Smoke leaks, Tech Support, and fixes!

[mtnbiker727]

My stove was "professionally" installed by the dealer in January 2019 with a 6 inch pipe coming straight out of the back of it. Two screws held it to the exhaust pipe of the stove. Needless to say I fought smoke constantly. The dealer got tired of me calling to complain about the smoke, and based on comments people made here, I started looking at buying an appliance adapter. After not getting enough information to make me feel satisfied, I decided to ask Duravent Customer Service for their input. They referred me to their Tech Support people.

Their Tech Support guy (Nick) said the pipe was installed improperly. He said you shouldn't put screws in the pipe* and that I needed an appliance adapter. He explained that the screws puncture the inner stainless layer, which is meant for pressurized flow, allowing the smoke to escape into the outer layer, which is not meant for pressurized smoke (therefore, it leaks everywhere). Without me asking, Nick warrantied the whole pipe, and sent me two different styles of appliance adapter. He didn't know I had a Harman stove, so after receiving everything and figuring out neither of those adapters would work, I ended up buying the Harman adapter on Ebay for $26. The adapter arrived in the mail today, so I'm putting it back together now. They also sent a different style of Tee, which seems to seal way better than the original I had.

*The 18 inch adjustable pipe comes with screws and predrilled screw holes, but I haven't figured out how to put screws in without puncturing the inner stainless layer of the pipe that's slid up inside of it.

In the photos you can see the mess of me trying to stop the smoke because of the two screws and not having an appliance adapter. The 12 inch pipe above the Tee also had punctures through both walls from the 18 inch adjustable pipe that was slid over it and screwed on. I also included a picture of the 3 different styles of appliance adapter (Harman is black). I'll post a photo of the new pipe once I get it installed and running and make sure it works!

[Sorry about the sideways photo, it's normal on my computer, but when uploaded it flips over.]

 

[MalcolmH]

You should be able to get very short screws for stove pipe that would only puncture the outer layer. I'd be making the already paid professionals do the work while you held there hand in this case, that black pipe isn't something you wanna hack together and its expensive. They would also learn to do it properly and maybe save someone else the troubles you've experienced, this isn't a small mistake in my opinion, pretty serious, and the installer should be sent for pressurized vent installation training. And pipe used to transfer gas or liquid is always measured by inner diameter.

 

[mtnbiker727]

You should be able to get very short screws for stove pipe that would only puncture the outer layer. I'd be making the already paid professionals do the work while you held there hand in this case, that black pipe isn't something you wanna hack together and its expensive. They would also learn to do it properly and maybe save someone else the troubles you've experienced, this isn't a small mistake in my opinion, pretty serious, and the installer should be sent for pressurized vent installation training. And pipe used to transfer gas or liquid is always measured by inner diameter.

I compared the screws they used with the ones Duravent sent me. The Duravent screws are shorter by about a quarter inch. Unfortunately Duravent sent galvanized pipe instead of black, because the person placing the order didn't look at my photos. I'm not going to complain about 6 feet of pipe that they probably shouldn't have given me for free (the stove is in my basement). I assembled everything last night with no problem, using HPV silicone inside the joints. Now I'm waiting for it to cure before I fire up the stove.

I don't want to talk to the stove guy at the dealer, but I am planning on emailing the owner to explain everything after I get it up and running again. I agree, they need to learn how to do it correctly.

 

[Dataman]

Paint it before you install. (stove paint)

 

[mtnbiker727]

I got everything together and have been running it for several days without even a hint of smoke. I put one bead of RTV inside each joint before connecting them together, and that's it! No tape, no slathering caulk all over the place to chase smoke up the pipe.... My wife isn't complaining about headaches anymore, and we are warm again! What a difference it makes when things are installed properly!

I found an old Harman P68 manual online that described in detail how to adjust the door latch (the manual that came with my stove doesn't even mention it), because the latch end of the door was weak during the dollar bill test.

I wish I had done all of this at the beginning of the heating season, but at least it's done and the mess is gone. I am finally happy with my stove again.

 

[mtnbiker727]

-------------,

I wanted to tell you about my experience the last year and couple months with the Harman P68 I purchased from --------------------. My stove was installed on January 4th, 2019. First of all, I want to say that the stove is awesome, and I have been very happy with the heat it provides. I would recommend a Harman P68 to anyone who wants a pellet stove.

BUT

My sales experience was not that great. I thought I wanted the P43, so I asked for that, and ------ told me it had to be ordered, but he had an Absolute 43, which has more electronics than I wanted to have, so I declined. I pointed to the P68 sitting in the showroom and asked about it and received a short answer. I kept pressing and finally got enough information and decided I would rather have the larger and more expensive P68 than the P43, because it has a much wider BTU range (both higher and lower than the P43). He also said that since it was a leftover, I could get $500 (I think?) off the purchase price. I understand low pressure sales, but I felt like I had to sell the stove to myself. I am very thankful to have the larger stove, and as I said am very happy with it.

I also feel like I was not given enough information to operate the stove and maintain it, and unfortunately the Harman manual is really lacking. I turned to the forums on Hearth.com, where I found a community of pellet stove owners and installers who provided a wealth of information about how to use and maintain the stove. I informed ---- of this resource, but I don’t know if he looked it up or not.

The main reason I am emailing you is because I have had a serious struggle with smoke in the house. I had your installers bring the stove and install the pipe, because I didn’t know anything about it, and figured they would do a better job than I could. After the past year and 2 months of struggling, I realized how wrong I was. After the stove was installed, I made several calls to ---- complaining of smoke, but I could tell with every subsequent call he got more annoyed. One of the questions I asked was about the outside air kit (OAK), because I thought smoke was caused by not having a good enough draft. Harman recommends an OAK for every install, and so do all the people on Hearth.com, yet I didn’t get one. ------ assured me that they aren’t necessary for most of the installs, because most houses aren’t tight enough for it to matter. If that’s true, why does everyone else recommend it? At one point he offered to come check things out, but by then I had been tired of the back-and-forth and declined his offer. During at least one call he made a comment that there will always be a little smoke, and that’s just the nature of the beast. I later found out that the lack of an OAK had nothing to do with my problem. I also found out that ------ was wrong about always having a little smoke.

My stove was incorrectly installed with a 6 inch length of 3 inch pipe coming straight out of the back with 2 screws in it. I found out later that these screws punctured both layers of pipe, allowing the smoke to escape the inner pressurized liner, into the outer layer, and leak everywhere (see photo 20200423_152059.jpg). As you can see from photo 20200107_183256.jpg, I used a lot of RTV silicone and aluminum tape to try to seal up the cracks that were leaking smoke. The installers used RTV silicone on the outside of the pipe connections, which did not provide a good seal, and since the screws punctured the liner, what they “sealed” wouldn’t have helped anyway.

This Spring, I was tired of the constant struggle to find and fix leaks, and my wife threatened to not let me use the stove anymore because it was giving her migraines. Not wanting to deal with ------ anymore, I again turned to Hearth.com for help and shared the photo of the goopy mess I created at the back of the stove. Some of the users said that I should have an appliance adapter. I started researching appliance adapters, but couldn’t find enough information online, so I emailed Duravent customer support and asked them what they thought of the situation. They forwarded me to Duravent Tech Support, who right away told me that the stove pipe was installed improperly, and that an appliance adapter would help. They said that in general, screws should not be used in the Pellet Vent Pro pipe for the reason I stated above. An appliance adapter, I learned, allows a tight fitting connection to the back of the stove, that can be screwed onto the stove without puncturing the inner pressurized liner. Without me asking, Duravent warrantied the pipe, and sent me a replacement for everything that was damaged during the installation. Duravent also provided a different style Tee, which appears to seal way better than the old one. Unfortunately the person ordering the pipe parts did not know I had black stove pipe, so they sent galvanized pipe. The stove is in my basement, and I am tired of this mess, so I used the gray pipe.

The two different styles of appliance adapters that Duravent sent would not fit, so I did some more research and found out there is a Duravent appliance adapter specifically designed for Harman pellet stoves. The part number is 3PVP-ADHB. I purchased the appliance adapter on Ebay for $26.99. Through my research, I also learned that the pipe should be installed with a bead of RTV Silicone inside the connection, so when twisted together the silicone makes an air-tight seal, then the excess goop can be wiped off so no silicone is visible on the outside of the pipe.

Your installers also used two 18 inch adjustable pipes to make everything fit, which require screws to keep them in place. I found out that the screws they used were longer than the screws Duravent supplied to me for the same piece of pipe. After disassembling the old pipe, I found out these long screws punctured the inner liner in not only the 6 inch length at the back of the stove, but also the 12 inch length above the Tee (see photo 20200423_151930.jpg). Up until that point I hadn’t realized my pipe was possibly leaking smoke above the Tee because of these errant screws.

On April 2, 2020 I put the new pipe together using the Harman appliance adapter and for the first time since buying the stove we have a smoke free house. We have used the stove every day since then, and have not had even a hint of smoke. And as you can see in photo 20200406_101830.jpg, the pipe looks a whole lot better when it’s not covered in goop and tape.

I do want to say that the installers, -------, and I can’t remember the other guy’s name, were very nice and polite, and I had no problem with them personally. They just need to be educated on the proper way to install Duravent Pellet Vent Pro pipe, and be sure to use an appliance adapter.

At this point, I am finally happy with my stove installation, so I am not asking for anything from you. I just wanted to let you know about my struggle, and hopefully this information will help future pellet stove buyers have a much more positive experience than I did.


Thank you,

--------------

 

[mtnbiker727]

-------------- Valued Customer

It is completely disappointing that you and your family had this experience. I apologize greatly for not having this brought to my attention when you first noticed the smoke. The appliance adapter is the first step in a proper installation. This opens multiple in house questions, as you may imagine.

Of course, I wish each customer to receive the greatest product for a good price and above and beyond service. I appreciate you coming to me with a finial resolve, however, I would have been able to clarify the problem and would have been pleased to pay you a visit.

Please kept my cell phone number ------------- to reach me directly as we go forward. You and your family are important to me.

Sincerely your,
-------------

 

[Dataman]

Looks like mine now. I never have had smoke in the house with my Harmon XXV. 2nd year using it last Winter. I do get some film buildup on Windows. I think that is outgassing of all the Pine we have in the house. Did you invest in Battery Backup? I have two 100ah Battery for 12 hours use. Aims 1250 Inverter. Used it for 6 hours once. Then I got another battery. Longest power outage has been 12 hours. To make up the difference I grabbed Generator Battery and finally shut it down. Mine is all cleaned for next Winter. I put Screen in the 8" pipe in the wall to keep stupid birds out and pull the cleanout outside. I upgraded from Blaze King King Wood Stove. Very happy not to have to open windows to cool off house. Don't miss Firewood Mess. Still doing some wood when trees get uprooted or blow down. 2 Cords at least to give away to Wife's Niece.