Snowblower

[Czech]

Yes, you guessed it, we have snow in the forcast for this weekend! Not much, but I guess it is time to get the blower in shape. It's an Ariens, has the Tecumseh 11.5 Snow King motor, been running it from new four years back. About the middle of last year it started hesitating to engage the drive, I needed to rock it back and forth a bit to get it going and it got worse as the year went on. I did check cable adjustments and all looks fine, someone told me there is a friction disk (?) that may need to be replaced? I'm not even sure what I'm looking for at this point or what it is called, otherwise I could look it up on their website. Anyone? I'll get the model number when I get home tonight. Thanks!

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Had the same thing with my Ariens last year....had trouble getting in and out of gear, and then later it was stuck in reverse even though it was in the 5th gear for forward...there are 2 of the discs on mine, and the part was only $10-15 or so....but I didn't know what was wrong with it, so it was about a $80 repair at the dealership. I'm guessing that someone can chime in, and of you are handy you can probably repair yourself. Good luck

 

[DAKSY]

I had a similar problem with mine last year.
I examined the friction discs & couldn't figure out
why the drive - forward & reverse - was giving me
"spotty" engagement...
Turned out there's another shear pin on the drive axle INSIDE the lower housing...
It was mahtzoed, but sometimes the remaining chunk of pin would align with
the hole & everything would work just fine, til it finally fell completely out...
Of course, all this occurred during a 12" snowfall & we all know what cold metal
does to your hands - even WITH mechanics gloves on...
I finally went to some grade 8 1/4-20 bolts & Loctite & the problem was resolved...

 

[LLigetfa]

Check for mouse nests in the drive mechanism.

 

[Gooserider]

You definitely need to do an annual check of the drive box innards - this isn't very difficult - with a mostly empty gas tank, just stand the machine up vertically on the auger housing (yes it will balance there, and no this won't hurt the engine... (If there is a battery in your unit, remove it as well) You can then remove the plate from the bottom of the drive box and look at the innards.

You will see a fair number of shafts with gears and chains, etc. Most of these should have some grease or lubrication with one big exception. This is the drive plate and disk. The way the tranny works is the engine drives a large flat plate which spins at a fixed speed determined by the engine RPM and the ratio of the various pulleys between the engine and the drive plate. Sitting at right angles to the drive plate is the drive disk; this is mounted on a splined shaft that allows it to slide back and forth with respect to the drive plate. The disk has a sort of rubber tire around it's rim, that the clutch brings into contact with the drive plate. The disk connects to the drive wheels via the other drive train parts. Because the angular velocity of the drive plate changes (and reverses direction as you cross it's center) the transmission gear is determined by where on the splined shaft the drive disk is positioned. (This will make more sense when you look at it...)

There are essentially 2-3 major failure issues that this type of transmission experiences - first is the general issue of needing to be lubed, however one should be careful to NOT get lubricant on the drive plate or the tire on the driven disk - this can cause slippage.

Second is the clutch needing adjustment to fully mash the drive disk all the way into firm contact with the drive plate.

Third is that the drive disk is a wear item - that tire wears over time and eventually needs replacement - frequency varies considerably with the use / abuse the machine gets, frequency and amount of snow, etc... It is not a terribly difficult repair, and the part is not very expensive. The disks can go out with little warning, so IMHO it is worth keeping a spare in your parts kit, along with a set of belts and a bunch of drive pins.

Belts can also be an issue - loose or worn belts can cause either weak drive, or anemic snow throwing depending on the problem belt - again check for proper tension.

One other big improvement that I can't reccomend enough on any two stage snowblower is a (broken link removed to http://smllengns.tripod.com/id1.html) - it is one of the best performance boosters I have ever encountered. Pre-Clarence, I did a good job clearing regular snow, but nothing spectacular, and slush or heavy stuff was problematic, especially if I was doing "re-blow" to get stuff that didn't get all the way out of the driveway the first time I moved it. Slush would only go a few feet and I got lots of clogs... Post Clarence, I was getting at least 4-5' greater height and distance with light snow (I was hitting trees that I had never even scared before :coolgrin: ) but the big benefit was with slush, which I was now able to throw about like dry snow would throw pre-kit, and almost totally eliminated clogging.... The kit is basically a set of rubber blades that bolt to the tips of your second stage impeller (the fan) and fill the gap between the blades and the blower housing. This increases the effective tip velocity of the blower, and leaves anything that the screw brings into the impeller no place to go but out the chute...

Hope this helps...

Gooserider

 

[Czech]

Thanks all! Goose, is there a way by looking to tell which part needs the attention? I'm fairly handy and assume it will make more sense once I get it apart, but curious if there are any dead give a ways.

 

[Gooserider]

Well, there are essentially just three major "wear replacement" type parts on an Ariens - the belts, the drive disk, and the shear pins. Most all the rest of the parts should come pretty close to lasting the life of the machine if they are kept properly lubricated, etc.

Shear pins are easy - if they are broken, you need to replace them - not otherwise. There are some folks that suggest they should be pulled once a year and the augers rotated on the shafts to keep them from freezing. I don't bother since I break a fair number every season, and I hit the grease fittings on the augers every year...

The belts should have a tension spec in your owners manual (if you've lost the hard copy, one can be downloaded as a PDF from the Ariens website) but essentially it's the same as any V-belt in terms of wear and condition evaluation.

The drive plate disk is a little hard to describe, but essentially you have a rubber tire on it's outer edge. The tire eventually will develop a bunch of cracks in it and look worn out and glazed. I believe there are pictures in your owners manual, but it's basically a "You'll know it when you see it" sort of item...


I would say to start by checking and adjusting the belts, then verify the clutch adjustment - which will give you a chance to check out the drive disk. Then give it a try, and if you still have drive problems replace the disk.

Gooserider

 

[pybyr]

I've seen some instances where the rubber outer perimeter of that disk is sort of covered with a buildup of metallic "sheen" from the disk that it pushes against, and some combination of a gentle cleaning of the surface of the rubber all around the disk with fine steel wool, and also treatment of the rubber with some belt dressing, can make a world of difference. Also, some times, in addition to the outside cable adjustments, there are also portions of the innards (levers, stop bolts, springs, etc.) that affect the pressure with which the rubber disk meets the metal disk; I have a very early Honda snowblower (early 80s) that was giving me fits until I figured out that a combination of looseness of one interior part and a bit of wear in another added up to a situation in which the rubber disk only barely met the metal one-- some adjustments made it run like a charm ever since. With mine at least, it also seems to be happier if stored left in a "gear" rather than with the mechanism retracted-- I'd have expected the exact opposite- you'd think you would not want the rubber disk sitting in one position under pressure, as it might get a flat spot-- but somehow the mechanism seems more eager to "drive with gusto" when all of the parts have spent the majority of their time (which is when it is parked) in the engaged position. YMMV but hope that's a help.

 

[pybyr]

Just thought of one quick addendum to Goose's initial post about the good idea of doing a pre-season check every year (I don't always get to it depending on other demands on time- but then kick myself for it later when I have to check something in the cold if it acts up)--

-- I do not know the layout in detail on the Ariens, but, regarding the idea of emptying the gas and tipping it up to open and check the drivetrain-- with some yard equipment (and it varies not only by make of equipment but make and model of engine, which can vary even on the same model of equipment)-- I've seen some yard equipment where the engine's crankcase breather-- which is connected by a tube to the air intake-- will allow crankcase oil to run into the carburetor if the engine is tipped a certain way. Again- whether that happens, and what such " tipped a certain way" that'll do it is going to vary a lot by make, model, and even year. But-- it is NO fun if it happens to you; if it happens, you may end up with a spark plug fouled by oil, or a gooed up carbuetor (which may act up later on due to the goo). Even if you don't have those consequences, the engine may be hard to start, and you'll get a billowing cloud of oil smoke when you start it.

So- my advice with any small engine where you're going to need to tilt it to any position that is different from its usual operating orientation is to drain the oil before you tip it. Most people don't change (or check...) their aircooled engines' oil as often as might be wise, anyway, and if you are doing an annual pre-winter check on your snowblower, it wouldn't be a bad time to give it fresh oil, too.

I am a fan of synthetic oil in winter equipment, as it does not get as thick- which can make starting easier, and I figure that it also makes its way into the various engine parts faster since it is not so thick (a huge portion of engine wear occurs at start). No need for "Mobil 1" or pricey stuff-- I just get the large retailers' house brand synthetic oil-- or I sometimes get the 5 Qt. FoMoCo synthetic blend 5w20 in the red jug (pretty economical stuff) on the same shelf. Lubricant is less expensive than parts...

 

[Gooserider]

Just thought of one quick addendum to Goose's initial post about the good idea of doing a pre-season check every year (I don't always get to it depending on other demands on time- but then kick myself for it later when I have to check something in the cold if it acts up)--

-- I do not know the layout in detail on the Ariens, but, regarding the idea of emptying the gas and tipping it up to open and check the drivetrain-- with some yard equipment (and it varies not only by make of equipment but make and model of engine, which can vary even on the same model of equipment)-- I've seen some yard equipment where the engine's crankcase breather-- which is connected by a tube to the air intake-- will allow crankcase oil to run into the carburetor if the engine is tipped a certain way. Again- whether that happens, and what such " tipped a certain way" that'll do it is going to vary a lot by make, model, and even year. But-- it is NO fun if it happens to you; if it happens, you may end up with a spark plug fouled by oil, or a gooed up carbuetor (which may act up later on due to the goo). Even if you don't have those consequences, the engine may be hard to start, and you'll get a billowing cloud of oil smoke when you start it.

So- my advice with any small engine where you're going to need to tilt it to any position that is different from its usual operating orientation is to drain the oil before you tip it. Most people don't change (or check...) their aircooled engines' oil as often as might be wise, anyway, and if you are doing an annual pre-winter check on your snowblower, it wouldn't be a bad time to give it fresh oil, too.

I am a fan of synthetic oil in winter equipment, as it does not get as thick- which can make starting easier, and I figure that it also makes its way into the various engine parts faster since it is not so thick (a huge portion of engine wear occurs at start). No need for "Mobil 1" or pricey stuff-- I just get the large retailers' house brand synthetic oil-- or I sometimes get the 5 Qt. FoMoCo synthetic blend 5w20 in the red jug (pretty economical stuff) on the same shelf. Lubricant is less expensive than parts...

Agreed on changing oil, but the "stand on nose" position is the position that all the Ariens shop manuals I've seen reccomend for putting the machine in when servicing the drive box... Up until Tec folded, Ariens used Tec engines, that were side output shaft engines with the output facing forwards and the recoil on the rear. This put the carb towards the top when the machine is in the "service position" I doubt the oil would be much of a problem. Don't know about other brands, though I think a lot of them also do the stand on nose trick.

FWIW, when I was in our local hardware store the other day, the new Arien's had B&S;engines on them insted of Tecs... Of course if the engine on my 30 yr old Ariens ever dies, I'll probably replace it with one of the "China Clone" engines rather than trying to over-pay for a fancier brand. However while I'm burning a fair bit of oil, the OEM 10hp Tec Snow King still starts first or second pull every time... It has the electric start on it, which I test every once in a while just to make sure it works, but have never actually NEEDED to get the thing started. I keep putting dino oil in it, but mainly because that is probably what it's been running on all it's life (I don't think synthetics even existed when the machine was born) and I know that you can get problems if you switch over late in a machines life.

Gooserider

 

[pybyr]

Agreed on changing oil, but the "stand on nose" position is the position that all the Ariens shop manuals I've seen reccomend for putting the machine in when servicing the drive box... Up until Tec folded, Ariens used Tec engines, that were side output shaft engines with the output facing forwards and the recoil on the rear. This put the carb towards the top when the machine is in the "service position" I doubt the oil would be much of a problem. Don't know about other brands, though I think a lot of them also do the stand on nose trick.

FWIW, when I was in our local hardware store the other day, the new Arien's had B&S;engines on them insted of Tecs... Of course if the engine on my 30 yr old Ariens ever dies, I'll probably replace it with one of the "China Clone" engines rather than trying to over-pay for a fancier brand. However while I'm burning a fair bit of oil, the OEM 10hp Tec Snow King still starts first or second pull every time... It has the electric start on it, which I test every once in a while just to make sure it works, but have never actually NEEDED to get the thing started. I keep putting dino oil in it, but mainly because that is probably what it's been running on all it's life (I don't think synthetics even existed when the machine was born) and I know that you can get problems if you switch over late in a machines life.

Gooserider

Yeah- I was not purporting to know for sure about your model Ariens' ability to be stood on nose- just have seen a number of other situations with this "oil breather surprise" (can't recall if it has included snowblowers) and thought that if someone ends up reading this thread regarding other models, it might be a good point to flag. I had not gone anywhere near shopping for any new item with a small engine in the last couple of years, and so had not happened to catch the news about Tecumseh ceasing engine production-- that _stinks_ -- IMO, many of their engines models have been better designed and made than most of what B&S;has put out in decades.

I have found this place to be a great source for replacement engines for several pieces of power equipment, including my former FrankenTiller (an ancient Troybilt that someone had neglected and abused so badly that few people recognized either make or type of implement)- but which worked fine with a new engine, seals, tines, and gear lube
http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/

BTW, IMO, the whole thing about switching from dino to synthtic "hurting" an engine is just plain 'urban legend'-- I've run syn in old low tech engines of various sorts ranging from a 56 John Deere (in conditions varying from 20 below to 95 summer) to a Ural motorcycle, and detected no problems (I'm not alone in having run it in various things that had a lot of hours on them); the only thing that I could see is that if an engine has had extraordinarrily poor maintenance and has an unusually large amount of sludge build up, the syn may have more of a solvent effect that could loosen up the crud, which could be bad. If you have something with already-failing seals, it seems to leak a bit faster.

 

[LLigetfa]

I use axle stands on the axles and blocks under the auger housing.

 

[Gooserider]

I'm at least the 2nd owner of this machine, and I know it burns / leaks some oil - I will go from full to add on the dipstick about every other storm. I figure given that I don't know for certain just what the history on the engine is, I would just as soon not chance breaking any sludge loose by switching, especially since the engine starts well with the dino-juice in it.

LL, blocking the machine up like that would seem like a lot of extra effort, since you'd have to get down on your hands and knees to work on it, or maybe use a creeper. By standing it up on it's nose, I get the parts where they are easy to get at while standing, and everything is nicely accessible.

Gooserider

 

[LLigetfa]

I'm at least the 2nd owner of this machine, and I know it burns / leaks some oil - I will go from full to add on the dipstick about every other storm. I figure given that I don't know for certain just what the history on the engine is, I would just as soon not chance breaking any sludge loose by switching, especially since the engine starts well with the dino-juice in it.

LL, blocking the machine up like that would seem like a lot of extra effort,...
I get the parts where they are easy to get at while standing, and everything is nicely accessible.

You sit down to split wood but you won't lay on a creeper???

I stand to split wood and lay down to work on machinery. I raise the axles higher than the front so the snow thrower is tilted, not so far that I have to worry about gas pissing out of it. My snow thrower belly pan is L shaped so I don't have to get all the way under it.

 

[Czech]

OK, I'm 'going in', more to follow, hopefully a diy with picts.

 

[keydiver]

When all else fails buy a Honda! Dealt with POS ariens for about 5 years and got rid of it.

 

[Czech]

Yes, Honda's are nice too, the Ariens is the neighborhood blower and has been used flawlessly and hard for 5 years so I cannot argue. I got it apart this last weekend, it was the friction disk, very little rubber left. The parts were $28, put it up on her nose, just need to put it back together now. I better get that done, we got more snow this morning!