.

How I ended up with it is it used to "false" alarm at a land lord's tenant on the 1st floor of a triple decker. They heated with a gas furnace and had gas clothes driers. I did some tests including testing for leaking natural gas. I told them only a state licensed plumber was allowed to work on the nightmare copper to iron (steel) lines connections (actually a GA state law).

Their solution, alarm went off, tenant put it outside in the rain. Asked land lord what she wanted to do, she said throw it out and just put in plain smoke detectors in the same spot.

So, I took it home and replaced one (forget the brand had digital readouts) that was over 10 years old. Pretty much no false alarms, it will go off if my "cook" daughter decides to fry something. I just measured the distance, it sits 92 inches from the wood stove on a diagonal and 1 foot from the ceiling on a stairway wall.

I have only had the C02 go off once or twice, unlike the tenant that had it go off once a week at least. It has gone off a few times because I either let some into the room from the stove or more times then not, someone frying something in the kitchen 21+ feet away.

YET, 138 people really hate this alarm and 1 stared it:

Combination Smoke & Carbon Monoxide Alarm with Sealed Lithium Battery Power P3010CU | Kidde

P3010CU is a 10-year, sealed battery, smoke and carbon monoxide alarm with a voice warning system that features photoelectric and electrochemical sensing technology with Smart Hush feature.

www.kidde.com

Maybe I just happened to get a good one ?