Smoked out again--Is it my pecan tree causing the problem?

[CountryGal]

Here's the story:

December 10th had the dealer send the guys out to clean the stove and chimney. It hadn't been cleaned since last burn season 2007 and last year's wood wasn't that seasoned. I bought a load of wood in March and it is burning good--had it here 9 months, my wood guy had it 6 months. Anyway, we were getting some smoke and it was time to have it cleaned.

A week later, getting smoked out again. They sent someout out and he replaced our ceramic-fiber blanket and put a metal plate in to hold it down. He said it was sucked up inside the stove pipe. When they cleaned it on 12/10 they didn't take out the blanket and I asked about that and he said he could clean with the shop vac from under and over it. They did take the stove pipe in the house off and cleaned the stove pipe opening with the pipe off, etc.

Two days later we're smoked out again! Can't get a fire started, even tried just starting small kindling with fatwood and when I shut the stove door it goes out. Open the door again and it pours out smoke and even puffing smoke at the ceiling box. Called the dealer again and they are closing for Christmas holidays and short on sweeps.

Today my daughter called the owner of the store on her own (LOL!) I get on the phone and now he's saying it might be my tree causing no draft.

Here's a couple of pictures. Please let me know what you think.

 

[fossil]

I think he doesn't feel like coming out to help you. Maybe he thinks you'll start working on taking down your tree (which has nothing to do with the draft problem) and stop bugging him for a while. Rick

 

[CountryGal]

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. I have another sweep coming out Tuesday. Different company altogether. He's a firefighter so he's on duty tomorow and Monday.

 

[stoveguy13]

trees can cause draft problems. but not the most likely cause have you changed anything in your house windows sidding range hood furnace?

 

[CountryGal]

Nothing--the only thing we did was have the hallway drywalled and there was a very small vent to the downstairs taken out and covered up as it went to a propane furnace that isn't hooked up. The vent was along the floor in the hallway and it was about 5.5" square. This house is drafty with old windows---a window right near the stove in fact and I cracked it and even cranked it open. No range hood, no new windows or siding. Had the place stucco'd before we even bought the new stove. I'm at a loss as to what is going on.

 

[BrotherBart]

Did that sweep clean the chimney from the top or the bottom?

 

[CountryGal]

Started on the roof. Took off the spark arrestor and cleaned it. Put brushes down the chimney and cleaned. Then came in the house and took off the stove pipe (we have a zig zag up near the ceiling) and cleaned the stove pipe and replaced it. Used a shop vac and cleaned the stove and the stove top opening. They did not take the ceramic blanket out that time but did a week later and replaced it.

 

[LLigetfa]

Plugged spark arrestor? Do you burn paper?

 

[CountryGal]

Yes I use newspaper to start my kindling/fatwood. Same thing I've been doing since we had the stove installed. I have been building top down fires and use the newspaper rolled up and twisted into a knot just like the video.

 

[LLigetfa]

Then stop it. You could use a lifetime supply of Super Cedars for the cost of one chimney sweep called out to clean your spark arrestor. Makes no difference whether you've been using paper all your life. Not all paper is the same. With all the recycle content and clay fillers and heat treated gloss, there are papers that hardly burn and or turn into large black flakes that get trapped in the spark arrestor.

 

[CountryGal]

Well I never use the gloss newspaper inserts, etc. I only use the newspaper portions. Even the dealer told me to ball up newspaper to heat the pipe before I try starting another fire. I am not going to do anything until the sweep comes out Tuesday.

 

[LLigetfa]

Even the dealer told me to ball up newspaper...

Is this the same dealer that is blaming your leafless Pecan tree?

I don't have a spark arrestor on my chimney but if I did I would take it off. When I use paper to start a fire, I can see the big black flakes come out of my chimney and settle on top of the snow.

When you get the other sweep out there, have him show you the cap before he cleans it.

 

[CountryGal]

Even the dealer told me to ball up newspaper...

Is this the same dealer that is blaming your leafless Pecan tree?

I don't have a spark arrestor on my chimney but if I did I would take it off. When I use paper to start a fire, I can see the big black flakes come out of my chimney and settle on top of the snow.

When you get the other sweep out there, have him show you the cap before he cleans it.

I intend to. No disrepect, but this is the same spark arrestor that has been on this stove since October 2006. Three burn seasons and just cleaned. In addition, there is a ceramic blanket in the top of my stove between the fire box and the stove pipe. It was replaced two weeks ago as well. I will not burn a wood stove without a spark arrestor.

 

[LLigetfa]

...this is the same spark arrestor that has been on this stove since October 2006. Three burn seasons and just cleaned...

If a cleaning solves the problem, there is your clue. There has to be a lot of build-up on a chimney before draft is severely affected. Not the same for the spark arrestor.

Since the stove, chimney and cap are the same as three years ago and you use that reasoning to dismiss them, that leaves your wood or your burning style as likely culprits. Wetter wood and/or slow overnight burns can very quickly gunk up your spark arrestor. If you are sure the composition of the newspaper hasn't changed, look at your woodpile.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I don't think your pecan tree is the issue.

If you feel comfortable, you can disconnect your pipe and look up through the top. You should be able to see any obstructions. If the obstruction isn't up, it must be below the chimney in the stove.

For all the advances in stoves, they still are pretty simple critters.

Matt

 

[Highbeam]

I removed my spark arrestor but respect your decision to keep it. That said, if the SA turns out to be the cause of your trouble then you will need to adjust your methods to try and extend the cleaning intervals as much as possible. One such method would be avoiding paper. Let us know what the sweep says. Something has suddenly become plugged or malfunctioned to cause a good running stove to stop running well so it should be easy to find.

Not the tree.

 

[Danno77]

can you remove the spark arrestor to attempt to start the stove? just run it once to see if you have problems? something seems awry, especially with the insulation you mentioned.

 

[CountryGal]

Yes, living in the California desert with a butte right behind the house and creosote bushes everywhere is not a place you want to start a fire. Not to mention my HO insurance probably would frown on having no spark arrestor and cancel my policy if something happened. I just want my wood heat back!!

 

[CountryGal]

can you remove the spark arrestor to attempt to start the stove? just run it once to see if you have problems? something seems awry, especially with the insulation you mentioned.

I don't want hubby on the roof. He fell off a ladder once and broke his ribs. His knees and ankles are bad and it's too dangerous to let him up there again. I'll just have to wait until Tuesday when the sweep comes out. The owner of the company that installed it still hasn't called me back after I emailed him pictures of the tree. He also couldn't find our paperwork in his computer. I faxed it to them and called and spoke with his accountant. Not happy that a company I spent $6700 for a new stove and hearth hasn't been able to pick up the phone again to call me back today. I'm done with them.

 

[BrotherBart]

Don't let anybody talk you out of the knotted paper top down starting method CG. That is absolutely the most soot, ash and creosote free fire starting method I have ever seen in my life.

I used it last year and both chimneys looked like they hadn't even been used that year. This year I got lazy and went to fire starters and brushed a quart of dry soot out of both of them today.

 

[Shari]

Have you checked to see if your air inlets inside your stove are clear?

shari

 

[CountryGal]

Update: The dealer tech called me last evening and apologised for the owner not calling me back. He said he would come out Tuesday and I told him I already have another sweep coming out. I'm having the tree trimmed Monday. My tree trimmer/wood guy kinda laughed about the tree but said he'd trim it for me. I said I want to eliminate any and all possible reasons/excuses for poor draft. I also ordered the super cedars but I don't know if they'll work with a top-down fire. Anybody know? I sure love my TDF because the wood doesn't shift and collapse on itself and it saves opening the door to add the larger splits.

I did a little sleuthing about our local newspaper and it reformatted in August of this year to go to a smaller width but have no idea if they changed paper stock. Most newspapers do use recycled newspaper but even the dealer tech said he didn't think 2-3 fires after they were out here would clog our spark arrestor. Two of my grandchildren have asthma and I can't have this stove smoke in the house when they are here for sure.

Our wood did get some snow blown in the wood shed during a snow storem, but the splits we brought in were off the top rear where there was no snow on the wood. Hope I'll have my answers on Tuesday.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions.

I had a thought last night about the ceramic blanket being sucked up into the stove pipe. When they cleaned on 12/10 with the shop vac it might have pulled it up in there by the vac. Anyway, they cut a new blanket and installed it a week later and used a small metal plate to keep it from lifting.

 

[fossil]

...I also ordered the super cedars but I don't know if they'll work with a top-down fire. Anybody know?

Like a charm. Rick

 

[LLigetfa]

The newspaper doesn't have to do 100% of the blocking. Even smaller bits can collect on the screen and form the scaffold for creosote to build on. Kind of how a spec of dust starts a snowflake to form. Creosote is aften described as black popcorn because of the way it grows on protusions like snowflakes and ice crystals.

It has often been said that it takes half the effort to keep a customer than it takes to win a new one so I really have to wonder why some businesses don't try a little harder. Also, a disgruntled customer is twice as likely to voice displeasure as a happy customer is to sing praises. When that tech heard that onother sweep was coming out, he should have offered a free and quick housecall. A cheap way to keep a customer.

 

[mike1234]

I run a business, and I would go even further. I would say that other businesses very seldom steal my customers, I send them to the other businesses when I give poor customer service. And I usually get your customers when you send them to me by providing poor service.

Your stove dealer should be getting thank you cards from the competition for all the new business.