So What's the Big Deal

[littlesmokey]

I've been working on a project for another program and needed information about standards on pellets, so I looked at the PFI ratings. Of the five criteria Three are different based on their now four categories, density, ash as a % of weight, amount of allowed ash (.50% premium, 1.0, 2.0, 6.0% to utility) and moisture from 6% to 10%. Now I am sure the Utility grade is intended for commercial use and is not part of the 95% of pellets produced. So basically the differences for stove use are density from 40-46 per cubic foot with standard pellets allowed at 38 lbs/cf, no difference between premium and super premium and ash and moisture as above. There is no discussion of Btu's per pound, and a blanket standard for chlorine. Super premiums are supposed to contain no bark or other " contaminents". Here is their statement on the Website:



Grades of Pellets
Pellet mills produce two grades of fuel – Premium and Standard. The only difference between the two is ash content. Standard grade fuel is usually up to 3% ash content, while premium grade is less than 1 percent. This difference is a result of the pellet contents. Standard pellets are derived from materials that produce more residual ash, such as tree bark or agricultural residues. Premium pellets are usually produced from hardwood or softwood sawdust containing no tree bark. Premium pellets make up 95 percent of current pellet production and can be burned in all appliances. Standard pellets should only be burned in appliances designed to burn the higher ash content pellets.



Either they have not updated their text, or there is a lot of pressure on them to try and make a distinction. I know for many of us the extra cost for something that says Super is not balanced by the added costs. If you can save a dollar or two per bag and get a drop in performance of less than 10%. aren't we saving money to buy the better deal? It may mean adjusting your stove to burn differently, but according to the institute all pellets should burn in all stoves, a little simplistic, but the point is, we don't all have to pay for the premium when the regular will do fine.

 

[pelletizer]

I will tell you one thing "Curran" pellets suck no matter what their Premium pellet bags say. Time for a Curran Premium Pellet "bag" adjustment!

 

[krooser]

My son't buddy is hauling paper mill sludge to a pellet mill in eastern Wisconsin... I would THINK they are making commercial grade pellets from that stuff.

 

[schmeg]

Regardless of numbers and ratings, my heating experience is effected by different brands of pellets, and it all starts with the fiber used.
This year I admitted to myself that I heat with pellets not for savings (there is very little savings right now if any), but I heat with them
because of the comfort.

 

[jtakeman]

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/48397/

New standards for consumer grade pellets soon to be released. Supposed to assist in the selection of pellets matching the appliance(stove). I have emailed PFI for there new standards values. No reply yet, I am sure they will release something soon.

Only info I could find is available is here.

http://www.pelletheat.org/2/quality.html

On the bags of certain brands I have seen Ultra premium, Super Premium and Premium. Not sure if this applies to there new standards. I have seen <.3%, <.5% and <1.0% for ash contents.

Cheers

 

[hossthehermit]

Regardless of numbers and ratings, my heating experience is effected by different brands of pellets, and it all starts with the fiber used.
This year I admitted to myself that I heat with pellets not for savings (there is very little savings right now if any), but I heat with them
because of the comfort.

For me it's the comfort and the support for the local economy, and the fact that it's environmentally friendly and renewable. At least that's what the Old Gray Mare tells me. Who am I to argue?

 

[imacman]

My son't buddy is hauling paper mill sludge to a pellet mill in eastern Wisconsin... I would THINK they are making commercial grade pellets from that stuff.

Krooser, any way to find out what the pellet company name, so we can be aware of what might be in their product, IF it ends up as bags of pellets?

 

[littlesmokey]

Apparently my original question was not very clear. The standards seem based only on certain factors (convenient for the makers) and really don't make a lot of difference, except the eccentricities of the individual stoves(not brand or make/model). I sort of think of it like deciding what regular gas is better. All of us have to run it through the stove to see how it works for us, your experience may be completely different from mine.

 

[jtakeman]

Most pellets you see available with or with out the PFI labeling. is generally premium grade or higher. There is no standard or regular grade available in my area in any large quanity. I found some 100% Oak pellets last year. N/A this year. Are you saying you can get standard grade pellets in your area that are as good as the premium grade?

IMO Standard grade pellets with 3% ash content will run in the average stove, But the stove owner would go nuts with the cleanings. 3X the amount of ash is 3X the amount of cleanings to do.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Most pellets you see available with or with out the PFI labeling. is generally premium grade or higher. There is no standard or regular grade available in my area in any large quanity. I found some 100% Oak pellets last year. N/A this year. Are you saying you can get standard grade pellets in your area that are as good as the premium grade?

IMO Standard grade pellets with 3% ash content will run in the average stove, But the stove owner would go nuts with the cleanings. 3X the amount of ash is 3X the amount of cleanings to do.

You need one huge honking puffer on most stoves to burn most standard grade pellets.

Something along the lines that krooser provided a picture of a while ago.

Edited to add a reference to krooser's tiny tiny fan picture.

 

[HD41]

Is the 3% ash spec by weight or volume. If it is by weight it would be 1.2 lbs of ash from a 40 lb bag. Has anyone actually measured weight and/or volume from the ash pan after burning a bag of pellets. Of course some ash is going to get lost, accumulating in the stove and exhaust tubes. Just cleaned my stove so I don't have any ash to weigh or anything that weighs in oz's.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

It is by weight.

 

[pelletizer]

No one has noticed my Curran pellet reply no matter no one but a few ever reply to me anyway. (Pellet snob thing maybe! have I been labeled hey it happens a lot on this site) Curran is in fact sending me a prepaid box to send a 40 lb bag of pellets back to them so they can take a look at them.

 

[jtakeman]

Is the 3% ash spec by weight or volume. If it is by weight it would be 1.2 lbs of ash from a 40 lb bag. Has anyone actually measured weight and/or volume from the ash pan after burning a bag of pellets. Of course some ash is going to get lost, accumulating in the stove and exhaust tubes. Just cleaned my stove so I don't have any ash to weigh or anything that weighs in oz's.

Yes, Check this thread.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/42511/

I didn't sweep my vent every time but I did tap the pipes down and collected the ash from the tee cap. FYI

jay

 

[littlesmokey]

Don't know where the 3% came from. The ratings say : .5%super premium, 1.0%premium, 2.0% standard, 6%utility. That is by weight. I am not sure the issue in cleaning, what another 20 seconds with the vac for a standard pellet? That's .8lbs total ash per bag. If you are able to buy them for a dollar or two cheaper a bag, seems like a deal to me. If premiums are at $4.49/bag and a no-name standard is $2.49 and they burn in your stove, seems like a no brainer to me. That's like every fourth bag free. More than pays for the extra cleaning.

For three years I burned an unrated/tested regional pellet. Burned at the top of the game, just a plain-jane product. I was very happy and felt fortunate I could save as much as I did over the national brands. Now I understand why they were in no hurray to get certified. When you sell 100% of your product and don't have to pay for someone else's approval, why pay?

I now burn a local product, don't know if they are certified, as the early product was in a plain clear wrapper. Works great in my stove and they are only a couple of miles away.

 

[HD41]

Is the 3% ash spec by weight or volume. If it is by weight it would be 1.2 lbs of ash from a 40 lb bag. Has anyone actually measured weight and/or volume from the ash pan after burning a bag of pellets. Of course some ash is going to get lost, accumulating in the stove and exhaust tubes. Just cleaned my stove so I don't have any ash to weigh or anything that weighs in oz's.

Yes, Check this thread.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/42511/

I didn't sweep my vent every time but I did tap the pipes down and collected the ash from the tee cap. FYI

jay

I missed this thread but I'm confused, Smokey the Bear said measure was by weight and the thread seems to show measurements by volume. This is an excellent bit of work giving a very good comparison of the quality of various pellets. Would measurement by weight make it difficult for all but the very worst pellets meet specs.

 

[jtakeman]

Don't know where the 3% came from. The ratings say : .5%super premium, 1.0%premium, 2.0% standard, 6%utility. That is by weight. I am not sure the issue in cleaning, what another 20 seconds with the vac for a standard pellet? That's .8lbs total ash per bag. If you are able to buy them for a dollar or two cheaper a bag, seems like a deal to me. If premiums are at $4.49/bag and a no-name standard is $2.49 and they burn in your stove, seems like a no brainer to me. That's like every fourth bag free. More than pays for the extra cleaning.

For three years I burned an unrated/tested regional pellet. Burned at the top of the game, just a plain-jane product. I was very happy and felt fortunate I could save as much as I did over the national brands. Now I understand why they were in no hurray to get certified. When you sell 100% of your product and don't have to pay for someone else's approval, why pay?

I now burn a local product, don't know if they are certified, as the early product was in a plain clear wrapper. Works great in my stove and they are only a couple of miles away.

The 3% can from me Oops. You are 100% correct it is only 2% for standard grades. I need to proof read before I post.

Sounds like you are getting a heck of a deal. I am just wondering if you are getting something very close to premuim grade pellets. Only because you say they are not labeled.

Care to do a test for us?

 

[jtakeman]

Is the 3% ash spec by weight or volume. If it is by weight it would be 1.2 lbs of ash from a 40 lb bag. Has anyone actually measured weight and/or volume from the ash pan after burning a bag of pellets. Of course some ash is going to get lost, accumulating in the stove and exhaust tubes. Just cleaned my stove so I don't have any ash to weigh or anything that weighs in oz's.

Yes, Check this thread.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/42511/

I didn't sweep my vent every time but I did tap the pipes down and collected the ash from the tee cap. FYI

jay

I missed this thread but I'm confused, Smokey the Bear said measure was by weight and the thread seems to show measurements by volume. This is an excellent bit of work giving a very good comparison of the quality of various pellets. Would measurement by weight make it difficult for all but the very worst pellets meet specs.

Volume is for visual only. Chart and 2nd post has the weights. Personally I only care about the overall heat from the pellets. I was asked by a few members to measure and compare weights. I would also say that I would burn all but one brand in the test. The Infernos. Because they did not have a good heat number. I would burn the lower heat in the shoulders and the higher heat in the cold because I have a basement install an need to be a little picky. The Inferno's were also out of spec by ash weight. Just over 1%. But as with all pellets this could have been a bad batch. Always best to do your own test with the brands you are interested in.

 

[HD41]

Nice work, I failed to scroll to the chart at the bottom

 

[jtakeman]

No one has noticed my Curran pellet reply no matter no one but a few ever reply to me anyway. (Pellet snob thing maybe! have I been labeled hey it happens a lot on this site) Curran is in fact sending me a prepaid box to send a 40 lb bag of pellets back to them so they can take a look at them.

I noticed. I tried them and though they were OK. I would not write home to mama about them though. I would burn them in the shoulders. I just wonder if you got a bad batch. I hope they get you fixed up and take care of the issue.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Don't know where the 3% came from. The ratings say : .5%super premium, 1.0%premium, 2.0% standard, 6%utility. That is by weight. I am not sure the issue in cleaning, what another 20 seconds with the vac for a standard pellet? That's .8lbs total ash per bag. If you are able to buy them for a dollar or two cheaper a bag, seems like a deal to me. If premiums are at $4.49/bag and a no-name standard is $2.49 and they burn in your stove, seems like a no brainer to me. That's like every fourth bag free. More than pays for the extra cleaning.

For three years I burned an unrated/tested regional pellet. Burned at the top of the game, just a plain-jane product. I was very happy and felt fortunate I could save as much as I did over the national brands. Now I understand why they were in no hurray to get certified. When you sell 100% of your product and don't have to pay for someone else's approval, why pay?

I now burn a local product, don't know if they are certified, as the early product was in a plain clear wrapper. Works great in my stove and they are only a couple of miles away.

The 3% can from me Oops. You are 100% correct it is only 2% for standard grades. I need to proof read before I post.

Sounds like you are getting a heck of a deal. I am just wondering if you are getting something very close to premuim grade pellets. Only because you say they are not labeled.

Care to do a test for us?

3% WAS PFI's ash content limit for standard pellets not that long ago according to many stove manuals and the only difference between pellet grades was the ash content, like every group they like to muck around with things. Can you say moving target, "Moving target", I knew you could.

 

[littlesmokey]

Don't know where the 3% came from. The ratings say : .5%super premium, 1.0%premium, 2.0% standard, 6%utility. That is by weight. I am not sure the issue in cleaning, what another 20 seconds with the vac for a standard pellet? That's .8lbs total ash per bag. If you are able to buy them for a dollar or two cheaper a bag, seems like a deal to me. If premiums are at $4.49/bag and a no-name standard is $2.49 and they burn in your stove, seems like a no brainer to me. That's like every fourth bag free. More than pays for the extra cleaning.

For three years I burned an unrated/tested regional pellet. Burned at the top of the game, just a plain-jane product. I was very happy and felt fortunate I could save as much as I did over the national brands. Now I understand why they were in no hurray to get certified. When you sell 100% of your product and don't have to pay for someone else's approval, why pay?

I now burn a local product, don't know if they are certified, as the early product was in a plain clear wrapper. Works great in my stove and they are only a couple of miles away.

The 3% can from me Oops. You are 100% correct it is only 2% for standard grades. I need to proof read before I post.

Sounds like you are getting a heck of a deal. I am just wondering if you are getting something very close to premuim grade pellets. Only because you say they are not labeled.

Care to do a test for us?

3% WAS PFI's ash content limit for standard pellets not that long ago according to many stove manuals and the only difference between pellet grades was the ash content, like every group they like to muck around with things. Can you say moving target, "Moving target", I knew you could.

Are you suggesting there is no difference or importance to the rating? The label is a marketing scheme?

 

[jtakeman]

Don't know where the 3% came from. The ratings say : .5%super premium, 1.0%premium, 2.0% standard, 6%utility. That is by weight. I am not sure the issue in cleaning, what another 20 seconds with the vac for a standard pellet? That's .8lbs total ash per bag. If you are able to buy them for a dollar or two cheaper a bag, seems like a deal to me. If premiums are at $4.49/bag and a no-name standard is $2.49 and they burn in your stove, seems like a no brainer to me. That's like every fourth bag free. More than pays for the extra cleaning.

For three years I burned an unrated/tested regional pellet. Burned at the top of the game, just a plain-jane product. I was very happy and felt fortunate I could save as much as I did over the national brands. Now I understand why they were in no hurray to get certified. When you sell 100% of your product and don't have to pay for someone else's approval, why pay?

I now burn a local product, don't know if they are certified, as the early product was in a plain clear wrapper. Works great in my stove and they are only a couple of miles away.

The 3% can from me Oops. You are 100% correct it is only 2% for standard grades. I need to proof read before I post.

Sounds like you are getting a heck of a deal. I am just wondering if you are getting something very close to premuim grade pellets. Only because you say they are not labeled.

Care to do a test for us?

3% WAS PFI's ash content limit for standard pellets not that long ago according to many stove manuals and the only difference between pellet grades was the ash content, like every group they like to muck around with things. Can you say moving target, "Moving target", I knew you could.

Are you suggesting there is no difference or importance to the rating? The label is a marketing scheme?

I wonder how much cost the PFI label adds to the end product? I have burned more than a few brands of premium grade pellets that did not have a PFI label. They were just as good as a premium pellet with the PFI label.

Saving money these days is tough. If I could save $2.00 a bag and these pellets were available(must have good heat). Then hell yeah. I see where the "whats the big deal" comes from. I agree the pellets would be in my stove and keeping my house warm. The main reason I bought my multifuel stove was to burn the lesser grade pellets and multifuels. To save money. But the lesser grade pellets are not readily available near me. So what if you need to empty the ash pan a few days earlier or the ash vac gets a used a bit more. I don't see an issue if the stove can handle it. I would warn the less pellet snobish and the fancy stove. Not to try this, It could get messy for you.

I'm in!