So close ...(no punn intended)

[TheIndian]

Hope everyone here doing well. Thank you again for all your advice and help throughout my project.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/stacked-stone-veneer.168325/

Had a bad experience with the install scheduled for today however. Was hoping to post pictures of an F3CB installed but no dice.

It all started when the owner of the Jotul dealer didn't show up today with the two installers he employs. Not a huge deal but was hoping to have owner present like he said he would be when I first purchased stove. But hey,,,as long as his installers did a good job, no harm no fowl. Right?

Next, they bring stove in house and proceed to place each rear corner 6 inches from the two walls. I built the hearth for a corner install and according to Jotul's manual, a minimum of FOUTEEN inches is required from combustible surfaces. Remotely, the owner tried to convince me that 6 inches was sufficient. Yes, I have hardibacker on wall and a stone veneer on top of that (for a total thickness of 1 inch) but still FOURTEEN inches is required as behind hardibacker is paper and wood (so really 13 inches from veneer). Please correct me if I am wrong.

The reason dealer is insisting on 6 inches is ONLY because thirty inches from the corner on the left wall is a window. So when the double-wall stove pipe comes straight up out of the top of the F3CB, then turns 90degrees to go through the same wall on left side of corner, it brings him too close to the window. Now I live almost an hour away from the dealer and I actually made a second trip to see owner face to face to inform him of these dimensions. He assured me everything would be ok. Well, it's not LOL F#&!!%$!!&#!

Said owner ultimately comes to my house today to confirm what should have been confirmed well before today. Previously, he said no initial visit would be necessary. You sure'bout that dealer? He gets on the phone with Jotul to confirm clearances. I said I would be happy to allow a 6inch clearance if I get it in writing from Jotul on company letterhead. Fat chance of that.

His next suggestion is to bring stove pipe up out of stove at a 45 degree to bring pipe back towards corner a little bit (and ultimately away from window), then another 45 to go straight up some and then a 90 to go horizontal and out house. Not knowing enough about how that would affect the draft I did not agree to that.

I paid for stove a while back and was planning on paying for rest of components and install today. Instead, I politely asked them to take stove back and let me know what's next. I didn't want dealer leaving an uninstalled stove here when we agreed on an "installed stove." I can get my money back for stove of course but I really was set on the F3CB. I might have to consider a different stove with lower clearances.

What are your thoughts on a stove pipe that is not vertical and how will this affect the draft? (Can't wait to sever ties with this dealer)

 

[begreen]

I'm not following the issue. It sounds like you want to exit out the wall near the window. Is that correct? AFAIK there is no code that prevents this. It is a sealed chimney system with no possibility of leakage as long as it is installed correctly. Usually the concern is smoke possibly entering via the window. But that is not possible with the chimney following the 10-3-2 rule above the roofline. This is not like a gas or pellet vent terminating at the wall. @bholler @webby3650 do you know of a ruling on this?

 

[bholler]

I'm not following the issue. It sounds like you want to exit out the wall near the window. Is that correct? AFAIK there is no code that prevents this. It is a sealed system with no possibility of leakage as long as it is installed correctly and follows the 10-3-2 rule above the roofline. This is not like a gas or pellet vent terminating at the wall. @bholler @webby3650 do you know of a ruling on this?

You are correct no issue there. But the number of elbows he is proposing could hurt draft and look like crap. And if he is saying less clearance than specified is ok i would not let them install it.

 

[TheIndian]

You are correct no issue there. But the number of elbows he is proposing could hurt draft and look like crap. And if he is saying less clearance than specified is ok i would not let them install it.

Thanks guys.
Will post a picture and maybe a drawing asap.

Looking like crap is one thing. Working like crap is another. I do not want to compromise the draft.

And I agree...I don't want him installing it at this point either but I'll see how long my patience lasts and what his suggestions are.

 

[TheIndian]

So when pipe turns 90 degrees to go out wall on left side, he’ll hit window.

 

[begreen]

So when pipe turns 90 degrees to go out wall on left side, he’ll hit window.


View attachment 227519

I don't see an issue here. As for draft, how tall will the chimney be above the exterior tee? On the inside, using double-wall stove pipe and a pair of 45's instead of a hard 90º elbow will help the draft.

 

[begreen]

The hearth is short in front. Should extend 16" in front of the stove door. Is that a cement floor? If so, it's ok, just keep the carpet 16" away or more.

PS: Any possibility of going straight up through the ceiling with the chimney?

 

[TheIndian]

Chimney will be coming out of house on first floor (near ceiling) then from exterior tee extending above the roof over second floor of house. Three feet above roof?

Can't remember...will have to confirm. ​

Guessing in total chimney will be about 12 feet above exterior tee. I WAS relying on dealer/installer but will now confirm for sure. You thinking a chimney this height is long enough?

As for interior double wall pipe, installer is suggesting two 45's AND a 90 in order to clear window.

I know hearth is short in front but I didn't want it taking up more space in the room. Floor is concrete, yes. And I will be installing porcelain tile so I should be good there.

I would love to go straight up through ceiling but I haven't really considered how that would look on second floor and I don't think wife is open to that idea.

 

[begreen]

As long as the thimble is correctly installed I don't think this is an issue, but have them cite the applicable code that they think prevents the chimney from exiting near the window.

If you did go straight up the chimney pipe needs to be chased (boxed in) so what one sees is a bumpout in the wall or room corner. If in a closet it is not noticeable.

 

[TheIndian]

As long as the thimble is correctly installed I don't think this is an issue, but have them cite the applicable code that they think prevents the chimney from exiting near the window.

That's the issue...the window is physically in the way of the thimble when the stove is installed using the proper clearances.

 

[TheIndian]

Question...do double wall pipe elbows only come in 45's and 90's? Seems to be from what I find online.

 

[webby3650]

Why not put a rear heat shield on it and move it back into the corner? Looks like it would clear the window then, no?

 

[TheIndian]

Why not put a rear heat shield on it and move it back into the corner? Looks like it would clear the window then, no?

Thx but I believe it already has a built-in rear heat shield. Clearances are still 14" for corner install. Will check but I pretty sure I correct on the built-in rear heat shield.

 

[webby3650]

I didn’t see that it was an F-3, you are right.

 

[TheIndian]

Hate to look at other stoves because everything I did was built around the F3CB but I might have to look at others. I see that a lot of people are unhappy with the F100. Is it an operator issue or is Jotul when it comes to the F100?

 

[webby3650]

Hate to look at other stoves because everything I did was built around the F3CB but I might have to look at others. I see that a lot of people are unhappy with the F100. Is it an operator issue or is Jotul when it comes to the F100?

It’s so little, it’s almost useless...
Did you look into the castine at all?

 

[TheIndian]

It’s so little, it’s almost useless...
Did you look into the castine at all?

Is that the same as the F400?

 

[webby3650]

Is that the same as the F400?

Yes

 

[TheIndian]

I did look at it, thanks for the suggestion. I will revisit it but at first glance I think it is too big for my hearth pad.

 

[webby3650]

I did look at it, thanks for the suggestion. I will revisit it but at first glance I think it is too big for my hearth pad.

The F-3 also appears too big for that pad.

 

[TheIndian]

The F-3 also appears too big for that pad.

The F3CB will fit on the pad...close to the front edge of the pad but it will fit while maintaining the proper clearances. And since the floor around pad will be porcelain tile, it's ok.

What do you guys think about the draft if the stove pipe exits stove at a 45...extends up a foot or two towards corner of walls (enough to clear window) and then a 90 out to left side wall? One 45, one 90.

 

[begreen]

That's the issue...the window is physically in the way of the thimble when the stove is installed using the proper clearances.

OK, that is important info we lacked. The thimble should fit ok between standard spaced studs. Looking at your prior thread which shows the exposed studs it looks like the thimble should fit, but we lack measurements. Can you post a simple sketch of what the problem is?

My experience with the F3CB was that it was fairly forgiving with a short chimney. We had it connected rear-vent to an elbow and then up about ~13ft. It drafted fine. Sounds like the main issue is the thimble and not the stove choice as long as you are not trying to heat a big area with it 24/7.

 

[Ludlow]

I put a direct vent gas fireplace in my game room corner. I took out a big window and put in a much smaller window to free up the corner. What is the house sided with?

Or you can go old school and put a piece of sheet metal in the sash and go out with single wall........(NOT!)

 

[TheIndian]

See next post with explanation...

OK, that is important info we lacked. The thimble should fit ok between standard spaced studs. Looking at your prior thread which shows the exposed studs it looks like the thimble should fit, but we lack measurements. Can you post a simple sketch of what the problem is?

My experience with the F3CB was that it was fairly forgiving with a short chimney. We had it connected rear-vent to an elbow and then up about ~13ft. It drafted fine. Sounds like the main issue is the thimble and not the stove choice as long as you are not trying to heat a big area with it 24/7.

 

[TheIndian]

Ok, so stove would be positioned at the letter “A” that I marked on drawing. With stove maintaining proper clearances from corner walls and stove pipe coming straight up vertically out of stove then turning 90 degrees to go horizontally out left wall, thimble will hit the window...where I marked drawing with the letter “X.”

I guess the “vertical” stove pipe will now need to be tilted back towards corner using at least one 45? Your thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated...

This is the exact drawing I showed the dealer the day I made a SECOND trip to his store to confirm everything would work. He assured me it would. Sorry to vent.