Smoke Dragons

[RedRanger]

Regarding my 1985 PE insert (now with a new baffle)thanks again guys. Up until I retired 3 years ago, this fireplace had burned less than 10 cords of wood total. Only used it at Xmas, and when the power was out. So it is a Low Milage Vehicle so-to speak. Now that my income is lessened somewhat, the economics and comfort of wood heat are fully utilized here (approx 4 cords per season).

Now I live on acreage as do my neighbors. Everyone here burns the blow down branches that are too small for the fireplaces , and I mean just burn them outside all year round "except during seasonal bans and extremely dry conditions". If I lived in a sub-division then for sure I would consider my fireplace to be a Smoke Dragon, but I don`t consider that it is where I live. Smoke is smoke, we have logging slash burns,constructions burns.etc. I am not trying to be cheap here, but I just can`t justify tossing a perfectly good heating unit, specially when it is bothering no one. So this fireplace is a smoke dragon in the city but not in the country? Agree or disagree?

 

[n6crv]

Sonnyinbc you have one vote for Agree, Thats another good reason to live in the Country.

 

[MrGriz]

Disagree.

Regardless of the location, they are still inefficient and pollute more than a modern EPA stove. Just because it's not bothering any of your neighbors doesn't mean it's burning cleaner or using less wood.

 

[myzamboni]

If a smoke dragon burns in the forest and there is nobody there to complain about it, is it a problem?

 

[MrGriz]

If a smoke dragon burns in the forest and there is nobody there to complain about it, is it a problem?

Aparently only if it is an "urban forest" ;-P

 

[JimWalshin845]

If a smoke dragon burns in the forest and there is nobody there to complain about it, is it a problem?

And cattle put out a huge amount of methane gas... huge polluter.... but are the kids going to give up their milk and what about that 3" steak at the dinner table?

Yes, we do pollute but let's see, put out $2,600 for a new stove or keep $2,600 for a rainy day?

 

[TMonter]

Save $650 and buy a Englander 30-NCL at the end of the season from Home Depot. Problem solved.

Or just save a few bucks and keep an eye on Craigslist.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Save $650 and buy a Englander 30-NCL at the end of the season from Home Depot. Problem solved.

Or just save a few bucks and keep an eye on Craigslist.

we love you guys

 

[JimWalshin845]

Save $650 and buy a Englander 30-NCL at the end of the season from Home Depot. Problem solved.

Or just save a few bucks and keep an eye on Craigslist.

I don't think if I was upgrading I would consider a non-cat stove at the moment. I see the Englander 30-NCL is EPA'd and puts out BTU's too.

But why would I look on CraigsList if all Englander 30-NCL owners love their stove?

And I hate to stir the pot but this thread just popped up at the top of the forum list:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/11297/

 

[restorer]

You know something, who was the last one of us that actually caught a dragon?????? OK..... you smart aleks..... I am in total agreement, we call them SD's. but there are hundreds of members here who don't have the latest, state of the art and computer controlled wood/bio burners. What we should offer to those out here is a way to keep your dragon in the closet. That is a better way to burn, regardless of the age and technology of your stove. SD's are owned and used by some of the most vocal and respected members of this site. I would think that those who burn responsibly should not think they need to hide in the closet, but step out and be heard. Economics play a big part in many of our burning patterns, you should not feel you need to empty the bank to get a new one, use the old one better.

I'm a PH, cause I can't burn wood and meet the local codes. Works for me, but I burn a stove that uses an analog board, snap switches and off the shelf parts. In four years I have never had a complaint except one, when the dump of pellets raised enough smoke to cause my neighbor to knock on the door and check that I wasn't trying to burn the place down or smoke bacon. Of course he was loading his truck four feet from the flue cap.

Well, on this day, welcome dragon burners..... Learn Yee how to burn, and burn well. Don't dump your stoves, don't give up you life, but join the table of responsible burners. Learn from these the new ones and some of us old ones and be more responsible about how you treat your little and the larger world.

 

[BrotherBart]

I love my stove but if I was 20 minutes from the PE factory I think I would be over there looking at "rejects" with a ding in the porcelain.

One of the reasons I bought the Englander was their rep and proximity to me. Same thing with you and PE. You can't beat their rep and they are a hell of a lot closer to you than ESW is to me.

 

[oregonrider]

uncle, I have a smoke dragon, I manage to have less smoke out of my stack than all the stacks I see in my commute up the river, which is 30 miles. Even the houses with modern 6" SS stacks are smoking like crazy!Roben.

 

[RedRanger]

And how did Brother Bart know that I live exactly 20 minutes from the PE factory?? You working for the FBI? Or what? :coolhmm: Just kidding. Actually when I was there on Thursday, they did manage to dig up the specs for a new baffle for me. However, they will not sell to the public-only dealers. And the dealer is only one block down the road. I am reluctant to mention this, but one option that I do have is to buy from the Chimney Sweep. He gets 15% off and would pass that on to me. But then, that means I get no warranty. hmmmm. I would also get a break on the install price as well.

 

[emory]

Good thing those huge wild fires earlier this year were in California since they have such stringent laws on emissions. If those had happened here in NH it would have surely doomed us all.

I have a "dragon" and I also see much less smoke out of my chimney then 90% of the houses around. Not sure what the heck people are doing, but there are few things that define winter in New England for me than the smell of smoke in the air on a cold night.

I think the more important thing to win people over is the reduction in wood consumption for the same heat output.

 

[restorer]

uncle, I have a smoke dragon, I manage to have less smoke out of my stack than all the stacks I see in my commute up the river, which is 30 miles. Even the houses with modern 6" SS stacks are smoking like crazy!Roben.

You are in a really tough area. There is no smoke that can't be seen. So, you seem to want to keep the air clear. When I lived on the Kitsap penn. I did the same thing. Should we ask for a special forum for the SD's???? That would be way cool, where we could all try to do better.

More seriously, I don't think the East Coasters realize how much the wood industry impacts the day to day lives of the Northwest. I used to buy kero lamps throughout the Mid-West and sell them to folks on the West Sound for day to day lighting. I used to buy wood from scrappers at the clear cuts, When I stayed in Kerby, I sold stoves to farmers and ranchers and hippies. I really wish someone would develop the technology for a good chip/saw dust burner...... You all need that to keep ahead.

 

[RedRanger]

Should mention that if I do decide to buy something like the Pacific (which I really like). It wouldn`t be for a couple of years anyway. Blew the budget on a big screen TV last month. Us Canucks love our hockey in HD you know.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Save $650 and buy a Englander 30-NCL at the end of the season from Home Depot. Problem solved.

Or just save a few bucks and keep an eye on Craigslist.

I don't think if I was upgrading I would consider a non-cat stove at the moment. I see the Englander 30-NCL is EPA'd and puts out BTU's too.

But why would I look on CraigsList if all Englander 30-NCL owners love their stove?

And I hate to stir the pot but this thread just popped up at the top of the forum list:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/11297/

im working on it , give me a sec would ya!
by the way , dig a little deeper and see how may more adverse posts you can find, hint, get a fresh drink, and a bowl of popcorn , you will be a while looking for one

 

[jpl1nh]

I think this site is devoted to safe and responsible burning. I know there are many that are not using the latest technology. The most important component of any wood heating system is the operator. A knowledgable wood burner with an old SD can probably do at least as well as an uninformed user of a modern EPA stove. I bought a 4 year old Woodstock Keystone, ( a cat stove) that obviously never really had been burned utilizing the cat! There was just a post to this forum a few days ago by someone who had used a cat stove for 10 years and never knew it was a cat stove or how to use the combustor. When its time to retire the smoke dragon, the new EPA stoves are definately a step up in efficiency and clean burning POTENTIAL. Until such a time as it works for each individual, my hats off to all of you smoke dragon users who just plain use them well.

 

[restorer]

I think this site is devoted to safe and responsible burning. I know there are many that are not using the latest technology. The most important component of any wood heating system is the operator. A knowledgable wood burner with an old SD can probably do at least as well as an uninformed user of a modern EPA stove. I bought a 4 year old Woodstock Keystone, ( a cat stove) that obviously never really had been burned utilizing the cat! There was just a post to this forum a few days ago by someone who had used a cat stove for 10 years and never knew it was a cat stove or how to use the combustor. When its time to retire the smoke dragon, the new EPA stoves are definately a step up in efficiency and clean burning POTENTIAL. Until such a time as it works for each individual, my hats off to all of you smoke dragon users who just plain use them well.

Gee thanks Web my thoughts got out, inspite of my "mean spirited" attitude.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

you know , in spite of building modern appiances, i do feel that the term , although ive used it too, smoke dragon , is a bit harsh, its not meant as i know in here as a derogatory term in most cases, heck we built a ton of em before EPA put the kybosh on them. responsable woodburning is what it is, the biggest difference between "smoke dragons" and epa units is the generally the operation, a "dragon" can be burned fairly clean, if its done properly , thats an art form, an epa unit takes out the guesswork of burning clean to a greater extent, yes they can be burned dirty too, but its easier to actually burn them clean than it is with non-epa units. thats one advantage to a modern unit.

in the long run though , they are still carbon neutral because of the fuel they are fed, old and new, so the "smoke" that comes from the dragon, IMHO isnt near as destructive as that of a vehicle that issues as much smoke out the tail pipe because its burning oil, but its too inconvienient to borrow a term , for most folks to look at it that way.

 

[restorer]

Sorry what I said is too nasty for Web to post, Ya'all have a nice forum. I will be gone.

 

[TMonter]

But why would I look on CraigsList if all Englander 30-NCL owners love their stove?

I wasn't referring to picking up just an englander stove but any EPA cert stove for a cheap price. Most of the time owners clearing stove on Craigslist isn't because they didn't like the stove. They usually upgraded or changed stove type.

That being said, The very fact that Mike is working the problem on the pellet stove is a testament to Englanders dedication to supporting their product. I don't see any other stove manufacturer on this board doing the same thing. For that alone they get props.

 

[JimWalshin845]

But why would I look on CraigsList if all Englander 30-NCL owners love their stove?

I wasn't referring to picking up just an englander stove but any EPA cert stove for a cheap price. Most of the time owners clearing stove on Craigslist isn't because they didn't like the stove. They usually upgraded or changed stove type.

That being said, The very fact that Mike is working the problem on the pellet stove is a testament to Englanders dedication to supporting their product. I don't see any other stove manufacturer on this board doing the same thing. For that alone they get props.

Thank you for the clarrification, and I did read your post as to look for a Englander on CraigsList... which really had me perplexed :-S . I would never purchase a used stove on CL, I would look at the options and purchase new from a local dealer.

I do agree with you 110% that a manufacturer who takes time to inform and support the members of this forum has to be admired. It shows he has pride in his product, supports his dealers and most of all is visible to the end user. Koodoos to Mike!

The written word often leaves a lot to be desired,
Jim

 

[TMonter]

I would never purchase a used stove on CL, I would look at the options and purchase new from a local dealer.

Nothing wrong with a used stove in good condition. One of my neighbors bought a used Quadrafire 3100 this year off Craiglist, bought new firebrick for it and has been burning for two months now.

The trick with Craigslist is to be patient and picky on what you buy.