Still issues with wood stove

[04HemiRam2500]

I have read a little of the stickie son this forum about new people burning wood. I apologize to repost an old discussion but I am still having issues. I can not get the stove to stay hot for long. I got dry wood now I resplit every piece and tested thee inside and all is 17% or lower. I do have a large house so I need the 30 to keep hot for I while no matter what I try air open all the way half way closed wait for fire to get really hot the stove will peak at 650 and then it will not stay that temp for very long maybe 60 to 90 min max. It got cold outside last night in the teens but I can not keep this thing hot. I am also having problems with getting alot of coals in the firebox. I will get alot of coals even when I rake them to the front there will be small ashes on the top of the coals but still hot.


I know that every one here told me that it was my wood and it was. but I still can not help but think that the furnace would heat better than this thing. I am sitting near it now and had fresh wood in it and it is only 500 degrees. I need 650 or more to keep my house hot. I am hoping someone here can help cause again I am going through wood like mad and not even heating the house will. This is my last attempt before I over kill my budget again and buy the furnace.

Also, I even bought the bigger blow available for the stove and still no luck.

 

[mellow]

How did you all of a sudden get dry wood?

 

[Grisu]

Don't know your previous posts so sorry if those questions are redundant:

How tall is your chimney? What type? Diameter?
How full do you load the stove? On hot coals or cold start?
What is the setting of the air control? When do you start closing it? How fast do you close it? What is the final setting?

 

[Holiday]

If you need 650 at all times it will be tough and not a normal burn cycle or the way wood burns. That is usually the peak but it slowly decreases over the course of the burn. Too many coals building up is what happens when you need heat and try reloading too soon multiple times. I ran into that when I just started as I run a fairly small stove. Opening the air more near the end of the burn before reloading helps burn these down.

 

[Grisu]

If you need 650 at all times it will be tough and not a normal burn cycle or the way wood burns. That is usually the peak but it slowly decreases over the course of the burn. Too many coals building up is what happens when you need heat and try reloading too soon multiple times. I ran into that when I just started as I run a fairly small stove. Opening the air more near the end of the burn before reloading helps burn these down.

Good point. If you need the NC-30 to stay above 600 F all the time it is probably best to invest money in improving insulation and not in another furnace.

 

[begreen]

That was my thought too but then I dug back and found that this is a 3000 sq ft home. It could be that it is too much home to heat with one stove. Especially if it is leaky or poorly insulated. One stove will help reduce oil consumption, but it may not eliminate it when the weather is cold and windy.

 

[Jags]

It would be a tough run for a single stove to handle 3000sqft. The NC30 is a heck of a heater, but it ain't gonna maintain 80,000 btu for hours on end. It simply won't swallow that much wood.

 

[BrotherBart]

Don't buy a furnace rated to just heat 2,200 sq. ft. Like that stove is and does.

 

[laynes69]

I hate to say this, but a furnace with a single 8" outlet won't be enough to heat a home that large, especially one that's not up to par. If you went the furnace route, you would need something with a much higher btu rating, a larger firebox, and a large plenum opening with a strong blower. Like mentioned, if your pushing the stove that hard and it's not keeping up, then 2 stoves, or attention to the house needs to be done. We had the same issues the first year, couldn't get the house over 68 in the 20's. I blamed the furnace, but in reality my house was losing heat faster than furnace could produce. I airsealed the attic, and we kept the house at 70 when it was -5*. Not trying to steer you away from the englander, but I would almost guarantee if that 30 can't touch it, placing a furnace in the basement while depending on a 8" outlet, just won't cut it.

 

[begreen]

Don't buy a furnace rated to just heat 2,200 sq. ft. Like that stove is and does.

Yes, it's going to take something like a Caddy, Max Caddy or a big Yukon Husky and a lot of wood to heat the barn. If you go this route be sure it's ducted correctly with backdraft dampers in the plenums.
(broken link removed to http://www.psg-distribution.com/product.aspx?CategoId=16&Id=577&Page=description)
http://www.yukon-eagle.com/FURNACES/HUSKYOILWOODGASWOOD/tabid/55/Default.aspx

Hemi, have you had an energy audit done on the house to see if there are some less expensive sealing and insulation options? That could potentially have a quicker payback. The savings are year round if you also use a lot of AC in the summer.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Well here is the thing and I might have found the problem. It is in my new addition that was built and I have yet to finish insulation also my stove is facing toward the old side of the house where the new edition connects to it. Where it connects there are stairs that go down into the garage and this wall has no door walls or insulation yet. I bet I am losing alot of heta for a whole wall letting cold air from the garage get into the house.

I bet that is part of my problem. Also, when it is in the 30s outside I can get the new edition to 77 it is just when it got 12 yesterday I could not get it to heat. up again if it is that cold out with a leaky garage door that might be the problem will fix tomorrow.


The other problem I am having which is HUGE is how do3 you get overnight burn times. When I close the air inlet I get the tubes going great but then die off in an hour? I am thinking that this could be draft issues again or no? Know that I know my wood is dry and I checked it with the meter. IT is good to note that because I can not get overnight times I woke up to the house cold on that 12 degree morning and this is why I need the stove to run really hard. That and the wall is probably my issue.

How do you get the stove to heat your house though if the entire thing gets cold like what happen to me this is why I kept reloading.

Lastly, I thought that the epa burn tubes save you wood by keeping a steady large heat for a long time no?

Lastly, I know this is rated for 2200 square feet and my house is just under 3000 2950 but I have seen stoves with the same size fire box be rated for 3000 so I think my expectations are okay I just need to fix a few things to my house and maybe even put a through the wall fan to help move heat to the other side.

 

[Charles1981]

Is your house 3000sq feet? If you indeed have areas not insulated then that is one problem. If you are trying to heat 3000sq feet with that stove you have another problem. Combine a good stove with areas of poor or no insulation and an extra 1000sq feet to heat and you unfortunately have a series of conditions that will prevent you from heating that house with the stove.

Even if you get your insulation deal squared away with, you are still left with a situation that doesn't allow for that stove to do what you want it to.

And your stove is rated to 2200sq feet (in ideal situations). Meaning it isn't false advertising but even those who are heating the maximum can and often do find that stove doesn't quite live up to implied specifications. You really are asking to much.

Insulate the house appropriately as any area without insulation is going to become a serious heat loss source and then consider a second stove if possible. Or a new stove, but for that square footage you are looking at a top of the line model... Blaze King - King, VC-Defiant 2n1 (although i think most would stray you away from this model), amongst all the other brands with 4+ cuft fire boxes and a catalyst.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

I dont know about that I am at 2950 sq feet and I do not mind it cooler I think having an entire wall opened to an unheated garage allows me not to get the heat to the other side of the house. I also need to get the over night burn better. I guess what I am asking is how do I work the stove for my application.

Also, 1400 square feet of the 2950 is a second story with our bedrooms and we like it cooler up there so once the heat gets over to the house it will naturally rise upstairs and leave the room doors open I am good. So technically for first floor is only 1900 square feet which is well within the stove capabilities. I am think I need to realize that cold air coming into the room can really mess me up and I need to improve the house. Since I like it cool;er upstairs I think I will be okay.

Also, charles 1981 I do not want a cat stove just my preference.

 

[Grisu]

I think that thread here has lots of good advice on how to run a stove the most efficient way. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/fireplace-insert-burn-techniques-best-practices.117055/
Check it our and see how your procedure may differ. If not there may be other problem(s).

 

[Charles1981]

You only have one option then and that is to focus on insulation.

Running that stove hot means you don't get as long a burn time. But you have to run it hot to get the heat you need. By insulating you may be able to not lose as much heat and therefore be able to possibly run the stove on a lower air setting thereby not requiring you to reload earlier. Many that achieve overnight burns end up with a similar degree of coals, but a stove that is 250-300 in the morning is still able to provide usable warmth to a well insulated house. That same bed of coals and stove temperature provides minimal to no heating value if you have a poorly insulated house.

And while this is debatable I still think a cast iron stove retains and releases far more warmth long after the coals are dying then a steel stove that cools down very rapidly.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

That is what I am hoping it is charles. Again when it is high 30 low 40s it will heat entire house well almost too well.

What about my thinking that since the first floor is only 1900 sq ft is that logical top think heat will rise or no?

 

[Charles1981]

Not very well and certainly not until your insulation concerns are addressed. It is fairly well accepted that you should never expect a stove to adequately heat a second floor without an exceptional amount of detail to ventilation being applied. If you want to heat a second floor you have to move that cold air that is already upstairs and push it down towards the stove forcing the hot air to rise.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Wont the cold air settle down and hot air rise etc..

 

[Charles1981]

You need appropriate ventilation. It really won't do it that efficiently on it's own.

I have a basement stove. Without multiple fans and in the installation of floor registers in just the right places the upstairs doesn't get above 65. With the fans and registers I can get it 73-74 upstairs. When the power goes out I am in the position again where you just have to accept 65 degrees upstairs because the ventilation is that much of a driving force. It won't occur passively.

I am also heating 1800sq feet with a stove rated to heat 1800 sq feet (900 upstairs, 900 downstairs).

If you are trying to heat upstairs then you are again left with a stove far too small for what you want it.

I would say you are asking far to much to adequately heat the upstairs to anything above 62-65 degrees especially when it is 11 degrees outside.

You have to tighten up your insulation and even then I still think you don't have anywhere near the heating capacity in that stove to heat your house appropriately. Even my stove struggles to heat the upstairs this week and it was 7 degrees here in Michigan with 30mph winds (-10 to -15 degree windchill). I could only heat upstairs to 69 degrees (instead of normal 73-74) but that is about as cold as it ever gets here and again my stove is rated for my house size and I still sometimes wish I had gone with the larger defiant.

 

[rideau]

As you heat with wood, everything in your home heats. Once the home is warm, it takes less heat to maintain a comfortable temperature.

I think you will find the stove far less frustrating once you get a door on that stairwell to the garage, and h walls insulated. At the present time, you are losing so much heat to the outside that your home never gets the chance to really warm up. Insulated, you should be able to get he home up to temp, then let he stove cruise at a reasonable temperature and keep the temperature of the home fairly stable. When you are doing that, your burn times will be a bit longer. Concentrate on fixing the home, because you can't fix the burning problem until you do.

You'll likely be far happier once you make hose improvements.

 

[Holiday]

Again when it is high 30 low 40s it will heat entire house well almost too well.

That's exactly how my house is, old house that isn't the most efficient. Above 0 is zero effort, takes nothing to warm the place up. Down around 20 is perfect, around 0 I heat the place up in the morning with the furnace and the stove keeps up from there. Trying to warm up from cold takes a lot of firing. But I also don't worry about the overnight burn, have natural gas.

 

[Charles1981]

Yea, if you have a furnace its better to think of the stove as supplemental in heating. The furnace is probably better suited to assist in heating your second floor when necessary and maintaining heat in the morning before you wake up to reload.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

So, is it better for me to leave the air inlet open as long as I do not over fire? Also, with a through the wall fan is heat cooled when it moves laterally? Again I am looking for 62 to 65 upstairs max which is perfect for me.

I think the through the wall fan will help because there is a 6 foot opening to the old part of the house where all the heat needs to go through to heat that side of the house? So, if I put a through the wall fan through the other side of the wall that also connects to the old part of the house I will have heat on both ends of the old part of the house which is huge. Let me now what you think thanks all.

 

[04HemiRam2500]

Speaking about the furnace the cold air return is in my new edition if I turn just the fan on does that help move heat around? I think not since I will pull heat down then around the house.

 

[Grisu]

So, is it better for me to leave the air inlet open as long as I do not over fire?

I am not sure where you got that from but a certain "no" is the answer. An EPA-stove throws more heat with the air closed or almost closed. Leaving the air open means your heat goes up the flue. Thus, you do that for the first (10) minutes and then you start to close down the air stepwise. If you can close it completely, with nice secondaries and stovetop in the 600 to 700 F range you are good. It is also ok to leave it slightly open if your draft is not that great; every setup is a little different. The only other adjustment would then be to load as much seasoned hardwood in the firebox as possible. Maybe leave an inch gap to the burn tubes; otherwise, stuff it full.