Smoke smell ,is this normal

[JohnJohn]

I have a Clydesdale insert that was install in November. I has been burning and working great since install. I have burned about 1.5 cords so far heating 2200 sf. Two nights ago around 3:30 am we had a strong creosote /smoke smell. The outside temp was around 3 degrees. And again the same happened last nigh temp around 6. Called the installer he said this is normal due to the pressure change. The wood is not as dry as I'd like 30%. 23 foot single wall ss liner and cap, exterior wall brick fireplace. Looked at smoke output tonight and it looks minimal grey but coming out slow even with air wide open, stove temp at 500.

Let me know what I should do. Not burn when it's cold out sounds odd.

Thanks,

John

 

[pen]

I'm wondering if with wood that isn't quite ready, that you were getting some smoke late in the burn and with the temp so cold, some of that smoke smell was coming in the house along with other cold air pushing in at every available crevice?

If know if I turn on the kitchen hood fan or the bath fan right as I have smoke on a fresh reload, those fans pull enough that I'll draw some smoke smell in the house. Very cold temps help air infiltrate more as well.

Was the source of the smell isolated in any part of the house or pretty much everywhere? You weren't doing anything with the stove at the time this happened correct?

 

[JohnJohn]

Everywhere , I do have 3 fans moving air so that kind of blows it around. Seems to be on the left side of the insert, from what my nose can tell. I was sleeping when it happened.

 

[pen]

Ah, so it's coming in from around the stove itself? Is there a block-off plate installed around the liner / flue damper area?

 

[JohnJohn]

No plate just insulation

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Quite possibly a clogged cap. That is the coldest part of the chimney, and the spark arrestor screen can clog up, even without much buildup in the pipe.

 

[JohnJohn]

Cap appears clear, it's not a fine mesh more of the larger diamonds.

 

[pen]

Have you pulled the surround and checked to make sure the insulation is still soundly in place and to also check the connection from the stove to the liner?

Was the chimney swept well before the insert and liner were installed?

 

[JohnJohn]

I did pull the surround. I not so happy. Looks like the installer used 6 in flex but the opening in my damper shelf is 5 in. They ovaled the pipe. It seems to be in okay but no silicone or sealant of any kind. The insulation looks ok. It worked great at 15 degrees and up .

 

[pen]

I did pull the surround. I not so happy. Looks like the installer used 6 in flex but the opening in my damper shelf is 5 in. They ovaled the pipe. It seems to be in okay but no silicone or sealant of any kind. The insulation looks ok. It worked great at 15 degrees and up .

I'm wondering if the colder temps and higher draft have you running the stove harder for the first time and heating up what creosote might be left in that old chimney and that's what you are smelling.

Or, with the colder temps, it's also possible that smoke coming from the chimney can infiltrate the house from other areas like an ash cleanout from the fireplace perhaps? Or some other area around the fireplace that isn't sealed well,,, or elsewhere in the house for that matter. Are you sure you can isolate the smell's origin as there?

As far as the ovalization, it happens on many installations. If you asked for the damper to be cut and they didn't, I'd be disappointed, but otherwise, ovalizing can be acceptable so long as you still have a good seal at the stove connector.

In all, silicone applied right to the liner probably wouldn't hold up anyway as even the high temp stuff can't handle what can happen there under operation.

pen

 

[JohnJohn]

Pen, thanks for your feedback . I'd like to put a plate in just to see and it can't hurt. Is there a way to seal around the pipe during reconnect? I assume this would help with the old chimney smell as we'll.

 

[weatherguy]

You can put some sealant there but I can tell you from experience it won't last long and really doesn't do anything. I don't think that's the origin of your odor. I would recommend a block off plate.

 

[begreen]

Was the chimney thoroughly cleaned before the insert was installed? Here is an article on damper sealing.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/

 

[JohnJohn]

No,didn't have it cleaned, installer said it didn't look bad. Will it burn off in time if that is the cause? Or do I need to pull everything and clean it?

 

[pen]

No,didn't have it cleaned, installer said it didn't look bad. Will it burn off in time if that is the cause? Or do I need to pull everything and clean it?

Tough to tell what the guy saw when he put the liner in. But the general rule of thumb is that sucker gets scrubbed down hard before the liner goes in. Can't say as though the smell is coming from that or not but it is suspect.

One thing you might be able to do next time the stove is shut down is to pull that insulation out around the liner and look up yourself. You might find a bunch of creosote that has fallen and is sitting on top of that insulation.

pen

 

[mstoelton]

Is the liner insulated? If not with a long exterior chimney combined with less than ideal wood and really cold temps you may get a draft reversal at the end of your burn where the exhaust from your insert wants to fall back down the chimney and come out through the air in-take of the insert.

I presume with 30% moisture in your wood you are not getting really hot fires. If this is the case try a few things:

1. start your fires with smaller kindling and get a small but hot fire going
2. make sure your fire is really going good before you add any big splits
3. keep your air control open enough to have flames visible as long as there is "wood" in the stove
4. only close the damper completely when you have only coals left
5. if you are having trouble keeping the stove temps up because your wood is not seasoned, carefully hot-load the stove (load your next splits on a nice hot bed of coals, and keep the stove burning at a high but still reasonable temperature)
6. If the above works you may need to reload the stove often.

 

[begreen]

I think this may be more of a case of a hot liner in a partially clean chimney. The extreme cold has pushed temps of the liner 24/7 and it is heating up old sote. When possible, pull the liner and thoroughly clean the chimney and smoke shelf.

 

[USMC80]

I think this may be more of a case of a hot liner in a partially clean chimney. The extreme cold has pushed temps of the liner 24/7 and it is heating up old sote. When possible, pull the liner and thoroughly clean the chimney and smoke shelf.

Agree. It should have been scrubbed by the installer before he put the liner in.